I Have 6 Questions....

[JoshuaFKon]

Hello! :)

I am researching Mormonism, and I have 6 questions ....Looking for members of the LDS church.

It won't let me post all the questions with the references here (too long)...So I posted them online at www.allaboutjoshua.com or http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/questions

I just want to say that I'm not trying to attack anyone, I am trying to look at the issues from both sides so I though I'd post here to get some Mormon perspective to some questions I have seen raised on anti-mormon sites.

I understand that if you just glanced at the Bible it too would seem unbelievable, so I am trying to have an open mind.

Thank you very much for your help,

God bless,

Josh B)

Short description of questions: (but please see site for full questions and sources)

(1) If the Book of Mormon is true then, considering the way it was "translated" why have there been any changes made to it?

(2) If The Book of Mormon is true then why does it seem to copy the KJV of the Bible? Even so far as to copy the words that were added by the translators, and errors in the Hebrew?

(3) Why is there no archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon's claims? And why does the evidence seem to contradict it? E.g. the animals, crops, and metalworking.

(4) If Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then why did some of his prophecies fail to come to pass?

(5) if the other scriptures (e.g. The Book of Abraham etc.) are true why do they seem to contradict each other?

(6) And how do you explain that the Book of Abraham does not read as Joseph Smith claimed it did?

[BenRaines]

Joshua, instead of making blanket accusations, or points of discussion how about provided the conflicts that you after so much study on your part have found. You name six questions. Please provide the inconsistencies that you have found. Don't just make a claim and expect it to be defended. Show us the evidence of the things you find wrong.

Ben Raines

[Guest ApostleKnight]

1) Why does the Bible contradict itself?

2) Why has it gone through so many translations?

3) Why don't archeological finds support many Bible accounts?

4) Why does the New Testament copy the Old Testament, including the errors in the Hebrew?

I could go on, but I think you see how ridiculous such a list of questions becomes. Take BenRaine's advice...give us specific problems you've had with LDS scripture, not just a laundry-list from your local anti-Mormon pamphlet distribution hub.

[JoshuaFKon]

First of All,

I will not defend Christianity because (1) I am not fishished researching it. (2) Mormons also believe in the Bible so pointing out perceived problems is mearly a way to avoid answering my questions.

And Secondly, I am not making "blanket accusations" if you would go to the site: "http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/questions" like I asked you to...you would see my sources and more detailed questions.

Thank you, :)

Josh B)

[Guest ApostleKnight]

I didn't ask you to defend Christianity. I was being facetious to show how pointless such questions are. They don't change the fact that millions have faith rooted in those scriptures (Bible and Book of Mormon). I'm not avoiding your questions. They're not questions. They're lectures phrased as a question, but there's no question mark at the end, there's an exclamation point. I don't have time for such nonsense (having seen it a thousand times before, yeah, I did visit your website).

Why do such "concerns" not concern me? Because I believe in a God who calls living prophets and gives them continuing revelations that may or may not echo previous revelations. That's why. You can't argue with that using citations and translation comparisons and scientific test-tubes. All you can do is say, "I think that guy's way off." That's your prerogative. And I have mine.

Keep studying, but most important, pray about it. God is the one Source you must consult in your quest for understanding.

[EricM]

Hello again, Josh (I saw you on Yahoo! Answers). I don't know if you've checked yet or not, but I linked you to FAIR, the LDS apologetics website. The issues you've listed have been discussed there (and also here) countless times, and it wouldn't take you long to search them out. If you truly are sincere in your search for these answers, then you should really visit these websites:

http://www.fairlds.org - The main website

http://www.fairwiki.org - A wikipedia styled format of FAIR information

http://www.fairboards.org - FAIR's message board.

While LDS Talk isn't a bad place to ask these questions, FAIR happens to exist to answer such questions.

Again, if you really did look into them before, I'm sorry for being repetitive.

Kudos.

[shanstress70]

Hello! :)

I am researching Mormonism, and I have 6 questions ....Looking for members of the LDS church.

It won't let me post all the questions with the references here (too long)...So I posted them online at www.allaboutjoshua.com or http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/questions

I just want to say that I'm not trying to attack anyone, I am trying to look at the issues from both sides so I though I'd post here to get some Mormon perspective to some questions I have seen raised on anti-mormon sites.

I understand that if you just glanced at the Bible it too would seem unbelievable, so I am trying to have an open mind.

Thank you very much for your help,

God bless,

Josh B)

Short description of questions: (but please see site for full questions and sources)

(1) If the Book of Mormon is true then, considering the way it was "translated" why have there been any changes made to it?

(2) If The Book of Mormon is true then why does it seem to copy the KJV of the Bible? Even so far as to copy the words that were added by the translators, and errors in the Hebrew?

(3) Why is there no archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon's claims? And why does the evidence seem to contradict it? E.g. the animals, crops, and metalworking.

(4) If Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, then why did some of his prophecies fail to come to pass?

(5) if the other scriptures (e.g. The Book of Abraham etc.) are true why do they seem to contradict each other?

(6) And how do you explain that the Book of Abraham does not read as Joseph Smith claimed it did?

I don't think you are researching Mormonism, but rather are attacking Mormonism. It's fine to have whatever beliefs you do, but don't come here under false pretense acting innocent. It's obvious that you've spent a bit (just a bit) of time on your anti-Mormon website. Just say what you think and leave it at that. You'd be respected much more than the way you're going about it now.

And that's coming from a non-LDS point-of-view.

[Dr T]

Hello Shan,

I'm not trying to be difficult. I really want to know your thoughts on this. Is this how you think AK, as the mod., ought to have handled Honeybear's post? Call it what it is and then see what happens?

Thanks

[JoshuaFKon]

Shanstress,

If you consider asking hard questions "attacking" then maybe I'm attacking, but how am I to research it without asking these questions? These are some of the major points raised by anti-mormon sites.

Please don't tell me (like I've heard before) that if I really wanted to know about Mormonism I would stick to official sites. That's just silly.

I don't come here "under false pretenses" if you click my user name it will tell you I am a Christian. If you go to my website I am very clear that I am a Christian trying to be objective.

(also I object to being called an "anti-mormon" site, I have made a great effort to be objective)

As for my site, I tried asking these questions without a site, and everyone yelled at me for "attacking" them without listing my sources, or giving references. I have spent a total of 4 days building my site (oh, my!) And I only put so much effort into it because I am taking an HTML class this fall and I am trying to learn the basics. Forgive me for actually spending time researching Mormonisn, I realize that many people believe if I was serious I would simply "pray to see if it was true" and BAM! wow faith would appear, and I wouldn't feel the need to "attack" by asking all these stupid questions.

By the way thanks to EricM for the fairwiki site, I had not seen that site before, and I liked it so much it is now on my website. thanks

Josh

Any one care to answer my questions?

http://joshuafkon.googlepages.com/questions

[rosie321]

Joshua - As a diligent seeker of truth myself, let me just say if your purpose truly is to seek answers then I can understand what you're doing and encourage you to keep diligently seeking and praying about it. Just blindly trusting people on matters of faith and eternal future can be very frightening. There are just so many voices out there with different expectations.

There are some dangers on seeking. It's a fine line sometimes between honestly questioning or searching and just plain attacking. I try not to judge too quickly as to peoples motives. Unfortunately, as others on your post have pointed out many people just go into things to cause trouble. Some people are very astute to certain patterns that some people use to just cause trouble, so the first reaction is sometimes to assume the worst. This can leave those who truly seek sometimes confused, angry, lost and frustrated. If you are truly seeking don't let anything stand in their way. If you're seeking to just cause trouble find another job. You're not going to persuade lots of people to jump ship from the truth they believe, just make yourself look crazy.

In your search just know some answers may never be fully understood in this lifetime. This is a hard pill to swallow. Unfortunately the natural brain inside overrides the eternal one at times so there are some things we may never know the right answers too. I still get lost in this area. But there are definite things I do know-without actual proof. I have never seen actually seen Christ in this lifetime but I believe He lived and died. I feel and know that as strongly as I know anything else. There are so many things that don't make sense but just are. Some of your questions may have truthful answers out there but may just not be understood in this lifetime or not at this moment. Its a progression.

One strong thing I've noticed about the LDS faith is that there are many things that do blend in with the Bible or are possiblities through that standard piece of work to so many faiths. Some very LDS things like baptisms for the dead, preaching to those in Spirit prison..... There may not be the proof we seek but it is a possibility. Unlike some other doctrines which seem way out there. (sorry don't want to blast other faiths but there are definite things you start to notice if you're really seeking).

Curious -I saw where you posted the web sites that EricM on your web site but have you actually read through them? (Thanks EricM btw ). If you're serious I encourage you to do that. Give it a chance. I'd be interested in knowing what you think after you've read them. While I haven't had a chance to read through it all it looks like it may have many if not all of the answers you seek. I am very excited to read it myself. Hopefully if you are seeking truthful answers, as am I, you will have some answered there. It looks like it has so many on there. I can't wait to read it. If you actively read these and then ask your questions people might not come across so strong or defensively.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Joshua, an objective website would've not only listed non-LDS concerns but LDS responses to them. Your website was so one-sided as to almost tip my monitor over. Adding the fairwiki link might be a step in the right direction, but look up objective in the dictionary my friend.

On another note, your HTML looks good. :)

[rosie321]

Just some more food for thought to add in your search and promotion of God's truth. God's truth will tend to draw out the best in people or the longterm good. It will also grant the fruit of the spirit as repentence and forgiveness are sought after.

There is opposition to God's truth. Christians everywhere believe in that. Cultures everywhere believe in the Good vs. Evil. Christians everywhere need to be careful in developing the fruits of the flesh. You will feel your joy, peace, love etc. whittle away if not diligent.

I took a look at your web site. It did nothing to bring out the eternal good. The verse in Timothy came to mind-"Ever learning never able to come to a knowledge of the truth". As you progress please be careful which side you really are on. While I wanted to take you as an honest seeker. ApostleKnight was correct. Your site was very one sided. It did come across a little attacking. You want all the anwers but I got a sense from the tone of your web site that it was baiting people on the line for something. Not really seeking fruitful discussion. I got the sense from the site, that you have your mind made up and any answer you recieved would be to tear someone down. I have no problem with someone who believes something different but I do have a big problem with someone who openly seeks to tear someone else or their beliefs down. Maybe on your website you could share where it is you are coming from or what you believe. Your site is very one sided. If the LDS is so off then what do you believe and why? The only thing you have done is shut the door to open LDS discussion by your tone.

In your searching please be careful that you don't miss spiritual truth by looking to much between the line. That you miss out on the fruits of the spirit by seeking to destroy others. Spiritual truths are not prooved in the same way that scientific are. There are many incidents in the Bible that are not necessarily scientifically backed up as the other person mentioned. But that does not make them any less true. Unfortunately since we are so trained in the scientific it takes a bit longer to find it the spiritual way.

[BenRaines]

Of the 13 Articles of Faith this is number 11

"11 We claim the priviledge of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

This is all we ask and ask others to respect it.

In regards to our missionary work if someone was not interested we thanked them for their time and moved on to the next person.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

Well said Ben. Amen.

[JoshuaFKon]

I am sorry you all feel that I am attacking you, perhaps "objective" was not the best word I could have used. I am trying to research it with an open mind, I am not trying to inform others about mormonism, If I was ,my site would be much fairer than it is (although I think it is resonablely fair)

The whole point of my site is to ask questions, not inform. (although I consider it to me very informative also)

Also, even if I was just "attacking" you, (which I'm not) I believe it is hopicritical of you to critize me for not "just accepting that we disagree" and trying to "attack" you by asking questions, when Mormons are well know for their missionary work (a fact which I admire)

Josh

[Guest ApostleKnight]

The problem, Joshua, is that these issues have been hashed out so many times that many of us are simply tired of regurgitating the same answer time and time again.

When I was an LDS missionary and we knocked on someone's door, and they said, "I've already talked to guys like you before, I'm not interested in being Mormon," we'd smile, thank them for their time, and move on. Wouldn't you be annoyed if instead we stayed at your door and told you again why our Church was true even though you'd already asked us to leave and didn't want to hear about it anymore?

By the way, that was rhetorical. :)

[JoshuaFKon]

Well, I'm sorry to have to bring them up, but I am not "knocking on your door" is you are tired of answering the same old questoins again and again, I understand that.

But several people have posted critizing me for asking questions, only one or two have actually tried to answer them....

I assume as knowlable Mormons (or do you prefer to be called Latter Day Saints? or LDS's) you know, the answers to them.

Thank you for your time,

Josh K.

[Traveler]

Well, I'm sorry to have to bring them up, but I am not "knocking on your door" is you are tired of answering the same old questoins again and again, I understand that.

But several people have posted critizing me for asking questions, only one or two have actually tried to answer them....

I assume as knowlable Mormons (or do you prefer to be called Latter Day Saints? or LDS's) you know, the answers to them.

Thank you for your time,

Josh K.

There is a reason you are being criticized friend. These questions come from researching anti-LDS - but you indicated you are researching the LDS faith. There is a contradiction between what you say and what you do. There is nothing in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that teaches anything in the manner you have asked - nor is there any in the LDS community that would suggest you ask these questions. Personally I seriously doubt that you thought of these questions on your own. Many have learned that barking dogs have a tendency to bite if given the opportunity.

The Traveler

[JoshuaFKon]

*sigh* I never said I "thought these questions up on my own" As I reseached Mormonism, I read both the Pro and the Con on Mormonism.

These are the questions which I felt were not addressed to my satisfation.

Please don't tell me I should only read Pro-mormon sites, and please don't tell me I should just pray about it.

Thank you,

Josh

P.S. You also said "There is nothing in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that teaches anything in the manner you have asked" Please explain this statment.

[Traveler]

*sigh* I never said I "thought these questions up on my own" As I reseached Mormonism, I read both the Pro and the Con on Mormonism.

These are the questions which I felt were not addressed to my satisfation.

Please don't tell me I should only read Pro-mormon sites, and please don't tell me I should just pray about it.

Thank you,

Josh

P.S. You also said "There is nothing in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that teaches anything in the manner you have asked" Please explain this statment.

If you want to learn math will you study from people that fail at math or think math is useless so you get a balance understanding? You will never learn math with that approach. If you want to learn to be a doctor you would seek out those that disagree with doctors?

My father taught me a very good lesson as I grew up. He said that if you what to learn something seek out the very best at it that you can find. Never value information from a failure. In my opinion you have sought from failures. This is like trying to learn democracy from a communist. There is too much incentive to deceive and not be truthful to expect that you will ever deal with truth in seeking from failures in such a manner.

If someone wants to learn about Catholics - seek out Catholics, for Baptist - talk to Baptist, for Buddhist - learn from a Buddhist.

If you think you need an negative opinion to determine if someone is honest I do not think you understand honesty. If you think you need negative input before you can recognize truth - I am not sure it would matter if you ever encountered truth. If you cannot identify truth as it stands within itself (for example math) then I doubt very much seeking out negative input will help you.

Finely you asked for an explanation concerning LDS teachings. Someone that understands LDS thought will not try to tell you of things beyond what they have received with joy. I believe Jesus taught that we are only to teach his gospel and not other's gospel. So if someone claims to be a follower of Jesus but teaches about other faiths - they are really not followers of Jesus.

Now if you have a question about something in LDS teachings you have wondered about in your studies - let us discuss it but if your questions come from non-LDS then I suggest you have them explain it.

The Traveler

[lisajo]

To me you are here to get everyone worked up. My advise is you should not have come in blazing, you should test the waters first make friends and if you were sincere ask questions. Now i just think your a trouble maker that should just be banned, you never even gave us a chance to get to know you first before you jumped in!

[LionHeart]

Hello JoshuaK, I will answer all of your questions with this one simple principle. First of all, it doesn't matter what religion you look into, they will all have certain things that don't seem quite right; and further, they will all have things that don't make any sense at all. This situation was put here on this Earth for a definite purpose. That purpose can be summed up in these words: "Thomas, you believe because you see, but blessed are those who believe without seeing." The reason it is this way is to get people to seek after God. This is how He seperates the wheat from the tares. Those who truly want to follow Him and live according to His commandments will seek after Him. Once they have found Him, they know what He wants them to do; and when people bring up questions about why this or that doesn't make sense, their faith is not shaken because they have that testimony. They believe without seeing. And if they continue on that path, their faith will eventually become a knowledge, and they will no longer have to believe because they will know. You see, these people who want hard evidence of certain things before they will consider any certain path are those who must see before they will believe.

[JoshuaFKon]

If you all have so much time on your hands that you can debate the merits of my questions and the motive for my asking them, perhaps you could take five minutes and go to my site and answer my questions. Just a thought.

As for Traveler's last post,

I don't know why, but I seem to get this alot in my "quest" to get someone to answer these question..."if you have a question about Mormons....only ask mormon sites"

I will use your own example of democracy, let's say I wanted to know about communism, does it work? are the people happier? If I asked Stalin or Castro about communism what do you think they would tell me..."No, really communism stinks, don't try it"? If I got all my info from communists would that be the way to really learn about it? Of course not! you would have to get the democracy's side too...reminds be of a verse in proverbs.

Proverbs 18:17 NIV

17 The first to present his case seems right,

till another comes forward and questions him.

I say if you want to know about someone, you need to ask their enemies. Now, I'm not saying you only ask their enemies, or that you accept everything and anything they say, but you need to hear their opinion.

Now, you said:

"I believe Jesus taught that we are only to teach his gospel and not other's gospel. So if someone claims to be a follower of Jesus but teaches about other faiths - they are really not followers of Jesus.

I assume you're refering to:

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

It's funny you should bring this up...usually this verse is used against Mormons and the Book of Mormon in particular.

You also said:

Now if you have a question about something in LDS teachings you have wondered about in your studies - let us discuss it but if your questions come from non-LDS then I suggest you have them explain it.

I have a question about LDS teachings, alas, due to my love of "attacking" other faiths and the enjoyment I get from arguing the same points over and over again. ( I have also devloped a strange delight in being told I am a decitful person) a have come to you, members of the LDS church, to answer my questions.

Sadly, because I enjoy confustion and frustration, I have chosen to ignore they easy paths of "Asking them [the anti-mormons]" my questions, or simply "praying" about it, to receive instant faith (which, I have been told, I am serverly lacking in)

Oh, well....poor me.

Thanks for your time though....

God bless,

Josh

[lisajo]

If you all have so much time on your hands that you can debate the merits of my questions and the motive for my asking them, perhaps you could take five minutes and go to my site and answer my questions. Just a thought.

As for Traveler's last post,

I don't know why, but I seem to get this alot in my "quest" to get someone to answer these question..."if you have a question about Mormons....only ask mormon sites"

I will use your own example of democracy, let's say I wanted to know about communism, does it work? are the people happier? If I asked Stalin or Castro about communism what do you think they would tell me..."No, really communism stinks, don't try it"? If I got all my info from communists would that be the way to really learn about it? Of course not! you would have to get the democracy's side too...reminds be of a verse in proverbs.

Proverbs 18:17 NIV

17 The first to present his case seems right,

till another comes forward and questions him.

I say if you want to know about someone, you need to ask their enemies. Now, I'm not saying you only ask their enemies, or that you accept everything and anything they say, but you need to hear their opinion.

Now, you said:

"I believe Jesus taught that we are only to teach his gospel and not other's gospel. So if someone claims to be a follower of Jesus but teaches about other faiths - they are really not followers of Jesus.

I assume you're refering to:

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

It's funny you should bring this up...usually this verse is used against Mormons and the Book of Mormon in particular.

You also said:

Now if you have a question about something in LDS teachings you have wondered about in your studies - let us discuss it but if your questions come from non-LDS then I suggest you have them explain it.

I have a question about LDS teachings, alas, due to my love of "attacking" other faiths and the enjoyment I get from arguing the same points over and over again. ( I have also devloped a strange delight in being told I am a decitful person) a have come to you, members of the LDS church, to answer my questions.

Sadly, because I enjoy confustion and frustration, I have chosen to ignore they easy paths of "Asking them [the anti-mormons]" my questions, or simply "praying" about it, to receive instant faith (which, I have been told, I am serverly lacking in)

Oh, well....poor me.

Thanks for your time though....

God bless,

Josh

BLAHHHHHHH BLAHHHHHHH BLAHHHHHHHH Good bye!

[JoshuaFKon]

BLAHHHHHHH BLAHHHHHHH BLAHHHHHHHH Good bye!

Very helpful, thank you.

Josh