Narcissistic Personality Disorder

[sister_in_faith]

Here are some things that I've read today that resonate with me...

"These traits will lead overly narcissistic parents to be very intrusive in some ways, and entirely neglectful in others. The children are punished if they do not respond adequately to the parents' needs. This punishment may take a variety of forms, including physical abuse, angry outbursts, blame, attempts to instill guilt, emotional neglect, and criticism. Whatever form it takes, the purpose of the punishment is to enforce compliance with the parents' narcissistic needs." wikipedia

"Because mothers take the major role in child care, N mothers can do major damage to their children, if they are narcissists. A N mother is emotionally immature, the child has to take care of her. The needs of the narcissist mother come first and are like the needs of a hungry baby bird. "Feed me, feed me" the narcissist mother cries to its child, instead of caring for its child's needs, the mother is like a vampire feeding on the child. I have seen a narcissistic mother playing this game with daughters - the daughters would mimic a feeding bird - very childish actions for women over 20!" Narcissistic parents

This describes my mother to a T. When I turned 18 she 'retired' and let me work full time while going to school full time to take care of her. She let me run up a ton of debt to take care of her needs and told me that she would never help me pay it off. While I was still working on getting my license she refused to drive me to school (I had to walk quite a ways) because she said it made her feel like she had a 'schedule'. It wasn't until I had my first major brain biopsy surgery and literally COULD NOT bring home a pay check that she got a job and started working, even tho months before I had begged her to find a job because I was emotionally falling apart from the pressure. I wasn't even living with her any more, and she still took my ENTIRE pay check (my honey had to feed me because I had no money for food, even tho I was working full time). It was a really sick and twisted relationship. She still makes me feel guilty that I am not able to support her financially. And I'll freely admit that I am an idiot for pandering to her. I am still coming to terms with the extent to which she BRAINWASHED me to believe that I was the source of all her pain, and I 'owe' her something for being my mother. Ugh.

Yes, Anne, it helps to know what is going on with her, and it helps to know that I'm NOT alone.

Edited November 3, 2011 by sister_in_faith

[sister_in_faith]

You are in a motor boat on the ocean, alone with your narcissistic parent. You are 8 years old and your parent is 40. Suddenly, there is an small explosion in the boat. No one is injured, but it is clear that the boat will sink. There are no lifejackets, but there is a lifeboat. Unfortunately, the lifeboat will hold only one person. (If 2 people try to get in or hold on it will sink). Therefore, it is obvious that only one person will survive. What would your parent do?

1. Tell you to get in the lifeboat and row to shore, and say: "I love you."

2. Tell you to get in the lifeboat and row to shore and say "I'm a hero because I'm saving your life"

3. Get in the lifeboat and say: "I'm doing the practical thing---you wouldn't have been able to row to shore anyway"

4. Get in the lifeboat and say "you've always been a disappointment anyway" and tell everyone on shore you died in the explosion

5. Get in the lifeboat and laugh as you go under

this is from Voicelessness and Emotional Survival--Narcissistic Parents

I think my mom would do #3... This question kind of brings things into focus.

[sister_in_faith]

Oh, here's the latest gem...

I can't have access to large quantities of ambien because of my depression. all my meds are locked up and administered by my honey every night. Recently I started getting my meds thru a mail order place. They have to send the medications to a physical address, not a po box.

I asked my mom if she would let me have the ambien sent to her apartment so that it wouldn't come to my house, and I wouldn't be in danger. She REFUSED because she didn't want the mail man to think that she was on any medication. I told her it would be in my name, and unmarked, but she flatly stated that it was more important to her that her name be 'unsullied' than for my life to be in danger.

Here's another good one - not narcissistic, just mean... when I told her that I had a brain tumor she responded, "Well, you have wanted to die before, so I guess it's no big deal then, huh?" yep, thats my loving mother.

[annewandering]

Oh my gosh.... How did you turn out to be such a nice person? Proof positive that we are not what our environment or our genetic heritages are.

[Argentina84]

Hi! I have suffered from depression and at some point thought that I could also be suffering from NPD. But I guess I was wrong, because the first sign of narcissism is that you cannot see it yourself? Should I open a new thread for this?

[FunkyTown]

Hi! I have suffered from depression and at some point thought that I could also be suffering from NPD. But I guess I was wrong, because the first sign of narcissism is that you cannot see it yourself? Should I open a new thread for this?

This thread ain't about you, Argentina!

*drops mic and walks off. Check and mate.*

[kimzirker]

Sister in Faith...That's such a sad story. I'm so sorry. The good news is that now that you know this about your mom, you can use that knowledge to not allow her to have power over you anymore. Maybe we need to form a support group on here!

[sister_in_faith]

Oh my gosh.... How did you turn out to be such a nice person? Proof positive that we are not what our environment or our genetic heritages are.

In all seriousness, this is something that I have struggled trying to figure out (now I'm tooting my own horn). I want with all my heart to be a GOOD person. I am guessing that because this has always been my goal, and that in my childhood I was so freaked out that I would do something bad, that if ever did anything bad I would punish myself quickly and harshly. It was just my hearts desire to be a nice good person. My counselor told me this week that I needed to stop trying to be a good person, because I already was. :) THAT made me so happy!

Sister in Faith...That's such a sad story. I'm so sorry. The good news is that now that you know this about your mom, you can use that knowledge to not allow her to have power over you anymore. Maybe we need to form a support group on here!

Lady, first let me say how sorry I am that I hijacked your thread! It's an emotional issue, and I am thankful to you beyond words that you brought it to our attention. Yes, I think we SHOULD start a support group forum (mods, are you listening? :) ). That is really what I wanted to get out of joining lds.net...

I can't tell all of you how much being able to tell you guys what happened to me has helped me have a different perspective on it. The majority of my life has been wrapped up in trying to keep all these things secret, and to be able to make it very public has been wonderful.

Thank you, everyone, for your kind support.

Hi! I have suffered from depression and at some point thought that I could also be suffering from NPD. But I guess I was wrong, because the first sign of narcissism is that you cannot see it yourself? Should I open a new thread for this?

I say, tell us about it!!!

[busigirl7]

Sister In Faith - I've been dealing with the issue of a narcissistic mother since I made the discovery about mine a few years ago. I decided to google it tonight and completely stumbled onto this forum. I am a recent convert to the church and am surprised to learn of so many generational members who turn away from the church because of a hurtful family member. Your story is truly an inspiration. I believe we were given our parents and family members for a reason. The pure love of Christ is alive and well with you. Thank you so much.

[Dr T]

I wanted to tell you there are "states, traits and then Disorders" with these personality characteristics. States are passing, traits happen more and disorders disrupt mulple areas of functioning so be careful with throwing around Narissitic personality disorder.

[clevermoniker]

How's this for a first post on this site? I have been diagnosed with this disorder. It's different for everyone, so I can't speak directly for your husband. Don't listen to anyone who tells you that it's impossible to treat, that's simply untrue. How difficult it will be to treat will all depend on him. It took me a long time to really understand my diagnosis to the point where I agreed to it, and that was probably the biggest step. It can be done, and i'd be willing to answer any questions you might have about it.

The bottom line is: It can be dealt with, and you can both be happy.

[kimzirker]

How long did it take you to understand your diagnosis? How did you find out that you had NPD. I have been told that it isn't treatable per se, but a person can learn to recognize the behavior and then modify it. I'm trying to work things out with my husband. It's been a very long, very exhausting road, but I truly feel like the spirit is guiding me in my choices so I'm just going to trust in that. One thing that has been very helpful is to set clear boundaries with him. Before, I just didn't want him to get upset (because that was a KABOOOM) so I took all the blame, covered up all the imperfections, and cleaned up all the messes. Now, I am not afraid of his anger. He cleans up his own messes. Sometimes he even comes home to a messy house! (I know...shocking) I'm making it a little light, but I had to make some real changes in how I dealt with him and although he may initially HATE my directness--he has accepted that things are changing and there is behavior that is never acceptable. I find that when I am direct (but loving) with what is expected, then he loves me enough to make those changes. My fear was if I started standing up for myself, then he would leave. Then I realized...SO WHAT? Let him leave. After that I was able to make the changes in myself that have really helped him. He's a million times the husband and father that he was a few months ago. We still might not make it. His choices have consequences, but for now we are both committed to trying and work through it. Any advice or thoughts you have would be much appreciated. :)

[LDSJewess]

I have a daughter with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and it can be draining on the entire family. She is grown and has had multiple marriages and relationships and had children (our grandchildren) from these relationships. It is never easy.

The one thing I will say is if your husband is in therapy you may be at least dealing with half the battle because this disorder has the person thinking that they are right and there is nothing wrong with their thinking rather it is "everyone elses fault." This means many refuse therapy because they do not believe they need therapy. They also are classicly chronic liars and are masters of manipulation in cheating in many situations, including lying tho themselves and ultimately cheating themselves of a happier life.

I am not sure if this is something that can ever be fixed, however perhpas going into therapy to learn how to cope with your husband may be helpful.

I wish you all the best.

[clevermoniker]

I was diagnosed while undergoing therapy. (That's a very long story in itself. For now, let me just say that I have many of the same traits as your husband, but I really let things get out of control). It took me a long time to accept it, and a big part of that was coming to trust and respect the therapist I was seeing at the time, after going through quite a few. I had to find a good therapist, and a PhD was a necessity. I believed I was smarter than my other therapists, and proved it regularly by manipulating them just for fun.

My therapist was willing to be patient with me, and let me focus on many of the other issues I had until I was ready to address this directly. He helped me to see it logically, when I wasn't able to handle it emotionally.

Your willingness to let your husband leave is admirable, and I really urge you to stick to that. The condition is completely treatable, but as with everything there are no guarantees. He has to know that the threat of losing you is real, and that you'll follow through with it. He has to know that, one way or another, you will not put up with his behavior. This will do one of two things: Encourage him to really seek help (Just going to therapy is only part of it, but really wanting help is another) or it will help you more quickly get to a point where you'll know that it just isn't going to work, and at that point there's no point in postponing the inevitable.

[kimzirker]

It is draining on the family and I'll be honest--there are times that I want to just run the other direction. We have had it rough. He is in therapy, but that's been pretty touch and go. At this point, things are looking better. He realizes he has a problem. Not necessarily beyond his anger problem, but honestly, if he can get a handle on that then that will solve 90% of the problems. Things did not really start getting better until I finally reached my limit. I realized that my behavior was actually making things much worse. In my attempts to make everything happy and perfect all the time, he was able to keep feeling entitled to perfection. I finally got tired of everything being my fault. One Sunday afternoon, he started in on another rant about nothing. When I addressed it with him, he was very angry with me, and said, "If you don't like it, then you can always just leave." It was like a light bulb went off. I said, "You're right. I don't like it and I don't have to put up with it at all." (And he loves to be right, so it was really a win-win) Then I packed up the kids, checked into a hotel and stayed for a couple of weeks. I didn't return any calls at all for a week, but finally I said that I would be willing to return to the house but only under a few conditions. No abuse, alcohol, or affairs. (I know--I'm very demanding....)I needed visual proof that all relationships had been severed. I needed to know all passwords. His phone and ipad were not allowed to have locks (or I needed to know the passcodes) and I would always have full access to them. He had to stay in therapy, go to sex addicts meetings, meet with the bishop, and go back to church each week. That was the turning point for us. My husband knows (because I told him very directly) exactly what behavior is not acceptable and now he knows that I mean it. And I really do. For anyone who is struggling with someone who has NPD--clear expectations are the key. Of course, I always say everything in a very kind and loving way, but I'm very clear. No sugar coating. And although his initial response might not be favorable, I don't budge, I clearly state what isn't acceptable, and then he modifies his behavior. This is not an instantanious transformation. It may take him a day or two, but it has been progressively getting better and faster. I hope some of this makes sense and is maybe helpful to someone else. :) Thank you all for your kind words and advice. It has been very helpful and comforting. Much love.