Does Faith Need Evidence?

[JoshuaFKon]

Desiré

I'm sorry you think you're defending your faith just for my amusement.

That is not the case.

But I will agree with you on one point

Btw... Ray is much better at explaining the faith than I am.

He is good at expressing the truth...

Although you are almost as good! So close I amost think you are the same people...

and I will always try and learn more.... from people who know what they are talking about.)

you mean...from people who argee with you....

Josh

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

Do you think there's a limit to what YOU can say? Do YOU only say "Yes" and "No"?

NO.

I know that you don't. You typed a whole sentence! Thank God you have some of His wisdom. :)

YES.

Yes, that was amusing. Let's see how long you can keep it up. :)

Desiré

I'm sorry you think you're defending your faith just for my amusement.

That is not the case.

But I will agree with you on one point

Btw... Ray is much better at explaining the faith than I am.

He is good at expressing the truth...

Although you are almost as good! So close I amost think you are the same people...

and I will always try and learn more.... from people who know what they are talking about.)

you mean...from people who argee with you....

Josh

yawn.

Oh my.

I must be getting tired.

Good night. :)

[LionHeart]

One point I might mention that has relevance to this O.P. is the fact that one of the reasons Jesus performed miracles was to prove that He is the Messiah. The fact that He could perform those miracles was proof enough to make so that the pharasees, when they got to the other side, could not say "We didn't know!" But they rejected Him because of the position it would have put them in if He was right. So basicly, it comes down to the fact that they knowingly crucified their God to maintain their political power on this Earth. When Jesus said: "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." He was praying for the Romans, not the pharasees. Because the pharasees knew darn well what they were doing.

But for those who believed, the miracles established the basic evidence, and the faith was built thereon.

But there were also those who were not witnesses to the miracles and therefore were required to rely solely on the testimony of others; at least until they were blessed with a testimony of their own; which I believe everyone can get if they want it enough to put forth the effort to get it. And the strength of it will be directly proportional to the amount of effort they put forth to get it.

So to put it all together, some people require evidence, and some don't. It just depends on how great their faith is.

L.H.

[Princess3dward]

and I will always try and learn more.... from people who know what they are talking about.)

you mean...from people who argee with you....

No. I know what I said.

You can't go against something God has told me is right, and have me believe you over HIM!

That would be madness.

You can't give me celestial glory,

so I will never choose you over God!

I will listen to anyone open minded,

and who knows that they can always learn more (OPEN MINDED AND DON'T THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING ALREADY).

The answer you are looking for is:

You are right... Joseph must be a fraud.

Unfortunatly for you, everything I even think about Joseph and his account, I know that he was telling the truth... because the Spirit EVERY TIME reminds me (because He knows that I am always tested. I am being protected.)

I hope you one day understand!

I would love for you to listen to our answers!

I wish you could read my mind!

Than no one can take the truth from you!!!!!

[lisajo]

Joshua k

You have said more than a few times I GIVE UP! now i just see you still posting every day, whats up with that? you even had a post that said that, OK so what is it? up or not?....Josh do you know what a troll is? Because you are looking alot like one to me

[JoshuaFKon]

I said I was "giving up" for a couple of days once...lisajo,

Do you know what a negitave, nit-picking person is?

Josh B)

[lisajo]

I said I was "giving up" for a couple of days once...lisajo,

Do you know what a negitave, nit-picking person is?

Josh B)

Ya and atleast i can admitt it LOL (not to strong on the negative but nit-pick i do)

[JoshuaFKon]

Ya and atleast i can admitt it LOL (not to strong on the negative but nit-pick i do)

There I go...amusing and entertaining everyone again.

Josh B)

[pushka]

I just thought I'd throw in a quick comment here.

I've really enjoyed the board in the last week or so since JoshuaK started posting. I realise that some have been upset by his style of posting/questioning, however on the whole I think that the banter between him and other posters has been quite amusing and informative at the same time.

Thanks for livening up the site Josh, I don't think you mean anybody any harm.

[JoshuaFKon]

I just thought I'd throw in a quick comment here.

I've really enjoyed the board in the last week or so since JoshuaK started posting. I realise that some have been upset by his style of posting/questioning, however on the whole I think that the banter between him and other posters has been quite amusing and informative at the same time.

Thanks for livening up the site Josh, I don't think you mean anybody any harm.

Thank you so much :) ....you really don't know what that means to me :)

Josh B)

[pushka]

You're welcome Josh :)

[Serg]

"No evidence is need to establish truth." What do you mean?

THanks,

Dr. T

What I mean, is that the establishment of a truth is dependent on the requisits of the enviorment in which is going to be established(manifested), hence Jesus is going to abide on earth(thats a truth) but has to have a body to share interaction with less refined and matirial essenses, (of course, thisis given -that He's already got a body-but just to illustrate), further, no need of earthly evidence" for the existance of God is neeed to make it true that He exists!, the TRUTH of a concept is not dependent on earthly requisits of manifestations to actually exist!, even logic tells, that for things to be "proven" or "evidenced" they FIRST exist(by principle), and then their existence becomes ACTUAL to the things(people or whatever) IN the enviorment that requires such...

Anyways, I do not need evidence to BELIEVE in God, but i do to KNOW He exists, even for those who speak of "no need for faith-promoting" facts, they indeed do not exclude the evidence that comes from the Holy Spirit, but i also reffer to earthly things, they do not prove our messege, but boy! is logical that eternal truths have ACTUAL earthly-reflected evidences, hence our "truth" about the eternal existence of matter, and our "earthly" first law of thermodaunamics... get it? CoOl.LOL.

Regards,

One point I might mention that has relevance to this O.P. is the fact that one of the reasons Jesus performed miracles was to prove that He is the Messiah. The fact that He could perform those miracles was proof enough to make so that the pharasees, when they got to the other side, could not say "We didn't know!" But they rejected Him because of the position it would have put them in if He was right. So basicly, it comes down to the fact that they knowingly crucified their God to maintain their political power on this Earth. When Jesus said: "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." He was praying for the Romans, not the pharasees. Because the pharasees knew darn well what they were doing.

But for those who believed, the miracles established the basic evidence, and the faith was built thereon.

But there were also those who were not witnesses to the miracles and therefore were required to rely solely on the testimony of others; at least until they were blessed with a testimony of their own; which I believe everyone can get if they want it enough to put forth the effort to get it. And the strength of it will be directly proportional to the amount of effort they put forth to get it.

So to put it all together, some people require evidence, and some don't. It just depends on how great their faith is.

L.H.

That is a harsh(and partly-true) statement. I would believe in the Scripture when Paul says "nobody Calls Jesus the christ but by the Spirit of Prophecy", hence, I do not believe that :the JEWS(plural), KNEW He was their God, maybe soem of the high priests who knew the scriptural WAY by which he fulfilled the requisits of the messiah, knew, but not the masses that ignorantly approved of the pharisees. Not all the jews that crucified him felt the testimony of God telling them He was the Christ, just to see him perform miracles does not make him the Messiah, many prophets(non-scirptura, by the way) performed similar miracles, and come on, they could nt have been 300 years believing EVERY guy they met. What Jesus wanted wa sthey they humble themselvs and SEE, and BELIEVE, not just "hear" what he said, but "LISTEN" truly, hence He said that most of the jews didnt really SEE(then it follows that if they did not SEE in the spiritual relevant sense, how could you judge them as if they did? and "knew" but willingly rebelled?) If Jesus on purpose taught them that they SHOULD SEE AND YET NOT TRULY SEE, and hence the parables, I cant say the knowingly rejected Him, maybe the High Priests, but as to the masses, nah, too judgemental(for me),.........