Holy Ghost

[Maureen]

OKay, Adam and Eve earned their salvation on another world. That is where they received their bodies.

LionHeart, are you referring to the Adam-God Theory? If you are, BY did bring it to the attention of the 19th century church, but it never did take root.

M.

[LionHeart]

<div class='quotemain'>

OKay, Adam and Eve earned their salvation on another world. That is where they received their bodies.

LionHeart, are you referring to the Adam-God Theory? If you are, BY did bring it to the attention of the 19th century church, but it never did take root.

M.

Yes. However, I'm not quite sure I believe that Adam is the God of this world. But it does make sense that he did earn his salvation on another world.

L.H.

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

OKay, Adam and Eve earned their salvation on another world. That is where they received their bodies.

LionHeart, are you referring to the Adam-God Theory? If you are, BY did bring it to the attention of the 19th century church, but it never did take root.

M.

Yes. However, I'm not quite sure I believe that Adam is the God of this world. But it does make sense that he did earn his salvation on another world.

L.H.

I think that is totally wack...

[LionHeart]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

OKay, Adam and Eve earned their salvation on another world. That is where they received their bodies.

LionHeart, are you referring to the Adam-God Theory? If you are, BY did bring it to the attention of the 19th century church, but it never did take root.

M.

Yes. However, I'm not quite sure I believe that Adam is the God of this world. But it does make sense that he did earn his salvation on another world.

L.H.

I think that is totally wack...

Yes, it does sound like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. That's what I thought when I first heard the idea. Then I read Brigham Young's discourse on it, and you know, it actually sounded plausible.

But like was mentioned before, it was never accepted as official doctrine. It does contradict some things in the Book of Genesis, but that book contradicts itself also. So I suppose it's just left up to everyone to make whatever sense of it that they can.

L.H.

[Dr T]

Hello Bro. D,

I must have missed you post on this thread some how. You said,

...they had to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil so they could gain their agency...

Wasn't chosing to eat from the tree an exhibition of their agency?

Thanks,

Dr. T

[Princess3dward]

Hello Bro. D,

I must have missed you post on this thread some how. You said,

...they had to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil so they could gain their agency...

Wasn't chosing to eat from the tree an exhibition of their agency?

Thanks,

Dr. T

I heard something like... that chose one sin over another....(eat from the tree, or not fulfill the go forth and multiply).... and I also heard that it was just all about agency.

I personally like the first one better...

Any thoughts? :)

[Serg]

So far its been a very good thread concerning Adam, now, i would very seriously encourage you Moonfire to get your endowment, there it is simply wonderful, as to all you WILL learn9if you pay attention)

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

Heh, nope, I don't think so. I disagree with you here. So far you are not speaking for God. :)

What makes you think they had to become mortal to create offspring, LionHeart?

Are you thinking they couldn't have known how without becoming mortal?

Are you thinking that they couldn't just ask God?

Or that God would not have told them how to do it?

That God would have told them to go and eat from that tree that He told them to not eat from before?

And that God would've still cursed them for disobeying His will because He had told them not to before?

Keep thinking, and let me know what God thinks about that... if you should ever find out.

You see Ray, you can't plant peas and get carrots. In order to get mortal offspring, two mortals must come together and....I won't go into details. They had to acquire mortal bodies in order to actually be fruitful and multiply. Regardless of how much they may have known about it. Knowing how to fix a car won't do a mechanic any good if he doesn't have the tools to actually do it.

L.H.

Who said their offspring had to be mortal?

Who said the bodies they were given... which were created from the dust of the Earth... into which their spirits were moved into... as expresssed by the idea that those bodies received the breath of life... were incapable of creating children?

You're still jumping to conclusions... as far as I know... and I'm waiting for further light and knowledge from my Father.

<div class='quotemain'>

Hi L.H.,

Are you saying that you think Adam and Eve did not have physical bodies until they ate of the tree of KofG&E or they would not die until they ate of that tree?

Thanks,

Dr. T

Yes, when they first came to the garden, they were in a state of immortality. They did not actually become mortal until they ate the fruit.

L.H.

Yes, but... as far as I know... that didn't mean they couldn't have had children... if they had simply received knowledge of how to do that... knowledge which was good... without knowing any evil.

Let's all be careful about making assumptions.

<div class='quotemain'>

Hi L.H.,

Des asked the same question I still have about what you are saying. Are you saying "yes" to both of those? They didn't have bodies?

Thanks,

Dr. T

My personal belief on this subject, which idea I get from the teachings of Brigham Young, is this:

As was discussed in another thread, Jesus attained to a state of Godhood before He came to this world. I also beleive that the role Adam had to play as the father of humanity in the flesh was also a very important role; one that could not be carried out by just anyone. Therefore, I believe that Adam also attained to a state of Godhood before He came to this world. And since there was never a time when there was a chicken without the egg, or an egg without the chicken, as the universe is one eternal round, Adam must have had a body before He came to this Earth. It was not created from the dust of the Earth, but sustained by the dust of another Earth. He had already received a body and earned His salvation on another world and then agreed to come here and commence human kind on this one. Since His body was in a Celestial condition, He had to partake of the fruit to transform it back to a mortal condition.

This particular task of being the first man, had to be carried out by someone who had a knowledge of how to get back to the presence of the Father as there were no scriptures or stories of great prophets who went before; only Adam and the knowledge He had. This is what He had to teach His children with.

That is my belief on the subject. I couldn't say how many LDS agree with it.

L.H.

What you're saying has some truth from what we (LDS) know to be scripture but it's mingled with some philosophies of some men.

I know how to know truth. Do you know how to know truth? Then let's find it! Let's see what God says.

:)

<div class='quotemain'>

Hi L.H.,

I'm with Moon on this. His question is a good one. L.H., you said,

So far, it makes sense. Because why would God command them to be fruitful and multiply, and then command them not to eat the fruit that would make that possible for them?

To me, it doesn't make sense because if they are told to multiply then they are told NOT to eat of the tree that you suggest is the only way to do that, it seems like it is contrary to what you are proposing.

THanks,

Dr. T

That is exactly why I began to wonder if the original bible text was misinterpreted. You can't find anywhere in the bible or the pearl of great price where it says that the tree of knowledge was the thing that transformed them into mortals; this was Brigham Young's teaching. But regardless of whether that's true or not, they still had to eat of the fruit in order to gain the knowledge of how to be fruitful and multiply. So the book of Genesis is contradictory in this instance.

But for all those who don't follow, I will sum it all up. And keep in mind, this is NOT official LDS doctrine, It is an idea that was advanced by Brigham Young which I read about and it made sense to me.

First of all, we need to understand that no man can officiate in administering laws to the children of men whithout first becoming subject to those laws himself.

OKay, Adam and Eve earned their salvation on another world. That is where they received their bodies. They then agreed to come to this world and commence humankind on this world. The condition they were in was that of an exalted man. They had bodies, but because their bodies had been transformed in to celestial bodies, they were made up of a more pure state of matter; unable to be seen by the untrained mortal eye. The tree of knowledge was composed of a more course form of matter. When they ate the fruit, that course matter flowed through their veins and transformed their body into a more course state of matter. Rather than being commanded not to eat the fruit, it may have been more to the effect of "Are you sure you want to do this; even though you will again become subject unto death?" So they agreed to do it. They were not cursed, only transformed into mortal beings. Now also in the garden of eden, there was another tree called 'The Tree of Life' which would transform them back. This tree is accounted for in the Book of Abraham. This is why they were sent out of the garden; to ensure they would not eat of this tree if things started to get rough. Because on their former world, they likely had conveniences that were established by those who went before them. Now they were the ones to begin it all. They had no way to tell just how they would be able to cope with hardships they would encounter. So they were sent out of the garden so they could not decide to end it all early.

Also being the first people on this earth, they had no prophets who went before them, and no scriptures to teach their children from. Adam had to know how to earn his salvation so He could teach His children. He knew how because He had done it before.

To me, it makes more sense when considering it in this light.

L.H.

I would just like to say that this is LionHeart's opinion. There is some truth, and some misunderstandings.

And I don't want you to believe what I'm saying about this.

You should all just ask God for yourselves... and look to those who you know God has sent.

[StrawberryFields]

Heh, nope, I don't think so. I disagree with you here. So far you are not speaking for God. :)

Keep thinking, and let me know what God thinks about that... if you should ever find out.

You're still jumping to conclusions... as far as I know... and I'm waiting for further light and knowledge from my Father.

Yes, but... as far as I know... that didn't mean they couldn't have had children... if they had simply received knowledge of how to do that... knowledge which was good... without knowing any evil.

Let's all be careful about making assumptions.

What you're saying has some truth from what we (LDS) know to be scripture but it's mingled with some philosophies of some men.

I know how to know truth. Do you know how to know truth? Then let's find it! Let's see what God says.

:)

I would just like to say that this is LionHeart's opinion. There is some truth, and some misunderstandings.

And I don't want you to believe what I'm saying about this.

You should all just ask God for yourselves... and look to those who you know God has sent.

Ray, your tone isn't of that I have heard from My Father and i resent your quoting words that are sacred to those who have been through the temple.

Stop talking down to the members of LDS`Talk. You are no better then anyone else. Your 'abundance of knowledge' is used for the wrong purpose.

It shouldn't surprise you that there have been many complaints about your behavior here. You don't discuss issues, you don't try to teach, you try to put others down. When others call you on something you say that God has told you something therefore it is not wrong.

Do you really feel that you are superior to everyone here? If you are so perfect....why have you not been exalted yet?

[Maureen]

So far its been a very good thread concerning Adam, now, i would very seriously encourage you Moonfire to get your endowment, there it is simply wonderful, as to all you WILL learn9if you pay attention)

If I'm not mistaken I think Moonfire has to decide on baptism first.

M.

[Ray]

Ray, your tone isn't of that I have heard from My Father...

You really don't know what "tone" I am using and I really don't care for those thoughts.

Some of your thoughts are not my thoughts and they also aren't God's thoughts.

And I know that by learning from God.

...and i resent your quoting words that are sacred to those who have been through the temple.

They are sacred to me too, Strawberry, but I don't have a problem with using them.

ALL words from God are sacred to me, and I don't have a problem with using them.

Stop talking down to the members of LDS`Talk.

I am NOT talking "down" to the members of LDS Talk, Strawberry, and I don't care if you think I am.

I know what I'm doing, and I know how I feel. Don't presume to know me more than I do.

You are no better then anyone else.

Do you really believe we're all equal in God's sight, and that He'll treat us all equally?

I know God loves us all, and maybe even equally, but God is not pleased with all people.

Your 'abundance of knowledge' is used for the wrong purpose.

Says who? You? And who are you exactly, again?

Who are you to say what is wrong, or right? What's the difference when I share what I think?

You can think what you want when I share my thoughts with you. I really do not care what you think.

It shouldn't surprise you that there have been many complaints about your behavior here.

Heh, No, it doesn't surprise me at all. Not everyone will agree or love me...

Just like everyone doesn't agree with our prophets and our Savior. Not everyone will agree or love us.

You don't discuss issues, you don't try to teach, you try to put others down.

Wrong, Strawberry. What YOU are doing now is trying to put me down.

I have simply shared my thoughts and how I feel about things.

If you don't like it, you don't have to. I really and truly don't care.

When others call you on something you say that God has told you something therefore it is not wrong.

Duh, well, YEAH!!!

If God tells me something and other people don't agree, I can say they don't agree with what God told me.

Are you trying to get me to agree with other people at the cost of not agreeing with God???

And btw, I don't ALWAYS tell other they are wrong. Sometimes I don't say a word. But sometimes I share what I know God has taught me. And if they don't agree with God, they are wrong.

Do you really feel that you are superior to everyone here?

To EVERYONE here? No, I don't.

There are LOTS of people here who are just as good as I am, and I think some may even be better.

But there are also some who come here who are worse in some ways... though we can all learn to be like God.

If you are so perfect....why have you not been exalted yet?

Heh, because I'm not THAT perfect, yet. :)

Do you think of these questions before you write them down? Some answers should be painfully obvious.

[Dr T]

Hello all/Ray,

I am not ganging up on you Ray. I just took a couple of excerpts from your last post to show that you might want to consider the message you are putting out:

I am NOT talking "down" to the members of LDS Talk, Strawberry, and I don't care if you think I am.

Says who? You? And who are you exactly, again?

Who are you to say what is wrong, or right? What's the difference when I share what I think?

You can think what you want when I share my thoughts with you. I really do not care what you think.

When you say, "I don't care if you think I am" that might be interpreted as talking down to Strawberry.

Also when you say, "...who are you exactly, again?" it sounds like you are saying that she is "no one" to tell you something or at least you devalue her input. Just an observation-please don't come back with an attack on me.

Thank you,

Dr. T

[Ray]

When you say, "I don't care if you think I am" that might be interpreted as talking down to Strawberry.

Heh, I really don''t care how something can be interpreted.

I simply want to know how it truly should be.

And if you want to know me or what I mean by my words, you can always very simply ask me.

And then I will tell you what I meant by those words. I am not trying to keep it a secret.

Also when you say, "...who are you exactly, again?" it sounds like you are saying that she is "no one" to tell you something or at least you devalue her input.

I meant she is "no one" to be telling me something about what I meant

If she wants to truly know what I meant by some words, then she can always very simply ask me.

And if she wants me to know God, I do, thank you. And I don't need to go through any of you.

Just an observation-please don't come back with an attack on me.

Heh, oh come on now, Doc, I couldn't really hurt you very much. I just don't have that in me.

But maybe I could give you just a little jab.

Come on, what do you say...

ON GUARD!!!

[Princess3dward]

I am having a really bad day, and I thing the Spirit finds me too depressing to hang around, so I don't know how guided this is...

but Ray..

I love you,

but quite bluntly...

You don't care enough about anything..

Yes, it is good to learn from God...

But we are ALL children of God....

so you SHOULD care how you treat us,

and if we feel disrespected.

Jesus never made anyone feel like that...

And we want to be like Christ.. right?

Just a thought...

I shall await the storm...

Please keep it small..

I had a really bad day.

[JoshuaFKon]

Desiré, :)

I hope you day gets better :)

Josh B)

P.S. you said:

Yes, it is good to learn from Good...

But we are ALL children of God....

Did you mean "learn from God"? or Learn from "good"

[Princess3dward]

Desiré, :)

I hope you day gets better :)

Josh B)

P.S. you said:

Yes, it is good to learn from Good...

But we are ALL children of God....

Did you mean "learn from God"? or Learn from "good"

[JoshuaFKon]

Ah...thanks that clears it all up for me.....

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

Ah...thanks that clears it all up for me.....

Josh B)

FINALLY!

I SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE TO PEOPLE!... or one person....

[JoshuaFKon]

<div class='quotemain'>

Ah...thanks that clears it all up for me.....

Josh B)

FINALLY!

I SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE TO PEOPLE!... or one person....

You do realize you merely quoted my entire post back to me right?

Josh

[Ray]

For the sake of my posterity and all other people who are now reading this thread...

I'd like you all to know...

I'm on Mod status.

And this is actually my very first time.

It feels kinda strange.

I understand why, though.

It was Strawberry Fields.

She really didn't like what I said.

And she wants me to know that she is a Moderator, and what she really thinks of my thoughts.

So if you're reading this now, she approved them.

Or some other moderator did.

This is strange.

Maybe sometime I'll write a letter, like Paul did while in prison.

I'm feeling very persecuted.

Oh God... please deliver me...

... whenever You see fit, of course.

Ahh.

Thank you.

I now can see the light from the tunnel. :)

[Dr T]

OK, Ray. Just thougth I'd give it a try. Live by the sword die by the sword.

Dr. T

[Ray]

OK, Ray. Just thougth I'd give it a try. Live by the sword die by the sword.

Dr. T

It's not a duel to the death, Doc.

Just a little friendly sparring.

TAKE THIS!!!

[Princess3dward]

For the sake of my posterity and all other people who are now reading this thread...

I'd like you all to know...

I'm on Mod status.

And this is actually my very first time.

It feels kinda strange.

I understand why, though.

It was Strawberry Fields.

She really didn't like what I said.

And she wants me to know that she is a Moderator, and what she really thinks of my thoughts.

So if you're reading this now, she approved them.

Or some other moderator did.

This is strange.

Maybe sometime I'll write a letter, like Paul did while in prison.

I'm feeling very persecuted.

Oh God... please deliver me...

... whenever You see fit, of course.

Ahh.

Thank you.

I now can see the light from the tunnel. :)

I am confused. Are you in trouble?

What is mod status?

[JoshuaFKon]

I am confused. Are you in trouble?

What is mod status?

"'Mod status" I believe means anything he says will be approved by a Moderator before its posted.

Its in the rules:

"Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case/post by post basis.

Offender be placed on moderator status for no less than 2 weeks."

http://www.ldstalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2331

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

I am confused. Are you in trouble?

What is mod status?

"'Mod status" I believe means anything he says will be approved by a Moderator before its posted.

Its in the rules:

"Consequences to these rules could result in the following, and are determined on a case by case/post by post basis.

Offender be placed on moderator status for no less than 2 weeks."

http://www.ldstalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2331

Josh B)

Oh! So everything he posts goes through a mod first?

I think I get it. :)