I'm Tired of Suicidal Thoughts

[Hala401]

I must confess that I wish I had a simpler life, but I am married and we have for children. We don't have car payments, though, and our mortgage is moderate. There are many stresses still. I wish I could take a break. I think that if I get a week off from work for mental health issues, then my manager will be far less likely to recommend me for a promotion I am shooting for. I probably couldn't the handle the promotion anyway....

If I am being nosy, I apologise. I am just trying to help. What is it that you do? Call center work can be awful. Sales calls on the phone or in person are just awful, especially if they are cold calls. Places like Home Depot, and other big box stores are very high stress because they like to run short of people and then guilt trip you into trying to do more than is humanly possible.

I used to work in a Manufacturing Plant that made Chain Saw Chain as an Electrician, doing everything from installing Programable Logic controls to changing the elements on huge furnaces. Some of the work was so frightening that I would scamper off to the bathroom and cry at times. My peers said I was very good, but management was always doing the carrot/donkee thing, making us feel inadequate and prompting us to work harder. After 20 years, I finally could not do it any more and left. They of course acted like I was a murderous traitor; guilt mongers to the end.

So, perhaps if you spoke to a labor counselor or career guideance person? Just making suggestions here, trying to help. Suicide is Not the answer.

[Timpman]

I want to ask a question with professional sincerity: Do you have life insurance?

The reason I ask is because most policies will not pay out a benefit for the first two years due to suicide. If you bought it recently, it would not provide for your family.

I think I have $50,000 through my job. It's over two years old. I applied for more once upon a time but was denied due to my history.

If I am being nosy, I apologise. I am just trying to help. What is it that you do? Call center work can be awful. Sales calls on the phone or in person are just awful, especially if they are cold calls.

You are not being too nosy at all!. I actually do work in a call center. Taking calls was horrific to me. However, I have a different position now I do outbound calls to current customers and it's not bad. I wish I could change careers. I've tried but can't find something that would replace my current income. I was in school last year but failed out due my...wait for it....depression!

[Hala401]

Well, I must admit that I have a prejudice against drugs, and that is because I was once on some very heavy drugs, and not to elaborate, they ruined my life. I still take a small dose of Trazidone at night to stop the nightmares, but it is nothing compared to what was once administered.

Though, it is well proven that some of us must have drugs, and I support that fully.

I will, at least pray for you. So, please do not kill yourself.

[Timpman]

I hate Effexor. I feel like I'm living in a dream, like I am only semi-conscious. I think it works to reduce anxiety by reducing ALL emotions and thoughts. I sometimes think I'm like a zombie. Previous attempts to get rid of the drug have failed.

[pam]

I hate Effexor. I feel like I'm living in a dream, like I am only semi-conscious. I think it works to reduce anxiety by reducing ALL emotions and thoughts. I sometimes think I'm like a zombie. Previous attempts to get rid of the drug have failed.

I'll have to ask what my mom was on. She went through the same thing. Could show absolutely no emotions. When my dad passed away she couldn't even properly grieve because she couldn't feel or display the emotions.

[Hala401]

I hate Effexor. I feel like I'm living in a dream, like I am only semi-conscious. I think it works to reduce anxiety by reducing ALL emotions and thoughts. I sometimes think I'm like a zombie. Previous attempts to get rid of the drug have failed.

In the early 90's I was on Haldol @ 200 mg and I think the clinical dose is around 6-700 mg, so my dosage was minor. I was in a mysoginistic male work group and it insulated me from their harassment. There was no emotion at all, and for that time, it was helpful.

[Yehshen]

Timpman:

1. First of all, I want you to know I am very worried about you and hope you go and get professional help ASAP. I don't think you want to die, I think you want to live, as evidenced by your concern about your wife and kids, about doing a good job, about not taking off because you are up for promotion.

2. Drugs, when properly prescribed, can work wonders for some people. Some drugs numb, although isn't depression a form of numbing. You need someone to deal with you and your needs today, even though you may have seen (what?) 10 mental health professionals in past.

3. Talking to people is also good, and I'll keep reading this thread as long as you wish to keep talking. But I'm going to be _____ (you fill in word) if you disappear and I wonder whether you offed yourself.

4. I've been depressed in the past, but it passes. I grant you that chronic, debillitating depression may take longer to abate, but still don't use suicide to solve a temporary problem.

5. And Vort's statement of suicide affecting other people is absolutely right. Suicide is a form of abandonment: abandonment of yourself, abandonment of your wife and kids, and abandonment of your agency.

OK, rant for the night ended. Please take care of yourself.

[Hala401]

I hate Effexor. I feel like I'm living in a dream, like I am only semi-conscious. I think it works to reduce anxiety by reducing ALL emotions and thoughts. I sometimes think I'm like a zombie. Previous attempts to get rid of the drug have failed.

Timpman:

I am not a Counselor nor do I impersonate one on SNL. You may need the drugs, but I still maintain that DBT helped me a lot. If you can get me your address, I will go out and find a Good DBT book and send it to you. I am that sure of what it did for me.

Are you a Military Veteran? They have a very good program.

[Timpman]

Yehshen, thanks for your concern. I will write tomorrow.

I just want to say that it is inconsiderate to talk about how selfish suicide is. Don't you think I already know!? It only makes me feel worse to hear it. I feel suicidal because I hate myself. How could it help to point out my selfishness? Just remember this.

[Dravin]

Just remember this.

Or what? Look you have issues, seek professional help. At this point you're just looking for people to make you feel good about yourself except even if any of us could it'd just be a temporary salve.

[Timpman]

Just remember that it doesn't help a person to point out selfishness. There is no "or what." There was no threat there. What's wrong with getting a bit of support here? I came here to make it through the day.

[Guest]

Or what? Look you have issues, seek professional help. At this point you're just looking for people to make you feel good about yourself except even if any of us could it'd just be a temporary salve.

Read his posts. He has by his own admission sought professional help for years and years and is still seeking it. So, if you read his opening post, you will see that he's not really here to get armchair psychologists, although he's been open to suggestions. He's here to get some comfort. So, let's all help him out, okay?

Suicidal tendencies are selfish, yes. Just like it is the utmost stupidity and evilness to throw a knife at somebody when I get mad. We all know that. Just like I also know that when the rage is in full force, I literally see red, my sane voice is crowded out of my brain so much so that I feel disembodied - like I'm looking at myself from up above wondering, "who is this bee-atch?" and utterly helpless to do something about it. Somebody pointing out to me how selfish that is will not change the helplessness. I'm not stupid. I know it is selfish and evil. It only makes me more upset, elevating the risk of another rage episode.

Yeah, unfortunately, we don't have the "you guys better understand our struggles and accept our nature and show compassion" lobby like the GLBT folks. And no, we don't want one...

[Dravin]

He's here to get some comfort. So, let's all help him out, okay?

So he is just seeking people to make him feel good about himself. So it sounds like that was accurate. He's just looking for it to get him through the day, so it sounds like all the comfort he may be getting is just a temporary salve. So that part sounds accurate as well. He has issues, so that's accurate. Sounds like there isn't any objection to the idea he should be seeking professional help. So that sounds accurate as well.

Looks like my post is four for four.

Yeah, unfortunately, we don't have the "you guys better understand our struggles and accept our nature and show compassion" lobby like the GLBT folks. And no, we don't want one...

Why is it unfortunate that you don't have it if you don't want it?

Edited April 17, 2012 by Dravin

[FunkyTown]

so he is just seeking people to make him feel good about himself. So it sounds like that was accurate. Hes just looking for it to get him through the day, so it sounds like all the comfort he may be getting is just a temporary salve. So that part sounds accurate as well. He has issues, so that's accurate. Sounds like there isn't any objection to the idea he should be seeking professional help. So that sounds accurate as well.

Looks like my post is four for four.

Why is it unfortunate that you don't have it if you don't want it?

zing!

[Dravin]

What's wrong with getting a bit of support here? I came here to make it through the day.

There is nothing wrong with seeking comfort. The issue is that talking about suicide is an inherently charged position. If you did commit suicide some of people are going to reflect on this thread, and any others like it that may be forthcoming, and wonder if they didn't say the right thing, or if offering their opinion on suicide pushed you over the edge. In essence they will blame themselves in some small way for your decision. I'm glad you weren't intending it as a threat but you're in a position where it's a thin line between, "When you say that it makes me feel worse." and "Saying stuff like that makes me want to commit suicide."

It's like a spouse sharing that they are thinking about getting a divorce. It hangs out in the back of every request and complaint. It's no longer, "Will you wash the dishes tonight?" it becomes, "Will you wash the dishes tonight? If you don't I may just decided to go ahead with the divorce."

Edited April 17, 2012 by Dravin

[Guest]

So he is just seeking people to make him feel good about himself. So it sounds like that was accurate. He's just looking for it to get him through the day, so it sounds like all the comfort he may be getting is just a temporary salve. So that part sounds accurate as well. He has issues, so that's accurate. Sounds like there isn't any objection to the idea he should be seeking professional help. So that sounds accurate as well.

Looks like my post is four for four.

Why is it unfortunate that you don't have it if you don't want it?

You don't get it.

Yes, he is seeking people to make him feel good about himself. You get help anywhere you can find it. The point of the exercise is that he IS trying to seek it. Yes, it is a temporary salve... trust me, nothing on LDS.net can be a permanent salve for problems such as these.

HE IS seeking professional help. You can't get that kind of medication without one. Telling him to seek one is like telling a sick guy in the hospital to please seek medical attention.

It's unfortunate because sadly, the struggling-with-themselves people can't get compassion unless you got a loud lobby to fight for your cause and get the Church to "work towards understanding" of what you are struggling with. So, if you don't want that kind of attention like the GLBT pestering the "normal" folks, you end up with... diminishing your struggles to... plain selfish.

I am not posting to argue with your accurate-ness. I'm posting because right now, you are not helping and more like - value negative. A change in tone would be most welcome.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Sorry, Timpman, just trying to get you through your day today. You okay?

[Dravin]

It's unfortunate because sadly, the struggling-with-themselves people can't get compassion unless you got a loud lobby to fight for your cause and get the Church to "work towards understanding" of what you are struggling with.

Then how do you explain the contents of this thread? Are you really arguing that nobody has shown him compassion in this thread? If not you have a fundamental flaw in your thesis.

diminishing your struggles to... plain selfish.

If anything is being diminished to 'plain selfish' it would be the proposed solution to the pain, not the pain itself. I may have missed it but I don't see anyone suggesting being depressed is selfish.

And that's all I have to say about that.

I guess we'll see. Edited April 17, 2012 by Dravin

[Guest]

Then how do you explain the contents of this thread? Are you really arguing that nobody has shown him compassion in this thread? If not you have a fundamental flaw in your thesis.

The contents of the thread was fine because people that have struggled with the same problems piped up... but then the selfishness comments cropped up and it got value subtracted. And that's why I keep on mentioning the GLBT stuff. It's really very much the same. You start a thread with that on here and you'll see the ones who have "understood" and then you'll see the ones who simplify the issue to "being gay is a selfish choice". It took a GBLT lobby to change people's minds about it.

If anything is being diminished to 'plain selfish' it would be the proposed solution to the pain, not the pain itself. I may have missed it but I don't see anyone suggesting being depressed is selfish.

This is why I don't think you get it at all. Offing oneself in this case is not a proposed solution. It's a strong inclination for self-harm contrary to the "sane side" of the person. It's a war inside. Somebody who off's himself as an attention-getting method or an "easy escape" or a drug-induced removal from reality may be guilty of selfishness for the chosen solution. Those two are not the same and that's what I've been trying to make you understand. I, of course, am basing my understanding of the situation with what the OP said that resonates with my own struggles.

I guess we'll see.

Ah yes. I'm trying to make you understand. I failed. It's worth another shot. I'm hoping we can discuss it without the need to have to "win". Or something. This is not about you or me. This is about Timpman.

[Dravin]

The contents of the thread was fine because people that have struggled with the same problems piped up...

So you are claiming the only people who have compassion to those contemplating suicide have contemplated suicide themselves? Well I can prove you wrong on at least one count. I'm sure there are others.

Offing oneself in this case is not a proposed solution.

Yes it is. It's a proposed solution for the feelings experienced by the individual. It may be an incomplete solution or ineffective solution but if someone commits suicide as an attention getting mechanism, for instance, they've used it as a solution to the problem of not having attention. Edited April 17, 2012 by Dravin

[Timpman]

Dravin, I've said twice that I don't have a plan to do anything harmful to myself.

I've been depressed in the past, but it passes. I grant you that chronic, debillitating depression may take longer to abate, but still don't use suicide to solve a temporary problem.

Yehshen, I think this will pass. I am in a rut right now. However, this is obviously a long-term problem for me and I realize I need to do something about it. I need to work on my cognitive distortions.

[Guest]

So you are claiming the only people who have compassion to those contemplating suicide have contemplated suicide themselves? Well I can prove you wrong on at least one count. I'm sure there are others.

Nope, I never said that. I said... IN THIS THREAD... there were lots of support and such from people who have experienced the same struggles.

And here we are again... prove me wrong. You don't have to. This is not about who got it wrong or right, accurate or inaccurate, whatever. We're not in competition, Dravin.

Yes it is. It's a proposed solution for the feelings experienced by the individual. It may be an incomplete solution or ineffective solution but if someone commits suicide as an attention getting mechanism, for instance, they've used it as a solution to the problem of not having attention.

DRAVIN! Try to understand this:

1.) People like me and Timpman who have a "dark passenger" that gives us the strong inclination for self-harm...

IS DIFFERENT FROM

2.) People who commits suicide as an attention getting mechanism.

The first set do not want to die. That's not a proposed solution for them! They seek help so they won't die! The second set is a proposed solution to the lack of attention. TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

C'mon, Dravin... at least I can make you understand that one? I don't know how else to explain it in my foreign language English.

[Hala401]

For a long time after my divorce, I would get depressed and to sit on the rail of the bridge, or call crisis line, or even go to Hospital for a few days.

Then after after treatment for many months, I'd get depressed and call counselor, eat Ice Creme, take hot bath, or watch good movie.

It seems lately that when a bit of depression overtakes me, I call someone who needs help, chat on forum, or get busy doing one of my Relief Society assignments.

In my case, it was a learned response to the depressive cycle. I am not saying it is for everyone, and maybe I really do not have a chemically induced depressive cycle.

For me it was learning to be a real, independent person because I had never been allowed to make my own decisions. I had to learn to be an adult.

[Dravin]

Nope, I never said that. I said... IN THIS THREAD... there were lots of support and such from people who have experienced the same struggles.

Not everyone who has piped up does share that same struggle. Which rather harpoons the idea that you need a lobby or to have experienced something simular to have compassion. You went from:

You need a lobby for compassion -> Well it's possible if you've experienced something simular.

My counterpoint? It's possible without having experienced something simular, it works right back up the thought chain to discredit your origional thesis. You don't need a lobby for people to have compassion, nor do they have to have experienced something simular.

This is not about who got it wrong or right, accurate or inaccurate, whatever.

Yes it is. Because if you're inaccurate enough your position isn't worth adopting. That's the issue. It's not, aha you are wrong so I score 50 wataloohs! It's you're wrong, your position is off base, you are reaching a premise on a flawed foundation and why on earth would I want to share it with you?

If you didn't think my thought process was off base you'd not be talking to me about this right now. It is about being right or wrong, correct or incorrect, on base or off base. If it wasn't you never would have responded to my post initially.

People like me and Timpman who have a "dark passenger" that gives us the strong inclination for self-harm...

And self-harm wouldn't be sought unless there was a perceived benefit on some level. You're talking about people self-harming for the heck of it. I don't buy it. On some level the desire for self harm is going to be a response to a perceived benefit in that self harming. Timp talked about how he wants to commit suicide (even if he's not going to) because he hates himself. Suicide is perceived as a solution to the problem of him hating himself else the connection wouldn't be there.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Dravin

[Dravin]

Dravin, I've said twice that I don't have a plan to do anything harmful to myself.

The spectre of suicide is raised nontheless, and as such it adds a charge to the conversation that wouldn't be there if this thread was entitled, "Having a hard time, could use some cheering up." It doesn't mean you can't talk about it by any means, but it is something to keep in mind with your communications.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Dravin

[Timpman]

Can Dravin just stop posting on this thread?

4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Timpman