Power struggles

[Wingnut]

My oldest daughter just turned four over the weekend. She is mostly a good girl, a loving big sister, and usually a pleasure to be around.

Lately though, she's been more belligerent than usual, and (to a control freak like me), it's a bit aggravating. I understand that kids go through phases, and she'll eventually move on, but I need to figure out how to get us both productively through this one.

What she's doing really is demonstrating/asserting her control over things -- specifically over her choices.

My childhood and teenage years were full of power struggles and control issues between my mom and I, and I resented her for many many years because of it. We had a really rocky relationship for a long time. I'd like to not repeat that with my own daughters.

At the same time, obviously I'd like my daughter to obey me, as well as help out around the house in appropriate ways for her (picking up her own dirty clothes, toys, etc.)

I've tried giving multiple alternatives ("You can pick up the books in here, or the clothes in your room"), trading privileges ("You need to pick up your toys if you want a cupcake after dinner"), bribery ("You can play with my iPod while you sit with your sister and keep her happy while I make dinner"), and just plain outright ordering her to do things (which rarely works). Lately I feel like there has been an awful lot of whining and tantrum-throwing, which result in her retreating to her room (sometimes by choice, and sometimes because I tell her to).

So my point (and question) in all this is: how have you helped balance control (for the kids) and obedience (for you) in your families?

(Do you think I could find any more ways to use parentheses in this post?)

(How about like this?)

(Posting now.)

(No really.)

:)

[annewandering]

Refuse to battle. She is finding out she is an independent person, which is really great. She is lucky you understand how much like you she is. I really have no other ideas, besides not engaging battle, than those you are using. I especially like giving her choices. It helps her feel in control of her life besides actually helping her to learn to make choices.

[Suzie]

What I think it works wonderfully for children at this stage is when you talk positively to others about them since they love praise. When a friend of yours calls, when you are talking to your mom or when you are chatting with your husband you can say things like "You should have seen Emma today! She cleaned up her room and helped me do this or that....She is such a great help! I don't know what I would do without her!". Children tend to imitate the positive behavior because they enjoy hearing that from their parents. Of course it will work only if you do it for an extended period of time instead of doing it once or twice and expect a miracle. lol

[Guest]

I have boys, but I think at this age, they're about the same with girls.

My defiant child surfaced at around 3 1/2 years old. He use to say, "No" to me a lot. "Pick up your toys.", "No.". Grrr.

We made house rules around that time. Basically a list of IF... THEN stuff. If you don't clean up after playing, then you will not be able to play with that toy for one full week. That kind of stuff. My kids couldn't read yet at that age but they had good memories. So, I made the list for me and my husband and remind the kids what's on the list when it crops up. This way, my husband and I are consistent with the cause-and-effect. We don't blur the lines. When we say you're not getting dessert if you don't eat the vegetables, we don't cave in even when he's looking at the cake with tears in his eyes and giving us this, please please mommy look. Consistency was very important then.

Another thing we did was that we concentrated more on rewards than punishments. We had a daily chart with things on it like "cleaned up the toys", "ate vegetables", etc. The boys used to love those glittery stickers that gets put on the chart. Then when the week is filled and the entire line has stickers, it gets checked and we give out special rewards like having as many hours of TV-time as there are lines checked. At that age, my boys were easily excited about having "goals".

And lastly, I pick my battles. There are times when the kids just get too hard-headed that I would shut down and ignore an event to save up my energies for a more important event. Kept me sane.

[Mahone]

I have boys, but I think at this age, they're about the same with girls.

My defiant child surfaced at around 3 1/2 years old. He use to say, "No" to me a lot. "Pick up your toys.", "No.". Grrr.

We made house rules around that time. Basically a list of IF... THEN stuff. If you don't clean up...

Looking after children for programmers 101. Ah. So what about ELSE?

Edited April 26, 2012 by Mahone

[Dravin]

Looking after children for programmers 101. Ah. So what about ELSE?

Wouldn't that be looking after children for programmers 001100010011000000110001 or 313031?

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dravin

[Guest]

Looking after children for programmers 101. Ah. So what about ELSE?

I almost fell off my chair laughing at this... then I calmed down and realized... whoa... I really do try to treat my kids like programs. EEEK!

[JudoMinja]

What I'm doing with my three-year-old, and which seems to be working fairly well, is I have a rule that whatever he has out must be picked up and put away before he can do something new. Say, for example, he has his cars out, but now is asking me to play a matching game with him. I simply tell him that if he wants me to play the game, he must first pick up the cars. Sometimes he refuses or even throws a fit, but if he does- I just shrug my shoulders and put the matching game up where he can't reach, then ignore him. He usually very quickly gets the idea that I won't play until he's picked up the mess. He then puts the cars away with no argument, I praise him for his good work, get the matching game down, and play with him. :)

This works well because it prevents the place becoming an utter disaster before any cleaning gets done, and it teaches him that he has to clean up after himself before he gets to do new fun stuff. They do basically the same thing at his day-care, and all the kids there know when it is time to do something new they have to clean up their messes first.

Now my son isn't an angel. He's going through his power struggles too, but I don't really have any problems with him with regards to toys. I think that the key is to (whenever possible) not allow the situation to even become a power struggle. Find ways around the struggle so that you don't become engaged in an argument or battle with your child. You should be able to simply state an expectation and then leave the child to mull over whether or not they are going to fulfill that expectation- while you go about doing your grown-up business. It's good to give them choices- just make sure the choices have the results you want.

With your example, I would suggest- instead of offering a choice to pick up the books or the clothes, offer a choice to pick up everything (since that's the real goal) with help or without. If your child makes a big fuss about it, say that means they're choosing to have no help and leave the mess until the child cleans it on their own. Another possibility is to offer the child a choice to have the toys/books/etc to play with later or not. If they pick them up, that means they want/get to play with them later. If you pick them up, that means they get put up on a closet shelf or in the garage and cannot be returned until they are earned through the doing of chores.

If you like those suggestions and they work for you, I would get "Parenting with Love and Logic: Magic for Early Childhood". That is the book I pulled those ideas from. :)

[ClickyClack]

Here's my take on it...

Kids are going to try to explore boundaries. It's just how kids are. It's up to you to maintain the boundaries. You already knew that, of course. The question is... how?

I've found a few things key in my parenting:

1. Always speak nicely and respectfully, even if they're not, and even if you're mad. The more nicely and respectfully I speak, the more they are able to take away and learn for the future. Getting mad or yelling may solve it now, but won't lead to lasting life lessons.

2. Make the boundaries clear, and the consequences clear. Take time BEFORE the problems arise, to talk about boundaries and consequences in a nice manner, and talk about WHY those boundaries are there.

3. When they push the boundaries, be firm, consistent, and positive. "You know that XYZ isn't allowed, and that the consequence is ABC. Let's get through this and try to do better next time."

4. If they do something you haven't talked about, take it as a teaching time. "Hey, that's not something we should do, let's talk about why." Tell them why, tell them what the consequences will be, and tell them that they're expected to follow that advice in the future.

You're going to find yourself doing that over, and over, and over, and over, and OVER, to the point where you want to scream "DON'T YOU FREAKING GET IT?" But keep your cool, it's part of parenting. Kids aren't short adults, their brains aren't fully wired, and they don't think like we do.

Another thing that I've found GOLDEN is this: "I'd be happy to keep talking with you about this, when you're speaking as nicely as I am now. Until then, take some time to calm down in your room, and when you're ready to talk like I am, then come back out."

Good luck!

Edited April 30, 2012 by ClickyClack

[Guest]

Parenting with Love and Logic and Parenting Your Spirited Child have become the bulk of our parenting technique.

Basically, you lay out expectations as well as logical consequences for not meeting them. Don't give more than one warning, and follow through consistently. Find out what their currency is, whether it's screen time or play time with friends or play-doh or whatever, and it can be a powerful tool either for a reward or a consequence.

For my especially stubborn child, what works best is having her sit on the stairs until she's willing to cooperate.

Being consistent is the most important thing. Any change in that, and they'll call you out on it and/or try to use it against you. It's hard! But after awhile, they get it. They still buck against you, but they know that they don't get what they want until they do what's expected of them.

Our rule is, we're a family, we all help the household run. If you want privileges beyond food, clothing, and shelter, you do your part.

Parenting is way harder than I ever thought it would be, but as our kids get older we're starting to see the fruits of our labors. We're strict, but they are happy. They are delightful not just for us to be around, but for other people, too. We're constantly complimented on how well-behaved, engaging, and happy our kids are. Children who are given a part to play and boundaries are happy children.

[Wingnut]

Thanks so far everyone. I have a copy of Love & Logic borrowed from my mother-in-law, but I haven't read it yet. Sounds like maybe it's time.

[EarlJibbs]

Really I dont think you have to worry alot about her attitude at 3-4 years of age. What I would focus on is your attitude when those things happen and keep an eye out later for other signs that lead to bigger problems.

My wife and I are handling a 7 year old with anxiety, which often times comes in the form of defiance and tantrums that do not end for quite some time and only when we can do breathing techniques with her. I mention this because the way I react to her usually determines the next hour or so of dealing with her. Couldnt love her more though.