Autism

[emilyhope]

Hi I have a 3 year old birthday Jan 25 who could and most likely does have some form of Autism. He does the hand flapping when he gets too excited and he at one time did head banging and had a hard time with eye contact BUT not so much anymore, thankfully. He is actually very smart he can count to five and sometimes with out error to ten. He knows the alphabet song and colors, we've worked with him and he was on baby net at one time...

Well the issue I'm currently seeking advise in is our ward in SC has about 15 kids in Nursery that is on the high end but it varies more or less. Then in the Sunbeam class there is only 4. Children with autism and really any child with a short attention span do better in a smaller classroom, everyone knows that. Well I asked around and the Sister in charge of Sunbeams had no problem with my son in her class. But everyone else in Primary did... I'm not trying to break any rules or get special treatment. As a mother I just want whats best for my children all of them, and I know he could get so much more out of Church on Sunday. Isn't that what we all want for our children, Landon loves church so much and he talks about Jesus and God, and he loves reading / singing hymns.

So where do I go from here?

[Guest]

My advice:

1.) See a child specialist.

2.) Is he acting out in nursery? Or is this just your conviction that he would learn more in Sunbeam? If he's acting out in nursery and doing fine in Sunbeam, then make the case to the Primary Presidency and gain their approval. If he's handling nursery just fine then let Primary run its natural course, have him finish out nursery, and he'll be in Sunbeam in January.

"He could get so much more out of Church on Sunday"... this is confusing statement to me. There's a LOT to learn in nursery. There's gospel class and singing time there too and they get snack time! I don't see the reason for rushing things unless the other kids are driving him bat crazy.

[emilyhope]

Nursery is just playtime at our ward Landon is at the age where he is asking questions and seeking those early fundamentals that he could be receiving in a regular Sunday School classroom like the one I went to when I was little, I grew up Southern Baptist.

So why should I try to argue with a Primary President about what I know is best and a more conducive learning environment for my child.

There is no rush, but he is not learning songs in there and they don't get more than a brief literally 1 to 2 minute lesson.

They need to have a classroom for 1-2 yr olds and separate the 2-3 yr olds, and so on. Landon will be a few day away from 4 years old before can go into Sunbeams... Now how is a 4 year old supposed to learn anything with a bunch of 18 month olds screaming under tables?

The system and rule book needs revamping and I know I'm not the only Mom who thinks this.

[Guest]

Nursery is just playtime at our ward Landon is at the age where he is asking questions and seeking those early fundamentals that he could be receiving in a regular Sunday School classroom like the one I went to when I was little, I grew up Southern Baptist.

So why should I try to argue with a Primary President about what I know is best and a more conducive learning environment for my child.

There is no rush, but he is not learning songs in there and they don't get more than a brief literally 1 to 2 minute lesson.

They need to have a classroom for 1-2 yr olds and separate the 2-3 yr olds, and so on. Landon will be a few day away from 4 years old before can go into Sunbeams... Now how is a 4 year old supposed to learn anything with a bunch of 18 month olds screaming under tables?

The system and rule book needs revamping and I know I'm not the only Mom who thinks this.

Ahh, then the problem is the nursery program. I'm the Singing Time Leader in my ward. We have singing time in nursery. It's my favorite part of Sunday! Yes, we have kids between 1 1/2 - 3 1/2 year olds in nursery. One of them can read! I'm a Montessori advocate so I actually prefer that environment. The younger kids learn from the older kids and the older kids learn to lead the class. The teachers and the singing time leader (that's me) habitually ask the older children to lead the class. It reinforces their learning.

For example - one of my singing time songs goes like this - I have 3 boxes - one has the label Celestial with a picture of the sun, the other is Terrestrial with a picture of the moon, the other is Telestial with a picture of a star. Then I spread around pictures of children all over the mat. When we start singing, the kids pick up a picture of a child and put it in the "Celestial Kingdom". We sing I Am A Child of God or Families Can Be Together Forever while the kids find the Celestial Kingdom. The older kids understand the concept while the 18-month-olds really just want to grab a box and shove a picture in it... the older kids are the ones telling the younger kids - No! Put him in the sun! The teachers and myself just keep on singing... I used this song for Chapters 1,2,11,12,13 of the manual. When it's about Family, I put a picture of Mom and Dad in the Celestial Box first.

We have the same size Nursery as you. We have 2 nursery teachers and usually a parent or two that stays to assist (or maybe they just want snacks. hah!). I'm in the class for 15 minutes.

[Wingnut]

I understand the idea of a smaller group being beneficial, but also consider that your son might learn better when he is older, rather than younger. A more effective course of action might be to discuss with the Primary President splitting the Nursery into two classes (assuming you have available classrooms in your building). We have three Nursery classes in my ward, with seven-ish children in each, and they're divided by age...oldest, youngest, and those in between.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Wingnut

[applepansy]

First and foremost, he need an official diagnosis so that he can receive whatever services are available in your area. I have an autistic nephew whose mother refused early intervention and now he's 16. Its very sad. He could have been so much better if he had gotten the help when he was younger.

Second, Talk to your bishop about the issues. That's where it needs to start. In our ward and others I've heard about sometimes someone is "called" to be a special teacher for the child with special issues.

If I was in your shoes I wouldn't move him up to Sunbeams early there are other issues. I would get the diagnosis and the early intervention, then I would go to Nursery with him. Your child comes first. So if you have a calling that requires you to be somewhere else then you ask to be released (again go see the Bishop). As his mother you do what is best for him.

The hand flapping and the head banging are not always signs of autism. Get him Diagnosed! We are helping our son raise his son. Mom is not in the picture. My grandson did the head banging. It was because he was having emotions he didn't know how to handle. We're over that for the most part now and he's 4yo.

As for being three and very smart. Most of this generation of little ones are very smart. Its downright scary sometimes just how smart they are. Most of the toddlers now will be reading before Kindergarten...at least the ones I know (over 15). My sisters are seeing the same thing (both are RNs). They are learning from their surroundings even when their parents aren't deliberately teaching them.

Now about nursery being playtime. I'd be talking to the Bishop about that too. They should be learning to sit still, fold their arms and have a short lesson. They aren't too young to be learning. We have play time in nursery too, but it is not all they do. They have a lesson first, then play time, then snacks. Usually three prayers...opening, closing and blessing the snacks. Nursery isn't babysitting.

[lds2]

Hi, I have a son that has autism that is also very smart, however my son is now in his teens.

He was severely autistic when he was younger but had some eye contact and would interact for a time and so many people thought he was just really a stinker rather than autistic. On the hard side he melted down if things in his environment changed too much and his receptive language at 2 and 3 was very low compared to his age (I didn't know that before testing.) Mostly he used those around him as a tool to get what he wanted and relationship skills beyond playing very structured games with others like video games (I have a lot of boys) were not on the radar.

I almost cancelled his diagnosis appointment because he was so smart and he didn't do the flapping and other typical ASD movements. Fortunately, I did take him to the appointment where 17 people were involved and even with all of his strengths they found that he was severe in his social/relationship abilities...and he was smart! reading when he was four and could out play some of his older brothers on their video games when he was three.

He has had thousands of hours of one on one therapy since then and what I can tell you is that for children that are smart the academic learning is the least of their problems...and gospel lessons can be done in family home evening or through daily conversation.

In nursery he is in the better environment to work on issues of autism which mostly have to do with developing and keeping relationships, being kind and thinking of others, playing with rather than beside other children, etc. Interaction is key which is not as likely to happen once he gets into sunbeams. For some kids it can be important to overcome being overwhelmed by chaotic environments, etc. Relationship skills are much better learned in a play environment.

If I had it to do over again I would have learned the RDI parent driven method of therapy where they teach you to teach him relationship skills mostly through play and I would have been in nursery with him. ABA was okay but very expensive and they mostly focus on language and academic skills...play skills which are what he really needed were saved for "breaks" and supervised play dates and still lacking those relationship skills is still a huge handicap for making and keeping relationships now that he is older. However, what they teach may have changed in the past 10 years. I am very proud of him, he is an eagle scout, very responsible, the nicest kid around and he surpassed me in math a book or two ago...and he is just starting his junior year in high school, is a talented and avid golfer, etc. None of those things reallly matter to him as he has no close friends and the likelihood of his developing any in the future is rather remote, also lack of relationship skills will most likely impact his ability to get and keep a job and court and marry and have a normal family life in the future.

But like others have said, your son may not have ASD as many "symptoms" of ASD are normal, just not all at once. I had people telling me that their child head banged, or melted down often or had delayed speech, had food issues, etc. ... and they outgrew it and for some that is true. But having true experts decide can relieve a lot of anxiety if that is not the case and can give other therapy options if needed that can be very helpful over the longterm.

At least you are open to the idea. I taught nursery a couple of years ago and there was a boy there that is autistic...very severe I think. I believe that because he lost language and regressed and in nursery acted as if there was no one else in the room mowing other kids over to get what he wanted like bubbles or toys, not looking at others faces much, melting down often, he screamed during singing time because of auditory issues, had issues with touch, would take others food and thought nothing of it, etc. This boy is still not talking much and has to have someone with him most of the time to function in Sunbeams and is taken in the corner to play by the primary presidency during sharing time so that he isn't at the front of the room disrupting as he doesn't sit and listen and wants to be chosen for everything and if he isn't he does it anyway. Even though he isn't talking much he does learning games showing that he understands concepts such as colors and numbers, etc. The parents are still in denial the mother saying that she was uncontrollable as a child and outgrew it and that he will too and believes that a label would harm him more than help him. But this is a very severe child, fortunately many children with ASD are not that severe.

If you desire services it is important to get on waiting lists ASAP. Where I lived it took 8 months of being on a waiting list for the diagnosis appointment and then another 6 months on a waiting list until a space became available to begin remediation...and that is a lot of time lost when best outcomes begin with early diagnosis and intervention. Depending on where you live there may not be many services available even after being diagnosed. That is another reason why I really like the RDI method...as you don't have to wait as much for others as it is the parents doing it and you can do it without a diagnosis. If a child is autistic group learning is not where they learn the social skills needed to be successful in life as it takes intensive one-on-one to "catch them up" to other kids and in mary areas preschool can be the only service available for higher functioning kids which is more babysitting rather than remediation for autism I believe. But best outcome scenarios are not always doable as for various reason we can only do what we can do...

This is just an opinion from one who has been there... my very best wishes my friend.

Edited August 3, 2012 by lds2

[classylady]

My grandson was diagnosed with Aspergers around the age of 6/7. We didn't know what was going on with him prior to that. It was a relief to know. When he was a sunbeam the bishop assigned him a special helper. She wasn't his primary teacher, but she would sit with him in primary class and during sharing time. She was his special helper for several years and my grandson absolutely adored her. He no longer needs his helper, and he still has issues, but he is learning the social skills that are necessary to get along with others, and how he should properly behave. He is very smart. He was reading at a 10th grade level by the time he was 7. It's the social skills that are lacking. When he was diagnosed, the doctor said what would help my grandson is to involve him with activities with children his own age. Children with Aspergers tend to socialize with those who either are older or younger than them. They have a hard time socializing with children their own age.

I would definitely talk to the Bishop about the nursery. There is a format that should be followed. It shouldn't all be play time.

[ClickyClack]

I assume that you're seeing a specialist, if not, you should.

One of the autistic people that I know, a young girl, started out with the most common and glaring attributes common to that affliction. Through work with specialists for years, she has become so good in those areas that it entirely surprising, and her level of function has risen so much that it is astounding.

Anyway, your primary shouldn't have a problem with him if he isn't acting out to abnormal levels. One of the autistic children in our ward does have quite a bit of trouble with acting out and causing trouble, so her mother just sits with her in sharing time each week to help the teacher, then the girl goes to the smaller class by herself, and it works out quite well.

The other autistic children that are in primary now, or have been over the years, have just gone by themselves and the primary leadership have always gone out of their way to help and take care of them.

[IamMe]

I have 2 autistic sons, one moderately affected, one severely. My moderately affected son is partially verbal ( he is verbal, but there's also a severe articulation disorder involved and as such what he does say is very garbled) he's 8.

My other son is 3, completely non verbal, and at this time I don't see that ever changing.

I can't stress enough how important an early diagnosis & early intervention is for your son. The time for that is NOW. The more help he receives prior to school, the better off he will be.

I guess I should mention my 2 sons are only 2 of 10 (8 siblings)

We've come into a few obstacles within the church sunday school program, and all I can do is tell you what we've done so far to help.

My 8 year old is at that magical age... at this point, after discussions with the bishop, he won't be baptized. He doesn't have the understanding of what baptism is or why it's done. Instead, so he didn't lose out the bishop took him to the front of the chapel and introduced him to the ward just as he would any new convert or 8 yr old. Until (if) he is able to understand those covenants of baptism, he is seen as a perfect spirit, and as such doesn't need to be baptized.

As for nursery with my 3 yr old... First he's very infantile. Along with the autism, he also has a chromosome duplicate on 16p (that alone causes him to be very short, unable to gain weight, low muscle tone etc) and has tourette's. (the poor kid got everything) He is 3, but to see him he looks and acts like he's about 12 months. He just learned to walk in the past few months.

He attends nursery as any child would his age. He's included in everything. Though because he is so infantile, they called an assistant for him. Same type of calling as any other, but this is a calling just for him, they carry him, (his low muscle tone makes walking hard), they hold him, they feed him...they love him.

[zippy_do46]

I think it is very important that these "little ones" stay with their age group as much as possible. This will be the group of kids that will be there with him as he goes through the youth programs. If handled correctly I believe this will build relationships with their youth groups. Yes, that little word "if",

For example we had our "special one" also. One Sunday as Primary President I changed my whole sharing time when he was not there. I talked to the other children about those "little ones" who had special needs and what Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ would want them to do. I explained that sometimes it might be even scary when they do things that startle you and etc. I also explained to them that because of their difference that sometimes it was scary for them. The song that have the words about not walking away because you are different really tell it all. We must teach the children that sometimes it is hard but it is what our Heavenly Father expects from us. The results of that sharing time was life building for us all. Those very children would include him into activities. They even suggested a part for him in our Primary Program. A couple of the boys would even go with him to the bathroom to open doors and make sure he didn't fall. They offered to carry his plate when we had Church activities without prompting. They were there for him in the scouting program. They saw his need even before the leadership did. Then they acted.

[Bhodi]

Hi I have a 3 year old birthday Jan 25 who could and most likely does have some form of Autism. He does the hand flapping when he gets too excited and he at one time did head banging and had a hard time with eye contact BUT not so much anymore, thankfully. He is actually very smart he can count to five and sometimes with out error to ten. He knows the alphabet song and colors, we've worked with him and he was on baby net at one time...

Well the issue I'm currently seeking advise in is our ward in SC has about 15 kids in Nursery that is on the high end but it varies more or less. Then in the Sunbeam class there is only 4. Children with autism and really any child with a short attention span do better in a smaller classroom, everyone knows that. Well I asked around and the Sister in charge of Sunbeams had no problem with my son in her class. But everyone else in Primary did... I'm not trying to break any rules or get special treatment. As a mother I just want whats best for my children all of them, and I know he could get so much more out of Church on Sunday. Isn't that what we all want for our children, Landon loves church so much and he talks about Jesus and God, and he loves reading / singing hymns.

So where do I go from here?

Are you still looking for help? I know some people in your area that could help if you need it.

[AaronArthur]

I am so grateful that there is so much help for people that fall on the autistic spectrum today. I was diagnosed latter in life and have gone through life with the hardest time in interacting with others. Most normal people can read body language witch is grater then 75% of human communication. Those that are autistic can not express or read body language. This handy cap impaired me in social setting as church. It also impaired me from inter active play. I found that parallel play was easier for me to understand. I look at life based on concrete laws and not abstract. Every human has a different set of rules that they live by. As someone with ausberger syndrome or functioning autism I Look for the If then statements in every human interaction. If I do this then this will happen and if it does not then I do not understand the social rule and must look for that understanding so that I can interact with others. Now a church setting has 100 families per war. Could you imagine the difficulty of trying to figure out 100 concrete laws for each family? This is what I think a professional does by allowing a person with autism to cope with an abstract world that he or she will never understand.