Gospel Principles: Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family

[alexamasan]

Hello everyone,

I just want to make sure with you guys I am not misinterpreting what I am learning, so I'm going to rewrite what I think the parts gospel principle means and I hope you can give feedback on whether I have it right or not.

So everyone who was ever born on the earth was once a heavenly spirit in heaven and we were with God. In order for us to mature and gain our Godly qualities and be like him, we had to leave the "nest" of heaven. We had to leave to gain experience to develop our Godly qualities and so that is why we came to earth with physical bodies. The trials we face on earth are what help gain our Godly nature when we overcome them.

While we're here, we choose whether to follow God or not. Our memories of when we were in heaven are currently blocked off so we choose God by faith rather than our memory of him. Our physical bodies will die and then later we are resurrected.

Do I understand correctly so far?

[annewandering]

Sounds right to me. :)

[alexamasan]

Sounds right to me. :)

Thank you annewandering.

So now this brings up questions for me.

Just to make sure I'm not assuming, can any of you help me understand what it means to have our divine qualities developed once we are resurrected? How is someone who has followed God's plan, went through the trials, and developed his Divine nature, different from someone who has not yet developed his Divine nature.

[bytebear]

So, we believe that all mankind who was born will be resurrected. But the order of resurrection will be based on criteria of worthiness. There will be 1000 years of peace and after that will come the judgement, so our resurrection is a pre-judgement, but not final judgement. After the final judgement we are deemed worthy to live with God, and to continue to progress. So damnation is an end to progression.

Edited August 17, 2012 by bytebear

[alexamasan]

Thank you

Does the natural man have a tendency to sin? As we develop our divine qualities, we gradually overcome our sins? Is that an appropriate way to look at the situation?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Hello everyone,

I just want to make sure with you guys I am not misinterpreting what I am learning, so I'm going to rewrite what I think the parts gospel principle means and I hope you can give feedback on whether I have it right or not.

So everyone who was ever born on the earth was once a heavenly spirit in heaven and we were with God. In order for us to mature and gain our Godly qualities and be like him, we had to leave the "nest" of heaven. We had to leave to gain experience to develop our Godly qualities and so that is why we came to earth with physical bodies. The trials we face on earth are what help gain our Godly nature when we overcome them.

While we're here, we choose whether to follow God or not. Our memories of when we were in heaven are currently blocked off so we choose God by faith rather than our memory of him. Our physical bodies will die and then later we are resurrected.

Do I understand correctly so far?

Not "mature", we were mature spirits upon leaving.

Think of it more like going to graduate school. Those students are mature students but still progressing beyond graduating past certain levels. LDS believe that all spirits that make it here have passed the first test, the test between choosing God's plan versus the deception of Satan, intellectually. We all believe in this plan. Now we are to show if we would really do what we said we would do, when push comes to shove so-to-speak. This is why we all are going to be resurrected through the grace of God, we all passed the first estate test. This is where some confusion arises about our Christian beliefs. Are beliefs go beyond that step as we believe we have all "matured" past that step. Now we determine what kingdom of glory we obtain. What level of glory is determined by combining faith with works. Those that are easily swayed by physical temptations and their hearts turn to treasures that turn to dust will only achieve a lower level of glory. Whereas those that keep their hearts with single passion to the glory of God will achieve the highest level. Our true nature is revealed by our choices in life, do we choose carnal things or spiritual things and to what degree. Our true nature is not what we claim to be alone, intellectual acceptance, but also the willingness to do what we are asked to do. That is why believing with faith, repentance and baptism is just the gait. The admonition of Paul summarizes the path beyond the gait.

I think there is a misunderstanding even amongst LDS that our goal here is to somehow overcome the world by ourselves. This is not what we believe. We are not here to learn how to overcome the world by our own ability. We are here to learn, if learning is needed, to trust in the Lords plan which through Him we can learn to overcome the things of the world. It is the mastery of desire and will (desires of the heart) that we are after, not the actual overcoming of the world. Christ will overcome the world.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Seminarysnoozer

[alexamasan]

Yes, the natural man has a tendency to sin, and I think as we develop we not only overcome committing sins, I think there is a point where it isn't even tempting anymore.

Sometimes it takes something horrible - like watching someone you love die in a drunk driving accident, that forever after turns your stomach inside out so you are not only not tempted, but are sickened and repelled by evil - that you come to passionately hate it. That's the hard way to learn though. The better way is to learn the joys of where God wants to take us first hand. Who wants to play in the filthy mud when they realize they could be relaxing on a beautiful pristine beach? Experience in either direction - either coming to know why evil is evil, or coming to know why good is good - either way should move us along the road.

I've posted this before, but it is something that I love, so I will post it again - and that is about the New Testament Greek word "metanoeō". Jesus spent the majority of his ministry preaching about metanoeō, but I think there are some details that are lost in the translation process.

Meta = change (like metastable is a state of flux between two different states of being)

noeō = conscience / mind / how you perceive what reality is.

Here are some of the scriptures that use the word metanoeō (scroll down)

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

it has been translated as "repent", but I like to read it as "change how you perceive reality", which is in essence changing from a natural man into someone who is refined.

Thanks,

So just to make sure I do not misunderstand, how do you define what sin is? Do you define it as the transgression of God's Law?

[Vort]

Thanks,

So just to make sure I do not misunderstand, how do you define what sin is? Do you define it as the transgression of God's Law?

This New Testament definition is clearly incomplete. Where there is no law given, there is no possibility to sin. Accountability for sin is only for those who have been given a law before transgressing it.

Perhaps you will say that it is not possible to transgress God's law until you have been given that law. In that case, as the New Testament teaches, sin is indeed transgression of the law. But we need to make sure we understand terminology before rendering judgment based on glib phraseology.

[bytebear]

I always think if the Natural Man as the lazy man. He does what's easy over what's right. We are here to grow and to become more Christlike, but that takes effort, so we have to put off the Natural Man, or our natural tendency, and learn to do what is right. As we progress, the Gospel gives us the opportunity for greater blessings and learning through covenants (baptism and confirmation gives us the gift of the Holy Ghost for example), but we also promise to live an even higher law in exchange for greater knowledge and progress. So, a sin to one person may not be that for another because they have not made such a covenant. An example is the Word of Wisdom. Mormons don't drink alcohol, coffee or smoke, but don't consider it a sin for others (beyond the cultural pressures).

[Traveler]

Hello everyone,

I just want to make sure with you guys I am not misinterpreting what I am learning, so I'm going to rewrite what I think the parts gospel principle means and I hope you can give feedback on whether I have it right or not.

So everyone who was ever born on the earth was once a heavenly spirit in heaven and we were with God. In order for us to mature and gain our Godly qualities and be like him, we had to leave the "nest" of heaven. We had to leave to gain experience to develop our Godly qualities and so that is why we came to earth with physical bodies. The trials we face on earth are what help gain our Godly nature when we overcome them.

While we're here, we choose whether to follow God or not. Our memories of when we were in heaven are currently blocked off so we choose God by faith rather than our memory of him. Our physical bodies will die and then later we are resurrected.

Do I understand correctly so far?

You are sort of close:

1. We are the spirit children of G-d the Father - he is our Father in Heaven.

2. Our physical bodies were created in the image and likeness of our Father in heaven. Jesus took this one step farther when he said that seeing him we would understand what the Father looked like.

3. We are born according to the plan of G-d in order that we may have a physical body (note again that it is like or modeled after or in image and likeness of the Father)

4. To learn or achieve the knowledge of good and evil. To be precise - good is the great sacrifice of G-d (Jesus Christ) to redeem our fallen souls. And evil is the cause of sorrow and suffering we experience both directly from our sins and indirectly from the sin of others.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Thank you annewandering.

So now this brings up questions for me.

Just to make sure I'm not assuming, can any of you help me understand what it means to have our divine qualities developed once we are resurrected? How is someone who has followed God's plan, went through the trials, and developed his Divine nature, different from someone who has not yet developed his Divine nature.

We follow G-d's coaching, teachings, directions and suggestions in order to be one with him.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Thank you

Does the natural man have a tendency to sin? As we develop our divine qualities, we gradually overcome our sins? Is that an appropriate way to look at the situation?

As we learn "line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept" we follow his path - which is the only way to be one with G-d.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Thanks,

So just to make sure I do not misunderstand, how do you define what sin is? Do you define it as the transgression of God's Law?

A sin is that which prevents us from following the path or way to become one with G-d.

The Traveler

[alexamasan]

Thanks everybody, I think I understand where you are coming from now. So just to make sure I understand, let me rephrase what you're saying as how I understand it and confirm if I got it right.

Someone only sins if they knew the law 100%. If they do not have an understanding of the law, they cannot sin. Little Children cannot sin because they do not have an understanding of the law.

[Vort]

Thanks everybody, I think I understand where you are coming from now. So just to make sure I understand, let me rephrase what you're saying as how I understand it and confirm if I got it right.

Someone only sins if they knew the law 100%. If they do not have an understanding of the law, they cannot sin. Little Children cannot sin because they do not have an understanding of the law.

I don't know what it means to know the law 100%. People might have a vague awareness that something is wrong, but they do it anyway because they want to. Insofar as they knew it was wrong, they were sinning.

Little children often do know what's right and what's wrong. They are not subject to Satanic temptation, and their ability to make proactive decisions based on their understanding of right and wrong is apparently not mature enough for God to hold them accountable. (My understanding of things, not official Church teaching.)

[Seminarysnoozer]

I don't know what it means to know the law 100%. People might have a vague awareness that something is wrong, but they do it anyway because they want to. Insofar as they knew it was wrong, they were sinning.

Little children often do know what's right and what's wrong. They are not subject to Satanic temptation, and their ability to make proactive decisions based on their understanding of right and wrong is apparently not mature enough for God to hold them accountable. (My understanding of things, not official Church teaching.)

I agree. Just like someone can obey without understanding fully the consequence of their obedience but still does it with a heart of singleness to the one they are obeying a person can sin without fully understanding the consequence of their sin.

This is where, I think, people get mixed up about the purpose of the second estate test. They put it altogether with the first estate test. This life is not necessarily a test of finding out if we intellectually agree with the definition of what is right and wrong. It is more of a test of how strongly we are tied to those beliefs, to what degree would we do the things we are asked to do. Not necessarily if we would do them or not "on paper" but would we do them even when carnal drives are seemingly more powerful than those spiritual convictions.