Before I strangle the onslaught of Scouting volunteers with the same stubborn misunderstanding

[MarginOfError]

Which is exactly why Scouting in the Church is broken.

Not true! That's only one of many reasons Scouting in the Church is broken.

[MarginOfError]

I could be wrong, and Backroads would have to correct me if I am, but why is it the scout leaders' responsibility to fill out these forms? Shouldn't the parents be doing that?

[estradling75]

Personally I would ask an LDS leader... "Do you want to magnify your calling?" If they answer yes then I would tell them that in order to do so they need to master the basics which included all filling out all the proper forms. If they say no then I would tell they need to ask to be released because their lukewarmness about the calling was condemning them and boys (all potential future priesthood holders) deserved better examples of how to serve in the church.

Of course I can be a very not nice person from time to time, so you might want to ignore me.

[Delanie]

I suppose you're right. I really try to stay on top of everything, but I have been in the position of the frustrated volunteer before.

The thing is, Backroads says these people don't understand there is a different unit the boys are moving to. They simply don't understand why they have to fill out forms when the boy is remaining in what to them is the same Scouting program.

Someone will have to do it.

[rameumptom]

Talk with the bishops and stake presidents. Then when people complain, send them to their bishops, who have the answers.

[Backroads]

Be calm? Whatever....call them a cotton headed ninny muggins and let them stew on that one.

not a cotton headed ninny muggins! What sort of monster do you think I am?

And to think a moderator is posting such phrases!

[Wingnut]

not a cotton headed ninny muggins! What sort of monster do you think I am?

Choose your own insult, then!

[Backroads]

What I have observed is that filling out forms in this situation doesn't really calm anyone down. There's still a volunteer angry that we don't understand how their ward works.

As for sending them to their bishop... a different co-worker once got someone not only released from Scoutmaster but arrested by doing that very thing! This was some years ago.

But I have done that before when it's really bad, and that seems to work. I ought to do it more. Pulling the "this is how your ward set things up--they'll be the ones to talk to" card has worked before. At least it's gotten them out of my office.

[Pahoranite]

I wish more LDS sponsored units would simply quit registering those boys once then turn 16 UNLESS they really are advancing. This is provided for in the the official church handbook and in the 2012 update to the Scouting handbook for Church units in the United States.

I am sure there are some exceptions, but I don't know of any wards who really run a Venturing Crew (and I'm not even talking about co-ed) through BSA. Scouting once a boy becomes a priest or priest age is simply to finish off the Eagle.

It really is ridiculous that the BSA doesn't have an option for a parent to indicate that they are registering their son with an LDS sponsored unit which would authorized automatic advancement to take place.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Pahoranite

[Backroads]

I wish more LDS sponsored units would simply quit registering those boys once then turn 16 UNLESS they really are advancing. This is provided for in the the official church handbook and in the 2012 update to the Scouting handbook for Church units in the United States.

I am sure there are some exceptions, but I don't know of any wards who really run a Venturing Crew (and I'm not even talking about co-ed) through BSA. Scouting once a boy becomes a priest or priest age is simply to finish off the Eagle.

It really is ridiculous that the BSA doesn't have an option for a parent to indicate that they are registering their son with an LDS sponsored unit which would authorized automatic advancement to take place.

We often hear of some mysterious letter from Church headquarters to keep all boys registered through age 21 (assuming there's an available crew) but no one has actually seen it and the LDS Scouting handbook doesn't mention it.

As for an automatic advancement, it would be really nice, but contrary to popular belief the LDS church is only a minority in the grand scheme of everyone registered in the BSA. I guess I just don't imagine their programmers going out of their way to design a system that only a small number of people will use.

'Sides, even that might have conflicts. Technically, even in LDS scouting, a boy is suppose to stay in the troop until he has his Eagle--whether you are also registering him in a crew or not.

[Backroads]

I could be wrong, and Backroads would have to correct me if I am, but why is it the scout leaders' responsibility to fill out these forms? Shouldn't the parents be doing that?

I've never actually bothered to find out.

Our powers that be have us allowing leaders to fill out forms (after the intial form to get the kid in Cub Scouts) under the interpretation the LDS Church is demanding the boys are registered. I don't understand the legal principles behind it, but in a nutshell we do this with the Church's approval and them taking the responsibility. However, head power that be came from a council that was actually disbanded due to fraudulent numbers--including staff filling out applications without the authority (he apparently was one of the few that were honest). Which is why he frowns upon it.

That aside, I just don't think it's my responsibility to do so. If a Scout leader were prepared, he would have the application ready.

To give the latest report on my initial complaint, I just had someone walk in screaming and ranting about moving boys from troop to team and why it needs applications. I did get him to understand the rationale behind his. His response was that "No one in our ward wants to take the time to do that"--followed by an anticipating wait, probabably for me to say something like "oh, why didn't you say so in the first place?" I was dumbstruck and upon regaining my power of speech said "Well, I guess they can't get moved at this time".

He slunk away muttering something about seeing about it getting done.

I think it was all in all a polite enough exchange.

[Wingnut]

If a Scout leader were prepared, he would have the application ready.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thanks. :)

[Pahoranite]

For years (yes years) I've been told by the Church's official scout relations liaison that "they are working on reprogramming with the BSA." Unfortunately, we volunteers are still waiting and waiting.

Church Handbook 2, Section 8.13.4 "Where Scouting is authorized by the Church, young men ages 12 to 15 should be registered. Young men ages 16 and 17 should be registered if they are pursuing rank advancements or if the stake president or bishop chooses to sponsor Scouting programs for young men of this age."

http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/scouting-handbook-2012.pdf?lang=eng

[Backroads]

For years (yes years) I've been told by the Church's official scout relations liaison that "they are working on reprogramming with the BSA." Unfortunately, we volunteers are still waiting and waiting.

Church Handbook 2, Section 8.13.4 "Where Scouting is authorized by the Church, young men ages 12 to 15 should be registered. Young men ages 16 and 17 should be registered if they are pursuing rank advancements or if the stake president or bishop chooses to sponsor Scouting programs for young men of this age."

http://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/scouting-handbook-2012.pdf?lang=eng

Yeah, and that's what I'm familiar with my job. Contributing more to the weirdness of the till 21 letter legend.

From what I've been told by the BSA, there are no intentions to completely replace the programming. There is stuff happening in the future (as we've been told) to the programming, but nothing extreme.

What I don't fully understand about LDS Scouting is the whole age thing. Does the Church really expect a boy to have his Eagle by the time he is 15?

[john doe]

What I don't fully understand about LDS Scouting is the whole age thing. Does the Church really expect a boy to have his Eagle by the time he is 15?

Sadly, yes they do.

[Dravin]

I suppose you're right. I really try to stay on top of everything, but I have been in the position of the frustrated volunteer before.

The thing is, Backroads says these people don't understand there is a different unit the boys are moving to. They simply don't understand why they have to fill out forms when the boy is remaining in what to them is the same Scouting program.

Someone will have to do it.

Understand how the Boy Scouts of America works? Yes, that is something they'll have to do. If only there was someone who could explain how the system works... oh wait, they're busy yelling at someone who can explain it to them.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Dravin

[Backroads]

Sadly, yes they do.

Now I'm thinking of my baby brothers who had a 5-boy court of honor of just-about-18 year-olds getting their Eagles, Denalis, and a couple of Venturing awards all at once. At least they made it!