G-d and Physics

[annewandering]

Physics helps us in this life. it is well worthwhile learning as much as you can if your talents go in that direction.

That said my personal opinion on physics, astrophysics and astronomy is that they are mythical. Sure there are grains of truth, sometimes even a lot of truth but on the whole it is not very scientific. If it were scientific then why did the facts about, hmm was it Neptune, turn out to be 50% wrong when a probe was sent there?

I like the links I posted from Miles Pelton. Now I dont know that he is right on anything or even close but at least he is thinking. And he admits he has a lot of work 'refining' his theories. I really like that.

All to often scientists think that they are right, no matter what, and if you question them, they automatically scoff at your question and call it religious fantasies whether its religious or not. lol. ya I have run into a few. Quite a few. I love a good discussion but not if its really a lecture to 'correct' me.

[Traveler]

...

All to often scientists think that they are right, no matter what, and if you question them, they automatically scoff at your question and call it religious fantasies whether its religious or not. lol. ya I have run into a few. Quite a few. I love a good discussion but not if its really a lecture to 'correct' me.

Hmmmmm. Your experiences seem to be weighted quite different than mine. It seems to me that religionists are far more likely to think they are right - no matter what, than are scientist; who by nature are required to test theories and find ways to "try" them out and prove what is true.

It also seems to me that religionists are offended in any effort to demonstrate what is or is not measurable and testable. Or as the ancient apostle said - Prove all things and hold fast that that which is true.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

Hmmmmm. Your experiences seem to be weighted quite different than mine. It seems to me that religionists are far more likely to think they are right - no matter what, than are scientist; who by nature are required to test theories and find ways to "try" them out and prove what is true.

It also seems to me that religionists are offended in any effort to demonstrate what is or is not measurable and testable. Or as the ancient apostle said - Prove all things and hold fast that that which is true.

The Traveler

Is the verse in Proverbs and quoted by President Benson and other modern prophets, "As he thinketh in his heart, so is he" measurable or testable?

[szorgalmasan]

Is the verse in Proverbs and quoted by President Benson and other modern prophets, "As he thinketh in his heart, so is he" measurable or testable?

We don't think with our hearts though, we think with our brains, and we do have the ability to scan the brain and decipher which parts of the brain are being used at any given moment. Perhaps one day we really will be able to measure and test whether or not "as a man thinketh in his brain, so is he."

[Seminarysnoozer]

We don't think with our hearts though, we think with our brains, and we do have the ability to scan the brain and decipher which parts of the brain are being used at any given moment. Perhaps one day we really will be able to measure and test whether or not "as a man thinketh in his brain, so is he."

We also reason with our spirit body which is different than the carnal body in this life. Heart is a metaphor for the desire of the heart, or our spiritual drive. Who we really are is the spirit self and this is what God is measuring, not the outside "measurable" self. As we are dual beings both spirit and body, the quote is referring to the revelation of the nature of the spirit via the metaphoric "heart". Those being two separate natures are often at odds with each other while in this mortal life. This is probably a topic for another thread, in fact I have started a few of those that can be found on this forum.

The point, though, was that spiritual things are always going to be hard to measure carnally. It is not a refusal to attempt to do it but the realization that that is not really how those things are measured in the first place. And your point is exactly right in that we cannot measure that, only God can.

(We actually cannot "scan" the brain and decipher which parts are being used at any given moment, I work in the field of neuroscience and we are far from that. At best we can image gross anatomy, which is more like taking an aerial photo of a city but wanting to know what if any activity is happening in the buildings. A building with the power cut off would still show up on the image. And an EEG measures the summation of the thousands of neurons below a 6 cm squared area of brain tissue, so this is of extremely limited help in knowing which neuron is stimulating which other one at any given time. Spect and PET scans measure momentary use of energy and relative quantities of certain chemicals in a voxel which also includes thousands of neurons and does not specify which neuron is talking to which and to what degree. In addition, most of what the brain does is inhibitory and not excitatory which is difficult to measure. Which is to say the thing that should be "scanned" are the parts that are not being used as opposed to your idea of the parts being used.)

[Sunnysprite]

The usual problem with God/Physics is that men try to define things not spoken of. I am quite sure that in the book of Ezekiel, there was a highly advanced vehicle used. None of us know why. I think that most of our issue with Heavenly Father vs science is that we do not need to know, he's letting us find out for ourselves, and trying to explain a black hole to us is like the father of a household trying to explain the vacume cleaner to a 2 year old.

If you read Dawkins, "The God Delusion", it falls apart prety readily. He is correct that most war is driven by religious ideas, but his book really falls apart in the 5th Chapter. The poor man was raised in Kenya in WWII and his father was military and extremely overbearing, but very religious.

[Vort]

If you read Dawkins, "The God Delusion", it falls apart prety readily. He is correct that most war is driven by religious ideas

I could not disagree more. Most war is driven by a lust for power, the very passion that religion seeks to bridle.

[Sunnysprite]

I could not disagree more. Most war is driven by a lust for power, the very passion that religion seeks to bridle.

Let me think about that. Educate me, please?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Let me think about that. Educate me, please?

What religious ideas drove Hitler (of course ignoring any false statements he may have used to get people to follow him for lies)?

[Sunnysprite]

What religious ideas drove Hitler (of course ignoring any false statements he may have used to get people to follow him for lies)?

Neither the Lutherans or the Catholic took much of a stand in Germany. Perhaps my statement that religions cause war was inaccurate.

I was standing outside the church the other day and a man said that we should just go kill all them (name unspecified). I confronted him, but he ignored me. I don't go to church to hear that kind of talk. I got some wise council from a Sister.

[pntkl]

Do you believe G-d defined the Laws of Physics? | Do you believe G-d used the Laws of Physics to create the universe? | Do you believe G-d used principles other than the laws of Physics (specifically supernatural or contrary to the laws of physics principles that he keeps hidden or secret from mankind) in creating the universe? | Do you believe that life in the universe is abundant or scarce? | Do you believe that life throughout the universe to be competitive, predatory, and parasitic?

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The Father defines absolute truth; for all eternities: that for which exists before the moment of what is, the paradoxical other, from absolute elsewhere--the Great I AM. Therewith Creation is begotten of Him. Thereby He lives at a higher energy condition. It is no agreement or practice of tradition that these were, are, or will become made manifest to us. He alone creates and comprehends the states of that for which has always extended from within. These inceptions lack exception, albeit having exceptional traits. Therefor the demarcation of any Law (inferring that which is ultimate) is set apart before all Creation.

The ideas mankind employs and validates as correct or incorrect are broadly and cyclically weighted by great variance in quality and quantity having a state of flux with bias in the context of many traditions chosen or disregarded. In contrast, paradoxically, all of Creation is sealed, encompassed, constrained, and bound in redux: above, below, beyond, and within spaces; occupied for preservation. Inasmuch, the principles we understand are the ultimate working contradiction: at the end of the night, where one will see death, new life streams without strife, in His sight our lives still thrive in old light.

The angels themselves are not cognizant of all of G-d's mysteries. Before all Creation, He was. Matter itself is of God, by His will it is. Nothing exists for Him as relative, for only after Him does anything experience dissolution. That is to say He does and can both create and destroy energy, or the potential to do work. For His will, only a single angel shares the power to destroy it, constrained by the purpose for which that was gifted.

Before God, there was nothing, literally. With Him, there is no true paradox, for in His "progression", He is the only true singularity. In isolation, for eternities upon eternities, the Father created what can be considered the first order of Creation, the angels. (Their appearance is foreign to man. Although can also make themselves known to them, so as to be seen with pleasing and familiar brilliance.) People will argue over the first of these, even lacking the slightest reference thereof--such debates are for naught. Like His perfection, so they were, yet given variant limitation and excellence. In other words, while knowing most things, He chose to withhold absolute knowledge.

With God, in the heaven of the heavens, His angels walked; for eternities upon eternities. There was nothing man did make or will make that the angels had not already experienced long before. In the progression of their walk, the question of life outside their ranks arose. Among the many in discussion, a quartet was chosen to present this question before the Father. Rather than answering directly, He charged the findings upon their own discovery, to seek out for themselves that for which they sought. Their search took them many eternities; to the expanses in all spaces; in no part of the unimaginable length of their journey did they meet others. Upon their return, He answered directly, "For as you now know by experience, it is as you find, no other Creation aside from your own sits before me." It was after this time that He allowed angels themselves to progenitive, that is to say fill the spaces.

The results thereof were not reproductive, neither has there been life intended for the sole purpose of what man considers harmful or without purpose. As it were, He knew this Creation, its greatness, and the life that followed was to be the penultimate; in their comfort, only knew perfection. Therefore, absent the Holy Ghost, none had known pleasure from pain: to forget a walk with perfection; to know from experience that which is good from that which is wicked to that which is evil; to concede to hate, fear, and lies when asked to trade one hand for the other; to find need of furthering faith by exercising it; to know confidence in G-d by the threat of being slain for calling on His name; to feel remorse when falling short; to grasp the elation of knowing just how strong the Father's love is when He calls out from the grave; to be in His arms once more.

The Father was not yet full in His heart, for although angels were immortal and without blemish, they were this way from their beginning. Desiring to fulfill this void, He began to call the angels before Him, in what people sometimes call the Great or Grand Council in Heaven. With their consent, they would form man, to be given the charges of calling the mortal from the mud, serving this new Creation, and experiencing the mortal. Although doctrine speaks of this in some detail, there is disparity between the way it is understood and actually is, which is only to say there will be a day where that which is hidden will again see--free of what must be kept away.

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Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment. And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land. And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken. The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly. The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful. For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the Lord, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail. The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.''

Rise up, ye women that are at ease; hear my voice, ye careless daughters; give ear unto my speech. Many days and years shall ye be troubled, ye careless women: for the vintage shall fail, the gathering shall not come. Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins. They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine. Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city: Because the palaces shall be forsaken; the multitude of the city shall be left; the forts and towers shall be for dens for ever, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks; Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest. Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field. And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places; When it shall hail, coming down on the forest; and the city shall be low in a low place. Blessed are ye that sow beside all waters, that send forth thither the feet of the ox and the ***.