Backroads Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I said: Example: Offering a sincere apology for offending someone, even if you're right, isn't cowardice. Even if it was unintentional offending someone requires an apology. It takes more courage to apologize and do it right when you're in the right than when you're in the wrong.Sincere apologies are about opening doors.But for what are we apologizing? Are we apologizing for doing a right or even righteous action that had the consequence of offending someone? Or are we simply expressing sympathy for their sorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) But for what are we apologizing? Are we apologizing for doing a right or even righteous action that had the consequence of offending someone? Or are we simply expressing sympathy for their sorrow?We apologizing for unintentionally offending them. A sincere apology is about humility.EDIT: Here's another story: Putting My Marriage before My Pride - Liahona Jan. 2008 - liahona Edited October 9, 2012 by applepansy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 But for what are we apologizing? Are we apologizing for doing a right or even righteous action that had the consequence of offending someone? Or are we simply expressing sympathy for their sorrow?The point I am making is that YES the Lord and Jesus would apologise. How Vort worded it came across as NO the Lord and Jesus would never apologise in any shape, form or circumstance. I disagree. I believe it is not beneath them to say, "I'm sorry you're hurting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) We apologizing for unintentionally offending them. A sincere apology is about humility.How do we give this sincere apology? I doubt most people will accept such an apology when we are still telling them they are wrong? In my experience, a sincere apology that does not remit my true statements just tends to make things worse. And I consider myself to be an incredibly sweet person--in my office I usually get to handle a lot of "ambassador" work. Edited October 9, 2012 by Backroads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Example: Offering a sincere apology for offending someone, even if you're right, isn't cowardice. Even if it was unintentional offending someone requires an apology. It takes more courage to apologize and do it right when you're in the right than when you're in the wrong.So, if someone takes offense at what you say, that's YOUR fault?I suppose God Almighty is going to be owing a lot of people a lot of apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I suggest a scripture challenge: Find evidence of Christ apologizing to someone. I would like to see the situation and manner in which it was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 The point I am making is that YES the Lord and Jesus would apologise. How Vort worded it came across as NO the Lord and Jesus would never apologise in any shape, form or circumstance. I disagree. I believe it is not beneath them to say, "I'm sorry you're hurting."But Bini, the point is that "I'm sorry you're hurting" is not an apology. It is an expression of sympathy and empathy. Apologizing means acknowledging a wrong and expressing regret for it. Where there is no wrong done, there can be no sincere apology offered. This is true by definition.Offering an apology where you have truly done no wrong is dishonest. It is also weak and cowardly, when done as a way to avoid someone else's displeasure. I can say, "I'm sorry you're hurting", but to say "I'm sorry I taught the truths of God, because they made you uncomfortable" is dishonorable. And to say "I'm sorry I offended you (by saying something that had nothing at all to do with you and that you took offense at where no reasonable offense could be inferred)" is not courageous, but the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 So, if someone takes offense at what you say, that's YOUR fault?I suppose God Almighty is going to be owing a lot of people a lot of apologies.Read the two Ensign articles I posted.No its not my fault, but is my pride more important than the relationship? Is my pride more important than being Christ-like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Read the two Ensign articles I posted.No its not my fault, but is my pride more important than the relationship? Is my pride more important than being Christ-like?But is the relationship more important than truth? If I'm understanding you, you're saying that we maintain a relationship first and foremost. But saying "I'm sorry for speaking my mind and I take back all that I said" does not necessarily maintain the relationship. Especially if I am denying all I hold to be true in order to make another person feel good? (yes, I'm taking that to an extreme, but in a simpler form, why should I accept a lie just to make another person feel good?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlJibbs Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Although I agree that I have in the past at times given-in so to speak. I cannot say that by me doing that I have felt the pleasure of not sharing my true feelings, and yes, feel like a fake. It has been mentioned above, but saying you are sorry for something is not necessarily the same as apologizing. My thoughts are in line with those that feel apologizing for something is not being true to yourself. I know this is not in direct correlation, but I think I can tie it together. What of those in the Book of Mormon that were told to say they didnt beleive in their God? And when they didnt, they were burned. Would they lie about it only to save themselves? In a sense would we be apologizing so that we wouldnt be burned, but inside we know we are just saying it to avoid the confrontation? Extreme example, but it makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 But is the relationship more important than truth? If I'm understanding you, you're saying that we maintain a relationship first and foremost. But saying "I'm sorry for speaking my mind and I take back all that I said" does not necessarily maintain the relationship. Especially if I am denying all I hold to be true in order to make another person feel good? (yes, I'm taking that to an extreme, but in a simpler form, why should I accept a lie just to make another person feel good?)Yes, the relationship is important. Yes the truth is important. There is always a way to deliver truth in a non-offensive way. I admire people who can do this. I fail miserably.No, that's not what I'm saying.Let me try again.I'm opinionated and outspoken i.e., a loud-mouth bossy person. Some people get me and there is no offense. Some don't and there is offense. Is what I spoke any truer because someone wasn't offended or someone was offended? My delivery is at fault. Another example: I made spaghetti squash with spaghetti sauce for dinner last night. I mixed the two together before serving. Lately even with pasta I've mixed the spaghetti and sauce together in an effort to stretch the sauce a little further. Last night hubby said he would prefer to have them separate. He sounded angry. When I questioned what was wrong, he said "Don't mix them together anymore. I don't like it" ok... words were great. Tone of voice and body language were hurtful. Whose right? If I choose to be offended does he owe me an apology even though he things he's right in his request. Should I be repenting for being offended and expecting an apology? The answer to both questions is YES!Its never wrong to apologize regardless whether we think we're right. We're imperfect people. We apologize for our imperfections even if we were speaking the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Read the two Ensign articles I posted.No its not my fault, but is my pride more important than the relationship? Is my pride more important than being Christ-like?"As I was praying, I felt a strong impression that I should go to my husband and apologize...I went to my husband and apologized for upsetting him."Seems appropriate. If she really was not at fault originally but she acted in a manner that upset her husband, it might be perfectly appropriate to apologize for that. It may be the smaller of the things that happened, but in this case it was her pride that was keeping her from apologizing for a legitimate (if small) wrong, while she expected an apology for a larger wrong."God will help us to be more forgiving, to be more willing to walk the second mile, to be first to apologize even if something wasn’t our fault, to lay aside old grudges and nurture them no more."As I interpret Elder Uchtdorf's words, this is an acknowledgement that disagreements are almost never purely the fault of one person or the other. As in the first example, being willing to apologize for your part in the disagreement, even if it was a minor part, requires humility. That is much different from apologizing where there is no wrong.I like Backroads' challenge. I would love for someone to point out a passage where the Lord apologized to somebody for his non-existent wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Is it a weakness to apologise to someone? Does it make you look like you are inferior to that person.Although I agree that I have in the past at times given-in so to speak. I cannot say that by me doing that I have felt the pleasure of not sharing my true feelings, and yes, feel like a fake. It has been mentioned above, but saying you are sorry for something is not necessarily the same as apologizing. My thoughts are in line with those that feel apologizing for something is not being true to yourself. I know this is not in direct correlation, but I think I can tie it together. What of those in the Book of Mormon that were told to say they didnt beleive in their God? And when they didnt, they were burned. Would they lie about it only to save themselves? In a sense would we be apologizing so that we wouldnt be burned, but inside we know we are just saying it to avoid the confrontation? Extreme example, but it makes sense to me.I thought we were discussing apologizing in interpersonal relationships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 We apologize for our imperfections even if we were speaking the truth.I believe this might be the best definition for the apologies we've been debating. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Its never wrong to apologize regardless whether we think we're right. We're imperfect people. We apologize for our imperfections even if we were speaking the truth.But then that's a non-apology.HUSBAND (walking in the door): Hi, darling. I'm exhausted from work. What a stressful day!WIFE: How DARE you say that?! Don't you know that MY day has been WAAAAY more stressful than yours? What a selfish cad you are! Boo hoo hoo!HUSBAND: Oh, there, there. I'm so sorry for my imperfections.What kind of apology is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 But then that's a non-apology.HUSBAND (walking in the door): Hi, darling. I'm exhausted from work. What a stressful day!WIFE: How DARE you say that?! Don't you know that MY day has been WAAAAY more stressful than yours? What a selfish cad you are! Boo hoo hoo!HUSBAND: Oh, there, there. I'm so sorry for my imperfections.What kind of apology is that?I need the laugh button.I hope that both offer a sincere apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm opinionated and outspoken i.e., a loud-mouth bossy person. Some people get me and there is no offense. Some don't and there is offense. Is what I spoke any truer because someone wasn't offended or someone was offended? My delivery is at fault.That was stated fantastically! BINGO.Back to topic. I still believe that God would apologise for upsetting someone, and that doesn't equate to him backpedaling on his words.. I never implied this, if that is what was understood. It seems the hang-up is on the word "apology" itself. When you feel remorse for the hurt some else is feeling due to your words/actions - regardless that it was unintentional - issuing an I Am Sorry is a form of an apology. I believe God is capable of apologising in this sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlJibbs Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I thought we were discussing apologizing in interpersonal relationships.I suppose that is what you were talking about then? The OP stated Is it a weakness to apologise to someone? Does it make you look like you are inferior to that person. Nowhere were we pointed to "interpersonal" relationships and I am sorry you misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlJibbs Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 That was stated fantastically! BINGO.Back to topic. I still believe that God would apologise for upsetting someone, and that doesn't equate to him backpedaling on his words.. I never implied this, if that is what was understood. It seems the hang-up is on the word "apology" itself. When you feel remorse for the hurt some else is feeling due to your words/actions - regardless that it was unintentional - issuing an I Am Sorry is a form of an apology. I believe God is capable of apologising in this sense.I am not so sure. How many people have been upset at God for this or for that. I have never been apologized to. Maybe we misunderstood God, would he apologize for your misunderstanding? This still sounds like "our" problem and not Gods, so why would he apologize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I suppose that is what you were talking about then? The OP stated . Nowhere were we pointed to "interpersonal" relationships and I am sorry you misunderstood. That's not what I'd call a "sincere" apology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am not so sure. How many people have been upset at God for this or for that. I have never been apologized to. Maybe we misunderstood God, would he apologize for your misunderstanding? This still sounds like "our" problem and not Gods, so why would he apologize?This sounds downright prideful. God will comfort where one hurts. If that is in the form of, "Sorry you misunderstand me, that is not what I intended", that is an apology for lack of using another term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 And.. just because it isn't documented in scripture, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephP Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 That's not what I'd call a "sincere" apology I prefer to word a generally dismissive apology as, "I'm sorry I offended you." Of course my thought is, "I'm sorry I offended you, I wish you had be able to accept my opinion without taking offense", but theres no reason to go into unnecessary detail. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlJibbs Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 This sounds downright prideful. God will comfort where one hurts. If that is in the form of, "Sorry you misunderstand me, that is not what I intended", that is an apology for lack of using another term.Still not an apology, sounds like empathy, not remorse for something done wrong. Do I think that our Heavenly Father can feel sorry for us and our poor choices? Yes, but would he apologize for our mistakes. I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Y'know, I've been thinking about it... I do not believe God nor Christ would ever apologize. The most we can do is imagine how they might apologize, or teach us to apologize. It goes without saying they are perfect beings that would never do anything requiring an apology. But while they are filled with love toward us, the imperfect, they are about instruction, not making us feel good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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