Lds A Universalist Religion?

[vipergts24]

Hey all, I'm new to the boards (just joined today) and was here hoping to find some answers that I have pondered for quite sometime but have been unable to ask the right people. I'm a 21 year old college student from California and my family were converts to the LDS religion when I was young and I unfortunately feel that I don't have the experience and knowledge that some of you have over me and I feel uncomfortable asking those at church for fear of disrespecting the religion. The other reason I'm here is to hopefully strengthen my faith and get more active with the church and other people online who are interested in the same thing!

A question i've been thinking about lately was whether the LDS religion is considered a universalistic religion. Basically universalism is the belief that everyone will go to heaven if the accept God in the end. (You can try to google it for a better summation). I have heard mixed opinions on the subject but I would like to hear what other people with much more experience have to say :)

[rosie321]

[

quote name='vipergts24' date='Dec 30 2006, 02:27 AM' post='118585]

Hey all, I'm new to the boards (just joined today) and was here hoping to find some answers that I have pondered for quite sometime but have been unable to ask the right people. I'm a 21 year old college student from California and my family were converts to the LDS religion when I was young and I unfortunately feel that I don't have the experience and knowledge that some of you have over me and I feel uncomfortable asking those at church for fear of disrespecting the religion. The other reason I'm here is to hopefully strengthen my faith and get more active with the church and other people online who are interested in the same thing!

Glad to see you here. This is a nice safe place to ask your questions. Keep asking and you will find the answers.

I've certainly asked my share. Some may have seemed crazy to people but I asked them anyway. I'm glad I did and still do.

With all the wonderful diverse views on this site it really does help to clarify and direct a person to the answers. You've come to a good place.

May you find the strengthened faith you seek.

A question i've been thinking about lately was whether the LDS religion is considered a universalistic religion. Basically universalism is the belief that everyone will go to heaven if the accept God in the end. (You can try to google it for a better summation). I have heard mixed opinions on the subject but I would like to hear what other people with much more experience have to say :)

That's a loaded question, especially having personally looked at LDS from outside the faith eyes. Personal opinion-read and learn all you can about the basic LDS principle beliefs from the source or those who can at least respect it. Try and understand the basics and then you will be able to better recieve and understand the answers given from an LDS perspective. A couple line sentence may not give you a complete understanding of what you are asking. If you don't understand the basic concepts you may miss out on the complete answers you are seeking.

Good luck

[roman]

This is a very basic thought through out much of lds teaching----------------All go to some level in Heavan except the sons of perdition. So a person--according to lds teachings rejects Jesus but is a good person goes to heaven. this is contary to the Biblical teaching of ---only those who have the Spirit of Christ will inherit their place in Heaven

lds also teach of a second chance in the next life to accept the lds gospel and this again is unbiblical as it states in the Bible----we die and then there is judgement

I'm not lds but have a very good understanding of lds doctrine.

BTW any question that is asked in your church setting should not offend anyone------------so go ahead and ask

[Outshined]

Whether you could call the LDS Church universalist is certainly debatable, though your definition would fit. You can read up at

http://www.lds.org and http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons to get more information and gain a better understadning as well.

I'm not lds but have a very good understanding of lds doctrine.

Man, that was a good one!

[roman]

I'm not lds but have a very good understanding of lds doctrine.

Man, that was a good one!

Why thank you I knew you would some day see the light

BTW I noticed that you didn't say i was wrong on anything I said

[Outshined]

Why thank you I knew you would some day see the light

I know a good joke when I see one; you don't make many funnies, but when you do...

(And I saw the light several years back; that's why I joined the LDS Church! )

[vipergts24]

Another question I was wondering was for those who rebelled against god in precreation, will they have a second chance to redeem themselves and accept god like people here on Earth?

[Outshined]

Another question I was wondering was for those who rebelled against god in precreation, will they have a second chance to redeem themselves and accept god like people here on Earth?

No; they are the sons of perdition; they had their chance and cast it away. http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/p.../devils_eom.htm

[prisonchaplain]

Whether you could call the LDS Church universalist is certainly debatable, though your definition would fit. You can read up at

http://www.lds.org and http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons to get more information and gain a better understadning as well.

IMHO (another "non" pretending to know a bit--probably enough to play one on TV, but not enough to teach a Gospel Principles class ), the short answer is: NO.

However few, there are those who go to hell. Also, Universalists almost exclusively emphasize the love of God. "How dare you think you can out-sin the love of God???" The COJCLDS, despite its teaching that hell is much smaller than most Christians imagine, has strong teachings on living right, living according to God's will, "Doing all that you can." So, the approach is different as well.

Speak to a U/U (Unitarian/Universalist) and you'll know right away, that while LDS doctrine about the ultimate end of most of humanity is quite optimistic, it's not Universalism.

[Outshined]

Thanks for clarifying that, PC. You're right; there is a difference. B)

[roman]

Okay i will concede the point to PC but only by a hairs breath. But still the fact is that lds reside in both sides of this issue

[Outshined]

Not at all; as PC illustrated, LDS and Universalist theology are not compatible. LDS do not reside "on both sides" at all, regardless of your opinion on the matter. The fact is that some go to Hell in LDS theology, which disqualifies it from being considered Universalist.

However few, there are those who go to hell. Also, Universalists almost exclusively emphasize the love of God. "How dare you think you can out-sin the love of God???" The COJCLDS, despite its teaching that hell is much smaller than most Christians imagine, has strong teachings on living right, living according to God's will, "Doing all that you can." So, the approach is different as well.

Speak to a U/U (Unitarian/Universalist) and you'll know right away, that while LDS doctrine about the ultimate end of most of humanity is quite optimistic, it's not Universalism.

[roman]

Then why did you say it was certainly debatable?

And yet some lds are universialist----at least from my experiences

[prisonchaplain]

Culturally, the COJCLDS is nowhere close to the U/U--however, in terms of the #s of folk who will spend eternity in hell, Roman's 'hair-breadth' measuring might not be so far off. :-)

[Outshined]

Then why did you say it was certainly debatable?

Because with vipergts24's definition, most of Christianity is Universalist. "Everyone who accepts God will go to Heaven".

However, when you look at actual Universalist theology on their websites, they claim no one will go to Hell, as God loves us too much. This is not even close to LDS belief.

And yet some lds are universialist----at least from my experiences.

I don't see how; we believe some will go to Hell. They don't.

[roman]

<div class='quotemain'>

Then why did you say it was certainly debatable?

Because with vipergts24's definition, most of Christianity is Universalist. "Everyone who accepts God will go to Heaven".

However, when you look at actual Universalist theology on their websites, they claim no one will go to Hell, as God loves us too much. This is not even close to LDS belief.

And yet some lds are universialist----at least from my experiences.

I don't see how; we believe some will go to Hell. They don't.

I have family that are lds and they believe that only the sons of perdidtion will go to Hell and that those are who rebelled in the first rebellion in Heavan. They also believe that all will sooner

or later accept the lds salvation wether in this life or in spirit prison. That is pretty universalist to alot of us

[Outshined]

The Universalists believe than no one will go to Hell; that seems pretty far away from LDS theology. I personally don't believe that everyone will accept the Gospel; they may get a chance, but that doesn't mean they'll take it.

I can still see how that would seem universalist from your perspective, though.

[roman]

The Universalists believe than no one will go to Hell; that seems pretty far away from LDS theology. I personally don't believe that everyone will accept the Gospel; they may get a chance, but that doesn't mean they'll take it.

I can still see how that would seem universalist from your perspective, though.

agreed

[Traveler]

Hey all, I'm new to the boards (just joined today) and was here hoping to find some answers that I have pondered for quite sometime but have been unable to ask the right people. I'm a 21 year old college student from California and my family were converts to the LDS religion when I was young and I unfortunately feel that I don't have the experience and knowledge that some of you have over me and I feel uncomfortable asking those at church for fear of disrespecting the religion. The other reason I'm here is to hopefully strengthen my faith and get more active with the church and other people online who are interested in the same thing!

A question i've been thinking about lately was whether the LDS religion is considered a universalistic religion. Basically universalism is the belief that everyone will go to heaven if the accept God in the end. (You can try to google it for a better summation). I have heard mixed opinions on the subject but I would like to hear what other people with much more experience have to say :)

I will speak for myself - which may or may not be the concept of all LDS or all Christians. I believe that we all must choose. I believe a chose is not in ignorance but is made from knowledge and that knowledge is not faith.

I believe that every person will know of that glorious place where G-d dwells and that many will look upon such a heaven and say “This is not what I want for all eternity – is there not something more suitable for what I desire?” To which G-d will respond, “Yes my child that I love so dearly – I have prepared a place that is an exact match for what you desire. I would that you would desire to live with me as I live but since your heart is not in such things you shall receive according to what your heart desires.” I believe this because I see it happen every day, people do what “they” want to do. Doing what G-d want seem to be a path few take, even among those that say they love doing according to G-d’s will and commandments.

I do not believe that any person, that G-d loves, that looks upon that heavenly kingdom where G-d dwells and with all their heart desires to be there – That G-d will cast them into an eternal hell and be happy about it. I believe that the only souls in hell are the souls that want to be is such a place and believe they should have what they want. Heaven knows we all believe what we want.

The Traveler

[Rosewood]

Quote by Outshined -

No; they are the sons of perdition; they had their chance and cast it away.

Outshined (I can't get the quotes to work)-

I thought sons of perdition were those that entered into secret combinations with satan while they are in mortality, meaning they have a physical body. When vipergts24 said those that didn't make it through the precreation (preexistence) they couldn't have a body. They just didn't keep their first estate. They become satan's angels. Son's of perdition will (according to my understanding) rule over satan because they had more knowledge when they rebelled. I didn't find that in the site you posted.

Welcome Viper, I'm fairly new myself. It's a great place to sharpen you gospel knowledge and communication skills. There are some really great people on here.

[Guest MrsS]

Re: quotes. Have you tried highlighting the area you want quoted, then clicking on the quote icon? It is to the left of the the # icon.

The quote icon doesn't work - must be a glitch in the programming.

edited to do the quote.

Now I will try to use the shortcut icon.

They work in the final product, just not in preview.

edited three times total- that is a record for me.

[Rosewood]

...still can't get it to work! Thanks anyway, I keep trying.

[Outshined]

I thought sons of perdition were those that entered into secret combinations with satan while they are in mortality, meaning they have a physical body. When vipergts24 said those that didn't make it through the precreation (preexistence) they couldn't have a body. They just didn't keep their first estate. They become satan's angels. Son's of perdition will (according to my understanding) rule over satan because they had more knowledge when they rebelled. I didn't find that in the site you posted.

Sorry it took so long to answer; I hadn't checked the thread in a while. Here is a good explanation I found:

Lucifer is Perdition. He became such by open rebellion against the truth, a rebellion in the face of light and knowledge. Although he knew God and had been taught the provisions of the plan of salvation, he defied the Lord and sought to enthrone himself with the Lord's power. (Moses 4:1-4.) He thus committed the unpardonable sin. In rebellion with him were one-third of the spirit hosts of heaven. These all were thus followers (or in other words sons) of perdition. They were denied bodies, were cast out onto the earth, and thus came the devil and his angels -- a great host of sons of perdition.

Those in this life who gain a perfect knowledge of the divinity of the gospel cause, a knowledge that comes only by revelation from the Holy Ghost, and who then link themselves with Lucifer and come out in open rebellion, also become sons of perdition. Their destiny, following their resurrection, is to be cast out with the devil and his angels, to inherit the same kingdom in a state where "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (D. & C. 76:32-49; 29:27-30; Heb. 6:4-8; 2 Pet. 2:20-22; 2 Ne. 9:14-16; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 47-49; vol. 2, pp. 218-225.)

Joseph Smith said: "All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. (Teachings, p. 358.)

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/a...rdition_eom.htm