Marlin1 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 I don't know. It seems that the Holy Spirit has told me not to agree to obey anything besides the greatest commandment: (essentially) Love one another. As soon as this is enough I will be baptized.That's the only commandment that I follow. It is the underlying principle or commandment of the entire law. Love is in essence the only law that exists. To love God, others, and self, is all that exists in the law. All other commandments teach us how to love God, others, and self, and are fulfillment of that primary commandment.Christ said, the second is "like unto" it, which in scriptural language means it is of equal importance or in similitude. He couldn't even answer the question without including the second part to love others, because it is the same commandment in essence. People often forget the third part of this great commandment. It is to love yourself. He said to love others as yourself. That is enough Pete, so when are you going to get baptized?
slamjet Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 Love is in essence the only law that exists.So, where do the ordinances come in? Christ was baptized to show obedience and to fulfill the law. I would argue that because we are mortal and not capable of pure love, obedience to the commandments of God is the bottom line. Love of others, faith, knowledge and other good consequences come as a consequence of obedience.
Marlin1 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 So, where do the ordinances come in? Christ was baptized to show obedience and to fulfill the law. I would argue that because we are mortal and not capable of pure love, obedience to the commandments of God is the bottom line. Love of others, faith, knowledge and other good consequences come as a consequence of obedience.What is obedience if not done in love?
slamjet Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 What is obedience if not done in love?Well, I'm glad you didn't have to learn otherwise.
Marlin1 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 So, where do the ordinances come in?The ordinances are in part to teach us of God's love for us - Think of the symbolism of baptism, the sacrament, etc. They also show God our love for Him through covenant, our willingness to put Him first. It's all based in love and entitles us to abound more fully in His love. "That they may always have his spirit to be with them." We can more fully fulfill the command to love God, others, and self when we have His spirit to be with us always. It all points to love.
peteolcott Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Posted November 9, 2012 That's the only commandment that I follow. It is the underlying principle or commandment of the entire law. Love is in essence the only law that exists. To love God, others, and self, is all that exists in the law. All other commandments teach us how to love God, others, and self, and are fulfillment of that primary commandment.Christ said, the second is "like unto" it, which in scriptural language means it is of equal importance or in similitude. He couldn't even answer the question without including the second part to love others, because it is the same commandment in essence. People often forget the third part of this great commandment. It is to love yourself. He said to love others as yourself. That is enough Pete, so when are you going to get baptized?That is great that you see things the same way that the Holy Spirit is telling me that they are. One thing that I do that is rare among most people, is that I speak literally. Almost everyone uses degrees of figures-of-speech in what they say, I do not. When I say that the only thing that I am allowed to agree to obey is to Love One Another, I mean this literally. I am not allowed to agree to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, or the Word of Wisdom. If this is good enough I will be baptized ASAP.
Dravin Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) That is great that you see things the same way that the Holy Spirit is telling me that they are. One thing that I do that is rare among most people, is that I speak literally. Almost everyone uses degrees of figures-of-speech in what they say, I do not. You do realize that, "see things the same way" when not literally talking about vision is a figure of speech? Additionally, nothing posted on this board is anything people say, it's all written communication, so that's another figure of speech. Presuming literalness then your above statement communicates that you don't use figures of speech in spoken communication but leaves us wondering on the subject of if you write literally. Which considering the medium would be the more useful information. Edited November 9, 2012 by Dravin
skippy740 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 When I say that the only thing that I am allowed to agree to obey is to Love One Another, I mean this literally. I am not allowed to agree to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, or the Word of Wisdom. If this is good enough I will be baptized ASAP.What do you mean by this? Who is controlling you?If something is controlling you, then how can you enter into a covenant to follow Christ through baptism?We are not SLAVES to the Holly Spirit. Ideally, we voluntarily surrender our will to follow the Savior.But we are allowed to enter into that covenant willingly.I'm simply confused by your 'literal meaning'.
peteolcott Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Posted November 9, 2012 What do you mean by this? Who is controlling you?If something is controlling you, then how can you enter into a covenant to follow Christ through baptism?We are not SLAVES to the Holly Spirit. Ideally, we voluntarily surrender our will to follow the Savior.But we are allowed to enter into that covenant willingly.I'm simply confused by your 'literal meaning'.The Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not do this. It is OK that I agree to obey Love One Another. Galatians 5:14 (NRSV) For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’
peteolcott Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Posted November 9, 2012 You do realize that, "see things the same way" when not literally talking about vision is a figure of speech? Additionally, nothing posted on this board is anything people say, it's all written communication, so that's another figure of speech. Presuming literalness then your above statement communicates that you don't use figures of speech in spoken communication but leaves us wondering on the subject of if you write literally. Which considering the medium would be the more useful information.The Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not do this. It is OK that I agree to obey Love One Another. Do you see what I mean by literally now?
skippy740 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 So, let me be sure that I understand you: The Spirit is telling you that it's okay to violate the law of chastity, not pay tithes (you're not a member yet) and that it's okay to violate the word of wisdom... now that you know about these? How can you say that the LDS church is the most righteous on earth... when you choose not to follow the basic commandments of the faith? I'm having cognitive dissonance with everything you're saying and what the LDS church teaches.
Backroads Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 The Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not do this. It is OK that I agree to obey Love One Another. Galatians 5:14 (NRSV) For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’So why claim to be LDS or intending to be LDS?
skippy740 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 peteolcott, What we're basically saying is that if we (LDS) are having trouble reaching ONE (you), why can we be thinking of the entire world? Conversion and conversations are best done one-on-one, one-by-one (well, by two when you consider missionaries).
slamjet Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 The Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not do this. It is OK that I agree to obey Love One Another. Do you see what I mean by literally now?Ok, so you're being told by the spirit of God that it is ok to not live what you termed are His laws and that He is ok with you only agreeing to play nice with others. So, in other words, you are literally living in defiance of God.Somethings a bit off here. I didn't know that the commandments were negotiable.
peteolcott Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Posted November 9, 2012 Ok, so you're being told by the spirit of God that it is ok to not live what you termed are His laws and that He is ok with you only agreeing to play nice with others. So, in other words, you are literally living in defiance of God.Somethings a bit off here. I didn't know that the commandments were negotiable.So we are back again to literal meaning:Galatians 5:14 (NRSV) For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’Absolutely positively 100% of all of the whole law is summed up in the single commandment: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’
skippy740 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 Does that include the law of chastity, law of tithing and the Word of Wisdom? "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." All the commandments are an EXTENSION of the two great commandments, not 'instead of'. The law of chastity is an extension of loving God and your neighbor. The law of tithing is an extension of loving God. The Word of Wisdom is an extension of loving God.
Backroads Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 It does seem odd to tout that particular commandment without having any specifics on what it means. Without definitions, you can pretty much justify anything as "loving thy neighbor" according to your whim.
slamjet Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 So we are back again to literal meaning:Galatians 5:14 (NRSV) For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’Absolutely positively 100% of all of the whole law is summed up in the single commandment: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’It really looks like you're using circular reasoning to justify doing as you wish. If that's what floats your boat, then ok. But good luck in taking one line of one verse of one scripture and wrapping your whole life around it. Just remember, in the end, denial is not an excuse. Because you sure are denying the rest of God's words to your detriment.
skippy740 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 It seems that the Holy Spirit has told me not to agree to obey anything besides the greatest commandment: (essentially) Love one another. As soon as this is enough I will be baptized.In essence, the LDS Church is the Lord's church, and Christ sets the standards, not peteolcott. It's not up to you to determine the minimum standards for entrance into the Lord's church.Your own logic is keeping you from being in the Kingdom. My advice: Don't trust in the arm of (your own) flesh. The Lord's ways are not necessarily of man's ways. Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not unto your own understanding.
skippy740 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 Peteolcott,You're beginning to remind me of 1 Timothy 5:13And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.Your credibility for such threads and topics you've previously started is becoming more suspect due to your views on the commandments and the scriptures.http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/46349-message-all-holy-spirit-through-me.htmlhttp://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/46211-spiritual-thought-all.htmlMy best advice for you is in the D&C 11:2121 Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my Spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men.
Marlin1 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) So we are back again to literal meaning:Galatians 5:14 (NRSV) For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’Absolutely positively 100% of all of the whole law is summed up in the single commandment: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’God's commandments are the means by which we love God and our neighbor as ourselves, or he would not have given them. God's commandments are the means to an end - love. The commandments are "literally" how we love our neighbor as ourselves. If you are not living them, then you are not loving others as Christ literally taught us to. Living the law of chastity is loving others the way God taught us to love them. We have all seen the harmful effects that pornography, infidelity, etc. have on others. Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of true love if you are unwilling to obey the law of chastity. Not living the law of chastity seems more selfish than self-less. The law of tithing allows others to be sealed to their families for time and eternity in Holy Temples. What greater love offering could there be? Again, not paying tithing seems more selfish than self-less.By not fulfilling these basic commandments, you are not loving others as God has taught. I am sure that you do much good for others, but you can offer more good and better love through receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost after baptism. You can offer a better and higher love through being sealed in the temple for time and eternity to your family. Tithing and chastity make all of that better good, and higher love possible. Edited November 10, 2012 by Marlin1
peteolcott Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Posted November 10, 2012 God's commandments are the means by which we love God and our neighbor as ourselves, or he would not have given them. God's commandments are the means to an end - love. The commandments are "literally" how we love our neighbor as ourselves. If you are not living them, then you are not loving others as Christ literally taught us to. Living the law of chastity is loving others the way God taught us to love them. We have all seen the harmful effects that pornography, infidelity, etc. have on others. Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of true love if you are unwilling to obey the law of chastity. Not living the law of chastity seems more selfish than self-less. The law of tithing allows others to be sealed to their families for time and eternity in Holy Temples. What greater love offering could there be? Again, not paying tithing seems more selfish than self-less.By not fulfilling these basic commandments, you are not loving others as God has taught. I am sure that you do much good for others, but you can offer more good and better love through receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost after baptism. You can offer a better and higher love through being sealed in the temple for time and eternity to your family. Tithing and chastity make all of that better good, and higher love possible.None-the-less the Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not ever do this. Between what he says and what anyone else, (even everyone else) says, I will listen to him. That is of course the way that it should be.
pam Posted November 10, 2012 Report Posted November 10, 2012 The Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not do this. It is OK that I agree to obey Love One Another. Do you see what I mean by literally now? Then I would suggest that you quit saying that the LDS church is the most righteous church on the earth. If you can't agree with some of our most basic principles then there is no way you can state that it's the most righteous church on the earth.So going around having sex without marriage or taking drugs which is against the Law of Chastity and the Word of Wisdom is okay? You say you should go ahead and do these things?
peteolcott Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Posted November 10, 2012 In essence, the LDS Church is the Lord's church, and Christ sets the standards, not peteolcott. It's not up to you to determine the minimum standards for entrance into the Lord's church.Your own logic is keeping you from being in the Kingdom. My advice: Don't trust in the arm of (your own) flesh. The Lord's ways are not necessarily of man's ways. Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not unto your own understanding.None-the-less the Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not ever do this. Between what he says and what anyone else, (even everyone else) says, I will listen to him. That is of course the way that it should be.
peteolcott Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Posted November 10, 2012 Then I would suggest that you quit saying that the LDS church is the most righteous church on the earth. If you can't agree with some of our most basic principles then there is no way you can state that it's the most righteous church on the earth.So going around having sex without marriage or taking drugs which is against the Law of Chastity and the Word of Wisdom is okay? You say you should go ahead and do these things?None-the-less the Holy Spirit is telling me that agreeing to obey the Law of Chastity, the Law of Tithing, and the Word of Wisdom is wrong for me and I should not ever do this. Between what he says and what anyone else, (even everyone else) says, I will listen to him. That is of course the way that it should be.
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