Question about baptism

[yourstruly]

I was inactive for many years and recently started going back to church. I am a single mother and the sole provider for myself and my children. I work a full time job and am going to school full time (12 credit hours/semester) all while raising 3 beautiful children with no family that lives in the same state as me. My daughter just turned 8 and since we are going for Thanksgiving to visit my mother and step-father (both active members) they are really pushing for my daughter to be baptized while we are there. My daughter was blessed in the church as a baby so she is a member, but we never went to church until very recently. I also have a young son with severe behavioral problems which makes it difficult (usually impossible) to stay in sacrament meetings and sunday school, although I try to hear as much as possible. I would like for my daughter to be baptized and I would like for my step-father to be the one to baptize her, and since we live so far away from them now is the best time to do it (while we are visiting them.) I am afraid, however, that the Bishop will say she isn't ready to be baptized yet because we haven't been active for long at all. I am gaining testimony of the church, but I feel like my Bishop and other members still do not accept my family. I am working very hard to get my degree so that I can build a better life for my children but because of our hectic life, right now I am not able to attend church activities and functions and I feel like we haven't "proven" our faith because of that. I wish the church was a little more understanding about the fact that we are not all in a situation to be able to make our lives revolve around church functions and activities. I want my daughter to be baptized and, most importantly, she wants to be, but I am afraid of her being turned down. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

[skippy740]

A few questions:

1) Where is the father? I ask because the Bishop will ask... to allow consent for your daughter to be baptised.

2) Why do you think the Church is NOT more understanding about life's issues?

Not everything is as you think it is on the surface when we go to meetings. The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. If you have an issue with your Bishop... then you have an issue with your Bishop... not the Church.

Because of inactivity, it's VERY EASY to think of how judgmental members can be... in our mind. That's the Adversary working on you. The Adversary would have you think that the Church has a "country-club" atmosphere... that everyone else's life is perfect, but yours.

The baptism should be done within your ward boundaries... where she will be a member. You'll want to check on that.

The worst case scenario? The Bishop would recommend that your family take missionary lessons in your home. Of course, there will need to be another Priesthood holder present for missionary rules. You'll have the Spirit in your home, your family will revisit the lessons of the gospel and all make commitments to continue down the gospel path. That's not a bad thing, IMO.

[classylady]

Talk to your bishop. Explain how you feel, just like you expressed here. Let him know that your stepfather would like to baptize your daughter. The bishop will advise you as to what needs to be done in order to accomplish it.

My granddaughter, who lives in WA, is going to be baptized next month here in Utah. Not exactly the same situation as yours, as her family is active. So, I do know that it's possible to be baptized outside of your ward boundaries.

[Anddenex]

I was inactive for many years and recently started going back to church.

Welcome back! This is definitely a decision which will benefit you and your children.

My daughter just turned 8 and since we are going for Thanksgiving to visit my mother and step-father (both active members) they are really pushing for my daughter to be baptized while we are there...I am afraid, however, that the Bishop will say she isn't ready to be baptized yet because we haven't been active for long at all.

This is going to be tough with regard to your daughter being baptized. The Bishop must, as you know consider her worthy, not only worthy, but understanding of the covenant she is about to make.

In the handbook, the Bishop or Bishopric counselor must feel there is clear evidence she knows the covenant and will make every effort to keep it.

Thus, the length of time that you have been active will weigh heavily on most Bishopric interviews. Thus, be prepared, he may say no, she is not ready.

If you have legal custody, than you do not need permission from your spouse, but it would be nice to inform him. If your daughter has formally accepted her stepfather's last name, the child may also be baptized and confirmed in the name by which she will be known, in other words the last name of her stepfather, but on record and the certificate her legal name will be used

I am gaining testimony of the church, but I feel like my Bishop and other members still do not accept my family. I am working very hard to get my degree so that I can build a better life for my children but because of our hectic life, right now I am not able to attend church activities and functions and I feel like we haven't "proven" our faith because of that.

Awesome, keep pressing on.

I wish the church was a little more understanding about the fact that we are not all in a situation to be able to make our lives revolve around church functions and activities. I want my daughter to be baptized and, most importantly, she wants to be, but I am afraid of her being turned down. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

The Church is very understanding of situations like yours. It is not the Church's fault you made a decision to be inactive for so many years. The Lord welcomes us back with open arms, however we must abide by his precepts if we want to find happiness in this life, even if they don't appear very supporting of our situations.

Remember, baptism isn't a right of passage, it is a literal covenant with blessings if we keep, and warnings if we don't. Children must understand this.

The Bishop and Bishopric definitely want to see your daughter baptized also. They are under strict covenant before God to make sure those who are baptized are worthy and understand the covenant, especially children.

I hope the best for you and safe travels.

EDIT: Side note, as pertaining to baptism outside of your Stake, this is possible if your current Bishop esteems your daughter worthy. Then the Bishop of the ward they will potentially be baptized must contact your Bishop and verify approval. A person is not allowed to be baptized in another ward without the Bishops of both wards being in contact. There are many good reasons for this.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Anddenex

[georgia2]

If I were you I would have the missionaries teach the whole family. I realize it's hard to find time, but it's the best way to teach your children, have the Spirit in your home, and have understanding members to talk to. It's hard to beat the feeling in our home when the missionaries are there.

I also understand your families desire to be present and have her baptized, but don't rush it. Your daughter needs to understand and gain a true desire to be baptized. If you begin the discussions she will be ready by Christmas. If you can't go to your family, maybe they would be willing to come to your ward. I wouldn't give up the opportunity to have your step-father do the baptizing too easily. your daughter is just now turning eight and has time to understand and enjoy this process without pressure.

[georgia2]

I meant to say she MAY be ready by Christmas.

[yourstruly]

Thank you everyone for your comments. To answer a few questions...my daughter's father is not in contact with her and I have sole custody. My mother has already talked to her Bishop and was granted permission for the Baptism to take place there by the Stake President. My nephew will also be getting baptized at the same time so they wanted to make it a family affair and have my daughter and nephew baptized the same day. Basically, everything is in order...I just need my Bishop to approve it. To be quite honest, I am not comfortable talking to my Bishop. Not because of any mistakes I have made or because I fell unworthy...not for any personal reason...just the fact that he is not very approachable. He seems very cold when I have tried to talk to him in the past so now I have a difficult time approaching him with these matters. I understand about making sure my daughter is ready and quite honestly, I don't know if she is. I am feeling so much pressure from my family to do this baptism NOW. I tried to explain to my mother last night that I'm not sure my daughter is ready but she seems to think she is and is really pushing the issue. I just want to do the right thing for my daughter, but I'm not sure what that is. I don't want to let ANYONE down, but no matter what I decide, someone is going to be upset.

[georgia2]

your mom has no right to pressure you or your daughter. This decision is TOO important to rush in to. She's just thinking of how wonderful it will be. BUT, this is not her decision. You need to stand up for your daughter. You could have a few discussions before you go so that when she sees her cousin getting baptized, she may feel the Spirit and indeed want to be baptized also.

As far as an unfriendly Bishop, thats too bad. BIshops are indeed different from one another and sometimes we do encounter one who isn't warm and fuzzy. AS the missionaries come in to your home you can discuss this with them, also your RS president. Do you have a visiting teacher? ASk about that and let them know you would like them to visit. Maybe they could discuss this with him and let him know you need a little more approachability.

With all this being said, your ward brothers and sisters WANT YOU to be there and feel close and feel the Spirit. Maybe your mother will be able to celebrate Christmas with a more delicious blessing, your daughters baptism!!

[skippy740]

How does your daughter feel about it?

Check out the baptismal interview questions and ask yourself (or her) if she's ready?

http://www.lds.org/languages/additionalmanuals/preachgospel/PreachMyGospel___19_12_BaptismAndConfirmation__36617_eng_019.pdf

See page 206 - the 4th page. The 4th question is probably not appropriate for 8 year olds, but the rest of them will help you gauge if she is ready or not.

[Anddenex]

I dido Georgia's and Skippy's comments.

[skippy740]

Maybe your mother will be able to celebrate Christmas with a more delicious blessing, your daughters baptism!!

On my mission, we called a December baptism "A White Christmas".

[JayJ]

Being baptized outside of your ward boundaries is possible by making proper arraignments with you Bishop. Also, the Bishop holds the keys for "child of record" baptisms - but once the child turns 9, the child's baptism will be considered a convert baptism after missionary teaching.

Have faith in the Bishop and his ability to have compassion on many differing challenges that face the members of the ward.

Keep up with positive changes you are making in you life and may God bless you!

[yourstruly]

Being baptized outside of your ward boundaries is possible by making proper arraignments with you Bishop. Also, the Bishop holds the keys for "child of record" baptisms - but once the child turns 9, the child's baptism will be considered a convert baptism after missionary teaching.

Have faith in the Bishop and his ability to have compassion on many differing challenges that face the members of the ward.

Keep up with positive changes you are making in you life and may God bless you!

Thank you for this information. So just to be sure I correctly understand...even a child of record will be considered a convert baptism after the age of 9? Does that mean that if she is not baptized while she is eight years old then she won't be considered a member anymore?

Thank you for the kind words of encouragement :)

[JayJ]

Being blessed as a baby does not make you an official member of the Church but you are a "child of record" meaning a record number is created in Salt Lake. We only become official members of the Church after baptism and confirmation for the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.

A Bishop holds the priesthood keys to "child of record" baptisms, but once a child reaches the age of 9, the mission president hold the keys to that baptism. We have a few children to whom this procedure would apply. We just experienced this in our unit about 2 months ago.

A child of record who is not baptized at the age of 8 will still have his/her name on the roles of the Church just as they did before so as not to be forgotten. The Lord loves little children.

[Vort]

Being blessed as a baby does not make you an official member of the Church but you are a "child of record" meaning a record number is created in Salt Lake.

It does not make you a member of the Church but, confusingly, it DOES get you counted toward the total Church membership as stated in General Conference. Or so I have been told.

[JayJ]

Handbook 1 instruction:

Members of Record

For statistical and reporting purposes, the following individuals are members of record. Each of them should have a membership record:

1. Those who have been baptized and confirmed.

2. Those under age 9 who have been blessed but not baptized.

3. Those who are not accountable because of intellectual disabilities, regardless of age.

4. Unblessed children under 8 when (a) at least one parent is a member of the Church and (b) both parents give permission for a record to be created. This includes children of converts. (If one parent does not have legal custody of the child, the permission of the parent who has custody is sufficient.)

A person age 9 or older who has a membership record but has not been baptized and confirmed is not considered a member of record. However, the ward in which the person lives retains the membership record until the person is 18. At that time, if the person chooses not to be baptized despite being given every opportunity, the bishop, with written permission from the stake president, cancels the membership record. However, records of unbaptized members who are considered not accountable because of intellectual disabilities are not canceled.

The words of the confirmation are likewise telling: "I confirm you a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and say unto you, receive the Holy Ghost."

Hopefully this will settle any doubts or confusions regarding the idea that we are not covenant members of the Church until we receive this ordinance, having first been baptized.

Edited November 17, 2012 by JayJ