Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 And Palestinian Jews had a range of skin and eye colors, including light skin and blue eyes.This is not true. Some Palestinian Jews today might be fair haired and skinned , but this is a result of intermarriage over the past 2000 years.In 0 AD this would not have occurred yet, and Jews would look like Semites of the day.Just FYI. Quote
Vort Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 This is not true. Some Palestinian Jews today might be fair haired and skinned , but this is a result of intermarriage over the past 2000 years.How do you know this? Contemporary murals and paintings depict fair-skinned peoples as well. What makes you think this genetic diversity was non-existent 2000 years ago? Quote
john doe Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 How do you know this? Contemporary murals and paintings depict fair-skinned peoples as well. What makes you think this genetic diversity was non-existent 2000 years ago?Because everyone knows that no races ever intermarried up until 2000 years ago, silly. Quote
Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 How do you know this? Contemporary murals and paintings depict fair-skinned peoples as well. What makes you think this genetic diversity was non-existent 2000 years ago?I've been studying the Near East for a long time, it's part of my job, and I know of no legitimate scholar who would support your assertion. If you know of some scholarship that would support your claims I would be interested in seeing it. Because everyone knows that no races ever intermarried up until 2000 years ago, silly.I know you're being sarcastic, but you are correct, it would have been considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question. Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 This is not true. Some Palestinian Jews today might be fair haired and skinned , but this is a result of intermarriage over the past 2000 years.In 0 AD this would not have occurred yet, and Jews would look like Semites of the day.Just FYI.Nonsense. Even among "Semites" there was a variety of physical types. Edomites and Moabites, for instance, stood out as being reddish. Even the Bible mentions intermarriage long before 0 AD.Also, please look at the picture I posted of the Mt. Nebo mosaic. The artists clearly saw a difference between physical types and were able to portray different colours. Quote
Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 Nonsense. Even among "Semites" there was a variety of physical types. Edomites and Moabites, for instance, stood out as being reddish. Even the Bible mentions intermarriage long before 0 AD.Also, please look at the picture I posted of the Mt. Nebo mosaic. The artists clearly saw a difference between physical types and were able to portray different colours.Do you have any scholarship to support this position? Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 I've been studying the Near East for a long time, it's part of my job, and I know of no legitimate scholar who would support your assertion. If you know of some scholarship that would support your claims I would be interested in seeing it.Wow, how long has your scholarship been out of date?I know you're being sarcastic, but you are correct, it would have been considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question.There are examples pointing to mixed marriages, such as Sidonians with Greeks and Idumeans. I even posted a picture of one of those families' fresco. Quote
Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 Wow, how long has your scholarship been out of date?I do not think it is, but if you have some legitimate scholars who support your position I would be interested in seeing them.There are examples pointing to mixed marriages, such as Sidonians with Greeks and Idumeans. I even posted a picture of one of those families' fresco.??? And you are saying that the Jewish community in Palestine intermarried this way with enough regularity that by 0 AD there were "Palestinian Jews [who] had a range of skin and eye colors, including light skin and blue eyes"? Please provide some evidence. Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 Do you have any scholarship to support this position?Sure, as a very quick reference, p. 28 of Shaye Cohen's "From the Maccabees to the Mishnah," notes that Greeks in Egypt frequently intermarried with the Egyptians, losing in the process much of their Greekness. Quote
Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 Sure, as a very quick reference, p. 28 of Shaye Cohen's "From the Maccabees to the Mishnah," notes that Greeks in Egypt frequently intermarried with the Egyptians, losing in the process much of their Greekness.They certainly did, particularly after Alexander, but this has nothing to do with Palestinian Jews around 0 AD. Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 I do not think it is, but if you have some legitimate scholars who support your position I would be interested in seeing them.Why don't you provide some references. Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 They certainly did, particularly after Alexander, but this has nothing to do with Palestinian Jews around 0 AD.What happened to your assertion that it was, "considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question." Quote
Dravin Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 What happened to your assertion that it was, "considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question."I think it went something like this: Quote
Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 What happened to your assertion that it was, "considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question."You said "Palestinian Jews had a range of skin and eye colors, including light skin and blue eyes". I thought we were talking about Palestinian Jews? That's why I said ethno-religious. Quote
Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 Why don't you provide some references.??? To support a negative? That is a logical impossibility. Quote
Dravin Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 ??? To support a negative? That is a logical impossibility.I suspect he's talking about references for your claims, not for a references to scholarship you don't believe exists. Quote
Bhodi Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 I suspect he's talking about references for your claims.That I know of no scholars who would support his assertion? How can I produce scholars to support the fact that I know of no scholars who support his position? Shouldn't the responsibility be on his part to show that scholars support his position? Quote
Dravin Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 (edited) That I know of no scholars who would support his assertion? How can I produce scholars to support the fact that I know of no scholars who support his position? Shouldn't the responsibility be on his part to show that scholars support his position?Okay, I'll try again. Hopefully it'll get through this time:You have made claims in this thread concerning homogeneity and lack of intermarriage among Jews. I'll even point them out for convenience:Some Palestinian Jews today might be fair haired and skinned , but this is a result of intermarriage over the past 2000 years.In 0 AD this would not have occurred yet, and Jews would look like Semites of the day.I know you're being sarcastic, but you are correct, it would have been considered highly inappropriate to marry outside of the ethno-religious group during the period in question.What are your sources for those claims. Edited November 25, 2012 by Dravin Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 ??? And you are saying that the Jewish community in Palestine intermarried this way with enough regularity that by 0 AD there were "Palestinian Jews [who] had a range of skin and eye colors, including light skin and blue eyes"? Please provide some evidence.I don't know how common this was, but there were bound to be some like that. Also, it wasn't until the Rabbinic era, as Michael Satlow has shown, that the idea of marriage castes really took off. Tacitus indicates that Jews had a reputation for marrying non-Jews, and this can be supported to a certain extent from other sources. Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 I think it went something like this:Brilliant! Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 That I know of no scholars who would support his assertion? How can I produce scholars to support the fact that I know of no scholars who support his position? Shouldn't the responsibility be on his part to show that scholars support his position?You should be able to provide a scholar who states that mixed marriages did not take place back then. Failing any positive reference, you should at least mention some of the sources that lead you to believe that such was the case.All in all, a very Nicodemean moment! Quote
volgadon Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 You said "Palestinian Jews had a range of skin and eye colors, including light skin and blue eyes". I thought we were talking about Palestinian Jews? That's why I said ethno-religious.How did voRT become voLGADON? Quote
Vort Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 That I know of no scholars who would support his assertion? How can I produce scholars to support the fact that I know of no scholars who support his position? Shouldn't the responsibility be on his part to show that scholars support his position?You're the one making the claim that Palestinian Jewry was homogeneic. Please substantiate this claim. Or are you citing yourself as an authority? Quote
Vort Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 How did voRT become voLGADON?First rule of character naming in novels: In nonstandard names, no one ever looks past the first two letters. Quote
NeuroTypical Posted November 25, 2012 Report Posted November 25, 2012 Hey Bhodi - how come your profile says your location is Italy? Quote
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