What do you think of a stay-at-home mother who tells her working husband the following?

[Vort]

Now for the other side...same requests as before.

Assume for the sake of discussion that everything she says or implies is justified. Please, no snark, just honest expressions of what you think of each of the following sincere statements and why. The wife honestly believes she is justified in each statement.

• "You should get up and get to work early instead of sleeping in every day."

• "If you get organized and discipline yourself, you will get a lot more done at work."

• "I work hard all day long, and I don't think it's asking too much for you to provide a steady, reliable income."

• "I'm willing to help out, but this is your domain, and you have to be the primary breadwinner. I really can't make a significant income; that's your duty."

• "When we got married, we agreed: You would make the money and I would make the home. That was the deal. I haven't backed out of my end of the agreement, so what's going on with your end?"

• "If you loved me more, you would do your duties as we agreed on when we married."

• "Do you understand how much pressure it puts me under to live with such an unpredictable job situation?"

• "Other people know how to thrive at a job. Why don't you talk to them?"

• "I just can't be happy living in this manner, with things not financially reliable like they should be."

• "Why is it MY fault we're arguing? YOU're the one who isn't keeping up his end of the bargain!"

• "When I got married, I wasn't expecting this. I assumed my husband would keep his agreements."

• "Dad never had these kinds of problems with his job situation."

[Dravin]

My thoughts remain the same as the other similar thread.

[Guest]

I don't believe that if I spoke to my husband that way, that it would improve the situation or my marriage at all.

[Gwen]

Like dravin my thoughts remain the same. Such a woman does not want to be married.

[mdfxdb]

I only have a problem with the "Dad" comparison. If she wanted to marry her dad she should have. Everything else seems reasonable. Her husband needs to man up.

[Vort]

One thing I forgot to include in the subject: The husband is chronically struggling in his work.

[Vort]

I only have a problem with the "Dad" comparison. If she wanted to marry her dad she should have. Everything else seems reasonable. Her husband needs to man up.

Do you think the same thing about the wife in the other thread?

[Vort]

Another question: Do you see the two situations as exactly equivalent, or does the fact that one is directed toward the wife and the other directed toward the husband make a difference?

[mdfxdb]

As per the other thread, the same applies, The husband should not compare his wife to his Mom. If he wanted his mommie he should have stayed home and not gotten married....

[Vort]

As per the other thread, the same applies, The husband should not compare his wife to his Mom. If he wanted his mommie he should have stayed home and not gotten married....

But other than that, she should just "woman up" and quit whining?

[Guest]

I don't think keeping a clean house and keeping a job are exactly equivalent, no. If we don't have any money coming in, we can't eat, can't put a roof over our heads, can't clothe the children, can't provide medical or dental care. If the house is messy there are negative consequences, yes, but a closer parallel would be if the wife refused to grocery shop, get the bills paid, acquire clothes for children (I actually spend a lot of effort to do this as economically as possible), take the kids to the doctor or dentist, etc. You can have a messy house and still meet basic needs. Not in the healthiest environment, but still. . .

[Guest]

Actually, I am in a close situation to this right now, for personal reasons I won't go into here. It's hard. It's stressful. But we're working at it together and trying to figure everything out. We're doing so with love and respect and empathy for the other's position. It is not easy, but in spite of the tough situation, our marriage is pretty good.

[Guest]

But other than that, she should just "woman up" and quit whining?

Who says women don't whine?

[mdfxdb]

yep, pretty much. Those types of statements do not just appear, they are a result of one party or the others neglect in their duties to each other and to the marriage as a whole.

That being said...Husbands should help their wifes, and wifes should help their husbands. In a marriage there is no such thing as my part/your part, but most of the time one person or the other cannot do it all and there has to be a division of duties. Once those duties are divided then each spouse must live up to their obligations. IF they are struggling then they should get help from their significant other, but in the end they need to do all they can. Hopefully those things were hashed out before they got married.

[MorningStar]

I think a lot of those statements would be weird because the issue is, "We won't be able to pay rent, bills, or eat if you don't have a job."

If a woman suggests he go to work early, I would think it would be so he wouldn't lose his job or to have more time together as a family. If they have kids with lots of afternoon activities, that makes it easier to get them where they need to go too if both parents are home.

The arguing comment - it takes two people to argue.

I think comparing spouses to other people in both situations is out of line. We all have different weaknesses and strengths.

[Vort]

I don't think keeping a clean house and keeping a job are exactly equivalent, no. If we don't have any money coming in, we can't eat, can't put a roof over our heads, can't clothe the children, can't provide medical or dental care. If the house is messy there are negative consequences, yes, but a closer parallel would be if the wife refused to grocery shop, get the bills paid, acquire clothes for children (I actually spend a lot of effort to do this as economically as possible), take the kids to the doctor or dentist, etc.

Assume the husband is not refusing to work. Assume that, as in the case of the stay-at-home mom being criticized by her husband, he just is not very good at performing his duty (in this case, earning money), and shows only incremental improvement after years of practice.

[Guest]

Assume the husband is not refusing to work. Assume that, as in the case of the stay-at-home mom being criticized by her husband, he just is not very good at performing his duty (in this case, earning money), and shows only incremental improvement after years of practice.

Again, there are probably reasons why. There certainly are in my situation. Compassion and effort on both ends. . . and hopefully an effort to get to the bottom of the problem and do something about it. But it's not as easy as it might sound to resolve. I'm starting to think this is just one of the challenges we've been handed in this life.

[Vort]

I think a lot of those statements would be weird because the issue is, "We won't be able to pay rent, bills, or eat if you don't have a job."

So then, the husband's job is more important than the wife's? Or the consequences of failure are more dire, so the wife is justified in criticizing her husband's failure to perform his duty adequately (in her opinion), even when the husband is not justified in criticizing his wife's failure to perform her duty adequately (in his opinion)?

Is it unrealistic to think that neither spouse should ever criticize the other?

Does anyone think that women are, as Paul puts it, the "weaker member", and are therefore morally allowed as the inferior spouse to criticize their husbands' performance, while men as the superior spouse must never do any such thing toward their wives?

Does anyone think that women are naturally more righteous or spiritual than men, and are therefore morally allowed as the superior spouse to criticize their husbands' performance, while men as the inferior spouse must never do any such thing toward their wives?

[MorningStar]

Assume the husband is not refusing to work. Assume that, as in the case of the stay-at-home mom being criticized by her husband, he just is not very good at performing his duty (in this case, earning money), and shows only incremental improvement after years of practice.

It sounds like a situation that would be very stressful to the husband too. It's not like he would enjoy that. It certainly wouldn't be fair for her to say, "My dad never had employment problems!" Some lines of work are more stable than others. My husband doesn't have a high paying job, but he has never had to deal with unemployment because it's hard to find guys with his skills who don't have substance abuse problems. It's hard to figure out what career to choose that will be prosperous and tolerable.

[Guest]

Does anyone think that women are, as Paul puts it, the "weaker member", and are therefore morally allowed as the inferior spouse to criticize their husbands' performance, while men as the superior spouse must never do any such thing toward their wives?

Does anyone think that women are naturally more righteous or spiritual than men, and are therefore morally allowed as the superior spouse to criticize their husbands' performance, while men as the inferior spouse must never do any such thing toward their wives?

Holy cow, who said anything even remotely close to that?

[MorningStar]

So then, the husband's job is more important than the wife's? Or the consequences of failure are more dire, so the wife is justified in criticizing her husband's failure to perform his duty adequately (in her opinion), even when the husband is not justified in criticizing his wife's failure to perform her duty adequately (in his opinion)?

Is it unrealistic to think that neither spouse should ever criticize the other?

Does anyone think that women are, as Paul puts it, the "weaker member", and are therefore morally allowed as the inferior spouse to criticize their husbands' performance, while men as the superior spouse must never do any such thing toward their wives?

Does anyone think that women are naturally more righteous or spiritual than men, and are therefore morally allowed as the superior spouse to criticize their husbands' performance, while men as the inferior spouse must never do any such thing toward their wives?

No, I think if a woman is intentionally not doing her part, her husband is justified in talking to her about it and if a husband has habits that make him more likely to lose his job, there is a kind way to say, "I'm worried you're going to lose your job and we're going to lose everything because you stay up late and don't go into work until 10." A woman might have health problems that make it difficult for her to keep the house up and a man might have also have problems that make it difficult to support the family, or maybe it's just a difficult job market and no fault of his own.

When my husband took a huge pay cut, I was doing the budget and the only way we could survive was stretching out our tax return. I just told him that one of us needed to bring in more income and I didn't care which one of us it was, but if I were to teach piano, I would need more help with making dinner, picking up the kids, and helping them with homework. He was fine with that and it's been a great thing for me.

[Dravin]

Another question: Do you see the two situations as exactly equivalent, or does the fact that one is directed toward the wife and the other directed toward the husband make a difference?

To be brutally honest with myself if there is a skew it is in he favor of the husband, but I realize that is most probably a self identification issue. There are also some personal insecurities at play for sure. I realize that's an emotional response and not so much a rational one though.

[MorningStar]

You know what's unfair? I will never be laid-off from housekeeping.

[MorningStar]

I think these two would be equivalent to each other.

The wife does no cleaning or meal preparation because she has a crippling addiction to Mario Kart. She would much rather do that all day long. The husband leaves every day while she's playing Mario Kart and when he comes home, she is still playing Mario Kart.

I wouldn't blame the husband one bit if he said, "Have you done a single productive thing today? What gives? This needs to change."

Now let's say a husband loses his job and rather than looking for one, he plays Mario Kart while his stay at home wife continues to clean around him. The unpaid bills are mounting, their utilities might be shut off, and they get a three day notice to pay their rent or vacate.

I would also be understandable if the wive became extremely frustrated because of his refusal to even look for a job.

I doubt though that there are many spouses who flat out refuse to do very important things that their families need.

Edited March 1, 2013 by MorningStar
I want to play Mario Kart really bad.

[Vort]

Holy cow, who said anything even remotely close to that?

No one. I have a chip on my shoulder :), and I'm looking to see if anyone buys into that. If so, I would like to explore the idea. (Despite my shoulder chip, I'm not looking for a fight.)