What does this really mean?

[carlimac]

I read this article recently and some of the comments (spoiler- not very complimentary of our POTUS nor his wife). Not that I put a huge amount of stock in the words of an Iranean leader or in the comment section...

Iran: 2013 will be ‘fall of American empire’

...but it got me wondering- what do people really mean when they say things like, " Our country is going down" or "Life as we know (or knew) it will soon be over"? Can anyone describe how " things" are expected change? It's all so vague. What would we have to sacrifice? How would we as LDS be impacted? Are people talking about the country plunging into abject poverty or are they talking in terms of morality, crime, chaos? What freedoms would we lose?

I can already imagine freedom of religion being affected, but what else? Are all these folks just overreacting?

[Anddenex]

...but it got me wondering- what do people really mean when they say things like, " Our country is going down" or "Life as we know (or knew) it will soon be over"? Can anyone describe how " things" are expected change? It's all so vague. What would we have to sacrifice? How would we as LDS be impacted? Are people talking about the country plunging into abject poverty or are they talking in terms of morality, crime, chaos? What freedoms would we lose?

I can already imagine freedom of religion being affected, but what else? Are all these folks just overreacting?

This is the way I am understanding their interpretation and words; obviously I could also be wrong.

In the United States we have been given a Constitution which we also believe to be inspired by God. "Our country going down..." would mean that rights given to us by our creator and our constitution are being lost, once these are lost -- what else can be lost?

Our children will not be able to enjoy the freedom's we now enjoy with individual rights being lost, and some rights which are not rights are being discussed and have been given. If the court upholds SSM then, children will be taught alternative lifestyles in school and are ok. This obviously affects religious people. Life will not be the same as we know it.

Our civilization is growing in hatred, and the love of many, as prophesied, is waxing cold. It would not be a surprise to me if we entered into another civil war not to far from now due to the enmity that exists in people's hearts.

The U.S. is ripening in iniquity. When? How long? until the Lord fully withdraws himself as he did with Sodom, and other places?

Yes, the tides are changing in both positive and negative ways. These changes will affect everyone.

[carlimac]

Thanks Anddenex.

I'm really surprised no one else has anything else to say on this matter. Has it been discussed on some other thread? Someone point me in that direction if it has.

Perhaps it's all just speculation anyway, but there surely seem to be a bunch of people who think "Change is coming." I just want to know what they think is going to change and just how drastically.

[annewandering]

Most of them seem to think Obama is the AntiChrist and will bring about Armaggedon. Armaggedon and all it entails like having to have a stockpile of guns and bullets to fight off the marauding bandits and pillagers.

I do not disagree with things going to pot but its more likely to be related our lack of faith in God and following His commandments not some bogyman. There will be many antichrists and it seems like we have them running around saying 'the sky is falling! the sky is falling', triggering a lot of crazy paranoia.

[carlimac]

Most of them seem to think Obama is the AntiChrist and will bring about Armaggedon. Armaggedon and all it entails like having to have a stockpile of guns and bullets to fight off the marauding bandits and pillagers.

I do not disagree with things going to pot but its more likely to be related our lack of faith in God and following His commandments not some bogyman. There will be many antichrists and it seems like we have them running around saying 'the sky is falling! the sky is falling', triggering a lot of crazy paranoia.

Yes there are a few Chicken Littles on that extreme end of the spectrum. But I wonder about others' point of view. I'm just trying to imagine what they foresee...50% or more unemployment? All h*** breaking loose with morality? ( we're 'bout there already) Lack of adequate food and clean water? No toilet paper or disposable diapers? Invasion and control of our country by radical Muslims? Total socialism or even communism? Removal of chocolate from store shelves? If a civil war happens, what will be the weapon of destruction used against the other side? How would a civil war play out? Geographically or just left and right ideologies?

What do folks imagine as real possibilities?

[annewandering]

My feeling is the fracking will trigger the New Madrid earthquake which because of the solid rock base on the east side of the Mississippi will trigger the east coast into an earthquake which is rare there but not unknown. The pipelines and traffic lanes crossing the Mississippi will collapse causing massive transportation of goods blockages along with contaminating the river and gulf.

Our attention will be on our own disasters which will give the antiIsrael people the idea that it would be a good time to attack and destroy Israel which will trigger the final war.

It will take very little time to have everything collapse.

Is that what you wanted?

[carlimac]

My feeling is the fracking will trigger the New Madrid earthquake which because of the solid rock base on the east side of the Mississippi will trigger the east coast into an earthquake which is rare there but not unknown. The pipelines and traffic lanes crossing the Mississippi will collapse causing massive transportation of goods blockages along with contaminating the river and gulf.

Our attention will be on our own disasters which will give the antiIsrael people the idea that it would be a good time to attack and destroy Israel which will trigger the final war.

It will take very little time to have everything collapse.

Is that what you wanted?

Well...uh, sort of. That would certainly be a pretty big upset. That's creative thinking anyway.

I tend to think things that affect the entire country won't happen that fast or dramatically. I think the changes will sneak up on us like gay marriage has and then all of the sudden, no one knows how to stop the freight train from plowing us over or how to turn it around. But again, I'm trying to imagine exactly what the changes will be.

Edited April 2, 2013 by carlimac

[bytebear]

I believe that too many social and economic decisions are being filtered up to the federal government. Now a lot of people love that because it "protects" them from living in states or communities who don't hold the same views. The issue is irrelevant. It could be prayer in school, abortion, public nudity, wearing fur, whatever. But so many people see their cause as so important they must push it to national forefront. They want to force it to everyone else. And when a national law or decision is made, people rejoice (at least the ones who want it).

But even if 99% of people agree, it's still a loss for America. Why? Not because the idea is bad, or the decision is wrong (although that is often the case). As I said, the issue is irrelevant. The problem is, we have just given power to the state over our own personal liberty. And the more we do so the more in danger we are of having a dictator or oppressive party swoop in and take away all of our rights in the name of public safety, or popularity, and we have given that right to them over the years as we allow them to dictate what can be done by the federal government. So, yes, I think at some point in the future, a president will come along and take everything from us, and we'll complain but it will be too late. We've already given away our liberty. We've let the court decide what powers the president or congress or whoever has, and they can decide anything, regardless of our beliefs. And those who oppose them will be called out as unpatriotic and will be marginalized.

I hate to use Godwin's Law but just look at what happened in Hitler's Germany. They were not evil people, just naive. And we are far too naive and easy to accept "rights" and "entitlements" in the name of equality and fairness.

Give a good ruler all the power, and think how wonderful. But what will the next ruler be like? Will he also be for your ideals? Will he care since you gave him all the power?

Edited April 2, 2013 by bytebear

[Guest]

My feeling is the fracking will trigger the New Madrid earthquake which because of the solid rock base on the east side of the Mississippi will trigger the east coast into an earthquake which is rare there but not unknown. The pipelines and traffic lanes crossing the Mississippi will collapse causing massive transportation of goods blockages along with contaminating the river and gulf.

Our attention will be on our own disasters which will give the antiIsrael people the idea that it would be a good time to attack and destroy Israel which will trigger the final war.

It will take very little time to have everything collapse.

Is that what you wanted?

Creative thinking for sure. Highly improbable though.

Here's my creative thinking contribution:

The US will do a re-enactment of 1930's Germany where inflation shoots through the roof (it's doing that already - last October, $1 = 45 pesos, today $1 = 40) caused by massive debt. Gasoline will cost $20/gallon and bread will be $10/loaf. The government will force a price ceiling on everything driving businesses to shut down. China will swoop in with their economic leverage controlling all of the US economic power. The Euro is also in trouble, therefore, the EU nations will be too weak to lend a hand. And either North Korea or Iran or both will declare war against the US and their ally nations. China and Russia will back North Korea who will then attempt a take-over of all of Asia, Egypt/Saudi Arabia/and the rest of the Arab world will back Iran who will then try to attempt a take-over of Europe. US/Britain/Germany/France will not have enough resources to fight the war. Israel will be nuclear waste zone.

And the Doomsday Preppers will go on lock-down killing anybody who will try to take over their storage.

How's that?

Edited April 2, 2013 by anatess

[carlimac]

Creative thinking for sure. Highly improbable though.

Here's my creative thinking contribution:

The US will do a re-enactment of 1930's Germany where inflation shoots through the roof (it's doing that already - last October, $1 = 45 pesos, today $1 = 40) caused by massive debt. Gasoline will cost $20/gallon and bread will be $10/loaf. The government will force a price ceiling on everything driving businesses to shut down. China will swoop in with their economic leverage controlling all of the US economic power. The Euro is also in trouble, therefore, the EU nations will be too weak to lend a hand. And either North Korea or Iran or both will declare war against the US and their ally nations. China and Russia will back North Korea who will then attempt a take-over of all of Asia, Egypt/Saudi Arabia/and the rest of the Arab world will back Iran who will then try to attempt a take-over of Europe. US/Britain/Germany/France will not have enough resources to fight the war. Israel will be nuclear waste zone.

And the Doomsday Preppers will go on lock-down killing anybody who will try to take over their storage.

How's that?

Wow! You guys are good!

[MrPickles]

It's all doom and gloom. I don't read to much into it and don't get worked up over it. Maybe I should. All I know is that when I wake up tomorrow morning and put my pants on things won't be to much different for me then than they are today. Regardless of who is president and regardless of what Iran or North Korea decide to do.

[dahlia]

Thanks Anddenex.

Perhaps it's all just speculation anyway, but there surely seem to be a bunch of people who think "Change is coming." I just want to know what they think is going to change and just how drastically.

Change may be coming, but I'm not trusting any Iranian military official to tell me what it is. Do you recall the 'Mother of all Wars'? Does 'Death to America' not ring any bells? This statements, these anti-US feelings, are not new and are common to that part of the world. People mired so deep in hate tend toward hyperbole. And as far as I know, none of them as any more ability to tell the future than I do.

Personally, I'm more worried about Obama has in store for my shrinking paycheck.

[carlimac]

Change may be coming, but I'm not trusting any Iranian military official to tell me what it is. Do you recall the 'Mother of all Wars'? Does 'Death to America' not ring any bells? This statements, these anti-US feelings, are not new and are common to that part of the world. People mired so deep in hate tend toward hyperbole. And as far as I know, none of them as any more ability to tell the future than I do.

Personally, I'm more worried about Obama has in store for my shrinking paycheck.

I agree. I'm not so worried about Iran taking over America. I'm just curious about what all the commentors on that article are thinking when they say America is doomed.

[talisyn]

It's a race to see who destroys America first, Pres. AntiChrist Obama and fracking. My money is on fracking ^^ Research Presented at the American Geophysical Union Meeting Link Earthquake Activity to Waste Water from Fracking in Shale Gas Regions | MIT Technology Review

[annewandering]

I kinda laughed a little when people here said fracking being farfetched and 'creative' as the catalyst to the destruction of the country. Consider this: Joseph Smith said that an earthquake would lay Missouri flat. Then there is the Joseph Smith prophesy that the major cities along the east coast would be devastated by an earthquake. Fracking could connect these two events.

Fracking takes place not only in southern midwest states, OK, Texas, etc. but it is practiced in Penn, NJ, and many other states including western states, for instance NM.

Think about what is going to happen when these earthquakes occur. Transportation between the two halves of the US are going to be gone. Oddly the least affected will probably be the mountain west area. By coincidence? where the church is based.

Would this be purely a natural occurrence? Nope. Fracking is continued despite the troubling increase in earthquakes in areas where its done. Along with the quakes the water is also being contaminated. That alone would hinder recovery. All this is a direct result of people just not caring about the damage they cause.

People bring about their own destruction. The form the destruction takes is up the God but we certainly can bring it about by our actions.

We have been told that this is a promised land but if we forget Him it will be taken from us. Look around and see what we have done to ourselves. Love our neighbors? Seriously? Love God? Anyone who loves God is called a bigot and mocked. Half of all babies are born out of marriage. Many are aborted. More and more people cant find work to provide for themselves and their families. Wars are started for gain. Stupid people do things like this for 'fun'. Anonymous says hello to North Korea with multiple hacks, sites defaced | FreakOutNation How much more stupid and selfish can people get?

The fracking is a symptom of the stupidity and selfishness. When we think about how it can all go downhill to actually destroy our country it has a good chance of happening as I said.

[carlimac]

Well you've educated me on fracking. I had never heard of it. It still sounds a little farfetched- wouldn't there be more earthquakes in the Middle East? But thanks for opening my eyes to this.