Marriage and the Afterlife

[Guest DeusCaritasEst]

Let me put it another way. When we (LDS) are baptized we make a promise with God that we will keep his commandments or a covenant in other words. We then know that God in return will bless us. We don't always recognize the blessings He gives us but he does bless us. Those blessings could be a number of things. Good health, happiness, a number of things. But again, it's all predicated on us keeping our part of the promise in order to receive those blessings.

If we don't do our part, we lose many of the blessings we might have otherwise received.

Ok, well in contrast the Catholic Church teaches that the baptized are forgiven of sins, original and personal, partake in the Divine nature of Christ and are made temples of the Holy Spirit. Graces and blessings are given to the faithful always and freely, however the faithful must accept those graces if they are to benefit from them.

[Guest DeusCaritasEst]

Interesting, making a promise with God is "foolishness." I wonder how you then interpret this as a Catholic:

"There are two types of priests within the Church; a "religious" priest who vows to live according to the evangelical counsels within the framework of an established religious community, and a "diocesan" priest. The diocesan priest does not live within a religious community, rather he ministers in a specific geographical area. He does not make vows to live the evangelical counsels in the same manner as his religious priest brethren. Upon his ordination, he vows obedience to God, through the Bishop of his chosen diocese. That vow of obedience encompasses a voluntary promise of celibacy for the sake of the Church."

1. Do you find this individuals information correct?

2. He "vows" and "voluntary promises" to be celibate?

3. Your view then this promise would be foolish because it can be, as you say, "easily made, easily broken"?

Even so in the context of salvation it makes no sense for me to promise God that I will always keep His word if He grants me heaven. I cannot hold God to a promise. As for priests promising to be celibate and obedient I am going to have to do more reading.

[Guest]

Fair enough, however, partaking in the Eucharistic Feast known as the Mass is not me making a promise to God according to Catholic teachings, but entering into the Divine life of Christ. It would be foolish of me to promise God anything, for one they would be pie crust promises(easily made, easily broken). Additionally, we can't do anything if God did not will it so. If an "I'll do this if you'll do that" is the relationship shared with God it seems we can choose to do His will or not, Gods part is done regardless.

I think you need to revisit your Catholic instruction. A vital part of partaking in the Eucharist is the renewal of your covenants. And a vital part of Catholic doctrine is FREE WILL. God allows us freedom to choose good or bad. One of the main differences between LDS and Catholic theology is that in Catholic theology Adam's fall from grace in the Garden was not God's will. In LDS theology the fall of Adam is part of God's Plan for our Salvation.

Here's a very basic teaching on the purpose of the Mass in the Catholic Church. I'm quoting a piece of it here for your easy perusal.

At Mass when we receive the Eucharist, Jesus’ body and blood under the appearance of bread and wine (just like at the Last Supper), we are renewing our covenant with God. We are reconfirming our promise to God to live out our end of the relationship.

A covenant, in this context, is a type of relationship. The type of relationship that God has always had with his people is a covenant. Covenantal relationships are whereby each party mutually agrees to something.

God loves us endlessly and infinitely. God forgives us endlessly and infinitely. Our mutual response to God is to love him as much as we can even though our love is finite. Our response is to obey God and receive his freely given grace to help bring the Kingdom of God here on Earth.

When we receive the Eucharist at each Mass we are making that promise to God that we will hold up our end of the covenant. We are also unifying ourselves to God and to the other members of the Church through the Body of Christ.

Okay, this is LDS.net, not Catholic.net and it is silly that I'm teaching Catholicism here. My advice for you DeusCaritasEst is to do an in-depth study of whatever religious beliefs you put your faith in. Whether it be LDS or Catholic, one has to search and ponder diligently and seek humbly and sincerely the truth of all things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

Edited May 23, 2013 by anatess

[Guest]

Even so in the context of salvation it makes no sense for me to promise God that I will always keep His word if He grants me heaven. I cannot hold God to a promise. As for priests promising to be celibate and obedient I am going to have to do more reading.

There is no need to hold God to a promise because God is God. He established His covenant with His people and that covenant cannot be broken by God. It can only be broken by Man. Therefore, as long as man does his part in the covenant, God's part of the covenant is a surety because it is His desire to do so.

[pam]

As Anatess has mentioned several times, this happens to be LDS Gospel Discussion. If you care to start a thread regarding this in the Christian Beliefs Discussion you are welcome to do so.

[Leah]

As Anatess has mentioned several times, this happens to be LDS Gospel Discussion. If you care to start a thread regarding this in the Christian Beliefs Discussion you are welcome to do so.

Yeah...it can be confusing for people to a forum that is supposed to be a discussion of LDS gospel, only to find a thread full of Catholic misinformation. I mean, what is the purpose of posting that kind of stuff? It would seem there is an intent to attempt to demonstrate that the LDS church is "wrong", but the arguments about Catholicism don't even contain correct information.

[Anddenex]

Even so in the context of salvation it makes no sense for me to promise God that I will always keep His word if He grants me heaven.

In context of Salvation, the covenant/oath we make with God has already been established by God before the foundations of this world; thus, any attempt by man to change this covenant would be futile. The specific conditions to obtain salvation or exaltation have already been set. We either choose to accept the covenant or reject the covenant. A person's desire to change this covenant will be like unto the man who drinks and eats to his full, then awakes realizing it was a dream and he is still thirsty and hungry.

I cannot hold God to a promise.

Interesting. What is the difference between a covenant made with man in contrast to a covenant made with God?

When we make a covenant with man, man being "natural man," there is always the possibility that one of the partners will not "hold" his end of the agreement. Thus, we have mediators who step-in and ensure the agreement is upheld as necessary. If all men, were honest men, then "holding" someone to an agreement would be unnecessary as well.

When we make a covenant with God, "holding" God to any covenant is not necessary because God is a God of truth and cannot lie. If he makes a promise, salvation promise, then the promise is sure and true. We need not worry about "holding' God to anything because he will deliver if we obey.

With God, however, we have a mediator, Jesus Christ, and I have always loved these words once I read them, Doctrine and Covenants 45:3-5

Thus, the technical word used when we receive promises from God -- trust. We exercise faith and trust in his timing to fulfill the promise and that God is a God of truth and cannot lie.