Adoption And Unwed Parents

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

Read again what I said: The LDS CHURCH does not. It never has and never will. The Doctrines of the CHURCH is AGENCY.</span>The human beings you have dealt with may have stressed and used guilt on your son and girlfriend. But had these humans actually forced your son and girlfriend - the child would be with other parents.

Again The CHURCH of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does <span style="color:#CC0000">NOT FORCE THEIR members to do anything. Ever!!!

Mrs.S: Iam sorry to disappoint you but in the case of my son and his ex-g/f/s situation YES they most certinally DID TRY!!!! I have the paper work at my home in UT to back me up...Honey I'am sorry to say but in OUR case YES THE CHURCH AND THE AGENCY'S did try to do exactly that!! Also the person who started this tread "Red ruby" is my younger sister by 2 yr's after her and I were talking we decieded to post this question to see if the LDS church had advised anyone else the way the LDS Family Social Service's tryed to do to my son and his ex-g/f.

[Guest bizabra]

Of course, THE CHURCH and it's leaders and agents (in this case, in the form of the LDS Social Services) won't and CAN'T FORCE anyone to give up a child for adoption.

However, speaking from personal experience (see my post above) THE CHURCH and it's CULTURE does and will exert some intense pressure to do so.

The young woman or young man will be told over and over that it is best for the child to have 2 parents, that they will get to "start over" and that it will be easier to get your life back on the repentance track if you don't have the added responsibility of a new life as well, that "no-one will need to KNOW" (by offering "foster parents" to live with in another State until they give birth, that deserving parents who can't have kids are waiting for the "blessing" of raising your child, blah blah blah.

I know this. I was a young pregnant mormon teen. If my parents had not supported me and my child, if they had laid down an ultimatum, or were so ashamed that they had shipped me off to live with strangers, I would likely have succumbed to the pressure and given in. I wouldn't have know what else I could do!

Simply because it SEEMS as if a young person in trouble has choices doesn't mean they actually DO! Free agency may sometimes exist in theory ONLY.

Perhaps it is all well-meaning, but there's an old saying that the Path to "Heck" is paved with Good Intentions. Gee, ya think?

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

Of course, THE CHURCH and it's leaders and agents (in this case, in the form of the LDS Social Services) won't and CAN'T FORCE anyone to give up a child for adoption.

However, speaking from personal experience (see my post above) THE CHURCH and it's CULTURE does and will exert some intense pressure to do so.

The young woman or young man will be told over and over that it is best for the child to have 2 parents, that they will get to "start over" and that it will be easier to get your life back on the repentance track if you don't have the added responsibility of a new life as well, that "no-one will need to KNOW" (by offering "foster parents" to live with in another State until they give birth, that deserving parents who can't have kids are waiting for the "blessing" of raising your child, blah blah blah.

I know this. I was a young pregnant mormon teen. If my parents had not supported me and my child, if they had laid down an ultimatum, or were so ashamed that they had shipped me off to live with strangers, I would likely have succumbed to the pressure and given in. I wouldn't have know what else I could do!

Simply because it SEEMS as if a young person in trouble has choices doesn't mean they actually DO! Free agency may sometimes exist in theory ONLY.

Perhaps it is all well-meaning, but there's an old saying that the Path to "Heck" is paved with Good Intentions. Gee, ya think?

Bizabra: YES the LDS Church DOES AND DID TRY to put MUCH pressure on my son and his ex-g/f to give their baby up for adoption along with the ex g/f's parents and their bishop,thank goodness OUR LDS Bishop understood my son's position on this issue and he respected my son's feeling's and applied NO pressure what so ever!!!! And WE as a family appreciated that very much....Please dont try and patronize me by saying that the path to "HECK" is paved with good intention's...All Iam saying is that in the case of our family and "MY" Granddaughter the decision that was made to keep her and NOT give into the pressure's put upon these two young kids at the time was the RIGHT CHOICE FOR THEM AND MY GRANDDAUGHTER AND OUR FAMILY!! Bluesaphires_n_diamonds..aka "J" :)

[Traveler]

YES the LDS Church DOES AND DID TRY to put MUCH pressure on my son and his ex-g/f to give their baby up for adoption along with the ex g/f's parents and their bishop,thank goodness OUR LDS Bishop understood my son's position on this issue and he respected my son's feeling's and applied NO pressure what so ever!!!! And WE as a family appreciated that very much....Please dont try and patronize me by saying that the path to "HECK" is paved with good intention's...All Iam saying is that in the case of our family and "MY" Granddaughter the decision that was made to keep her and NOT give into the pressure's put upon these two young kids at the time was the RIGHT CHOICE FOR THEM AND MY GRANDDAUGHTER AND OUR FAMILY!! Bluesaphires_n_diamonds..aka "J" :)

I do not ask this to pry and since there is no way to follow-up other than your word - nor do I intend to change anything. I have my own opinions that have been formed from experiences that I have and from covenants that I consider sacred and important. I am evaluating my position since you are very strong on yours. Some questions:

One: For the last 6 years has your son been a full tithe payer?

Two: Has your granddaughter been christened Catholic? If she was – would you care?

Three: Do you have an opinion concerning the religion of your granddaughter?

Four: Will your granddaughter be baptized when she is 8? Will her father baptize and confirm your granddaughter a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints near her 8th birthday. If so – how does her other grandparents feel about this?

Five: Does the mother want her daughter to be Catholic, LDS, some other religion or does not care what religion is taught to your granddaughter?

Six: Is your son – the girl’s father, ordained and worthy to perform confirmations? Are both parents looking forward to her baptism at the age of 8?

Seven: Do you believe it is worth while or important for children to grow up sealed to someone and under “the covenant”? Would encouragement be considered efforts to force?

Eight: Do you consider these questions obnoxious, demonstrates lack of caring for your granddaughter or intrusive concerning your granddaughter and family?

Thank you – The Traveler

[Maureen]

....Please dont try and patronize me by saying that the path to "HECK" is paved with good intention's...

I sometimes get stuck on certain sentences in posts and must delve further for answers.

bluesaphire..., I'm just curious why you think BIZ was being patronizing to you. :)

M.

[Guest MrsS]

Mrs.S: Iam sorry to disappoint you Don't you be patronizing to me but in the case of my son and his ex-g/f/s situation YES they most certinally DID TRY!!!! I have the paper work at my home in UT to back me up...Honey I am not your honey, Chances are real good that I am older than you, plus I never gave you permission to address me in such an informal, personal manner I'am sorry to say but in OUR case YES THE CHURCH AND THE AGENCY'S You are totally reading my post wrong. The Church does not force its members to do anything. People force people. NOT THE CHURCH. did try to do exactly that!! Also the person who started this tread "Red ruby" is my younger sister by 2 yr's after her and I were talking we decieded to post this question to see if the LDS church You should have written this up and sent it to 1) Your Stake President, 2) the First Presidency, 3) LDS Family Social Services. By putting it in a very public forum you deserve the vast range of comments both pro and con you have received, and also questioning that you are even telling the truth , which obviouslly you do not want to hear had advised anyone else the way the LDS Family Social Service's tryed to do to my son and his ex-g/f.

For Your Information the AGENCY I am referring to is the agency Father has freely given to ALL OF HIS CHILDREN. As in: Your son and the Mother of his child have the agency to choose what they will or will not do. Such as break the law of chastity, which they freely did. The CHURCH will never take away anothers agency. Thus you saying that they were forcing your son and the girlfriend is in error. People, Human Beings, Natural Man were doing the forcing.

[Guest bizabra]

<div class='quotemain'>

Of course, THE CHURCH and it's leaders and agents (in this case, in the form of the LDS Social Services) won't and CAN'T FORCE anyone to give up a child for adoption.

However, speaking from personal experience (see my post above) THE CHURCH and it's CULTURE does and will exert some intense pressure to do so.

The young woman or young man will be told over and over that it is best for the child to have 2 parents, that they will get to "start over" and that it will be easier to get your life back on the repentance track if you don't have the added responsibility of a new life as well, that "no-one will need to KNOW" (by offering "foster parents" to live with in another State until they give birth, that deserving parents who can't have kids are waiting for the "blessing" of raising your child, blah blah blah.

I know this. I was a young pregnant mormon teen. If my parents had not supported me and my child, if they had laid down an ultimatum, or were so ashamed that they had shipped me off to live with strangers, I would likely have succumbed to the pressure and given in. I wouldn't have know what else I could do!

Simply because it SEEMS as if a young person in trouble has choices doesn't mean they actually DO! Free agency may sometimes exist in theory ONLY.

Perhaps it is all well-meaning, but there's an old saying that the Path to "Heck" is paved with Good Intentions. Gee, ya think?

Bizabra: YES the LDS Church DOES AND DID TRY to put MUCH pressure on my son and his ex-g/f to give their baby up for adoption along with the ex g/f's parents and their bishop,thank goodness OUR LDS Bishop understood my son's position on this issue and he respected my son's feeling's and applied NO pressure what so ever!!!! And WE as a family appreciated that very much....Please dont try and patronize me by saying that the path to "HECK" is paved with good intention's...All Iam saying is that in the case of our family and "MY" Granddaughter the decision that was made to keep her and NOT give into the pressure's put upon these two young kids at the time was the RIGHT CHOICE FOR THEM AND MY GRANDDAUGHTER AND OUR FAMILY!! Bluesaphires_n_diamonds..aka "J" :)

BIZ: HEY! I'm on YOUR side! I was saying that those who tried to get me to put my baby up for adoption MAY have been well-intentioned, but in fact, their ACTIONS were hurtful and it was very painful to feel that others thought the ONLY right choice would have been to give him to a good MORMON couple instead of lil ol' "unworthy" me raising him myself with the help of my family!

ALL cases are individual, and MUST be left up to the people involved and should be without institutional pressure! I was saying that the CHURCH can't ACTUALLY FORCE you to do anything, but often, given the pressure exerted by family and "possibly" well-meaning people, the end result is pretty much identical to FORCE. If my family had not supported me, I would likely have succombed to the pressure and done what OTHERS thought was "right" for me.

Please don't think I am NOT on your side here!

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

Mrs.S: Iam sorry to disappoint you Don't you be patronizing to me but in the case of my son and his ex-g/f/s situation YES they most certinally DID TRY!!!! I have the paper work at my home in UT to back me up...Honey I am not your honey, Chances are real good that I am older than you, plus I never gave you permission to address me in such an informal, personal manner I'am sorry to say but in OUR case YES THE CHURCH AND THE AGENCY'S You are totally reading my post wrong. The Church does not force its members to do anything. People force people. NOT THE CHURCH. did try to do exactly that!! Also the person who started this tread "Red ruby" is my younger sister by 2 yr's after her and I were talking we decieded to post this question to see if the LDS church You should have written this up and sent it to 1) Your Stake President, 2) the First Presidency, 3) LDS Family Social Services. By putting it in a very public forum you deserve the vast range of comments both pro and con you have received, and also questioning that you are even telling the truth , which obviouslly you do not want to hear had advised anyone else the way the LDS Family Social Service's tryed to do to my son and his ex-g/f.

Mrs.S: First of all Iam sorry that you took offence to my expression of the word "honey" in my last comment to you since that is a word I use often. Further more HOW DARE YOU COMMENT AND EVEN QUESTION "IF' IAM TELLING YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN OUR CASE TO MY SON AND HIS EX-G/F... I take offence to your comment,I certinally am NOT a lier!!! my GOODNESS MRS. S LIGHTEN UP!!!!!!!!!! Bluesaphires_n_diamonds.

For Your Information the AGENCY I am referring to is the agency Father has freely given to ALL OF HIS CHILDREN. As in: Your son and the Mother of his child have the agency to choose what they will or will not do. Such as break the law of chastity, which they freely did. The CHURCH will never take away anothers agency. Thus you saying that they were forcing your son and the girlfriend is in error. People, Human Beings, Natural Man were doing the forcing.

[bluesaphires_n_diamonds]

<div class='quotemain'>

Mrs.S: Iam sorry to disappoint you Don't you be patronizing to me but in the case of my son and his ex-g/f/s situation YES they most certinally DID TRY!!!! I have the paper work at my home in UT to back me up...Honey I am not your honey, Chances are real good that I am older than you, plus I never gave you permission to address me in such an informal, personal manner I'am sorry to say but in OUR case YES THE CHURCH AND THE AGENCY'S You are totally reading my post wrong. The Church does not force its members to do anything. People force people. NOT THE CHURCH. did try to do exactly that!! Also the person who started this tread "Red ruby" is my younger sister by 2 yr's after her and I were talking we decieded to post this question to see if the LDS church You should have written this up and sent it to 1) Your Stake President, 2) the First Presidency, 3) LDS Family Social Services. By putting it in a very public forum you deserve the vast range of comments both pro and con you have received, and also questioning that you are even telling the truth , which obviouslly you do not want to hear had advised anyone else the way the LDS Family Social Service's tryed to do to my son and his ex-g/f.

Mrs.S: First of all Iam sorry that you took offence to my expression of the word "honey" in my last comment to you since that is a word I use often. Further more HOW DARE YOU COMMENT AND EVEN QUESTION "IF' IAM TELLING YOU THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN OUR CASE TO MY SON AND HIS EX-G/F... I take offence to your comment,I certinally am NOT a lier!!! my GOODNESS MRS. S LIGHTEN UP!!!!!!!!!! Bluesaphires_n_diamonds.

For Your Information the AGENCY I am referring to is the agency Father has freely given to ALL OF HIS CHILDREN. As in: Your son and the Mother of his child have the agency to choose what they will or will not do. Such as break the law of chastity, which they freely did. The CHURCH will never take away anothers agency. Thus you saying that they were forcing your son and the girlfriend is in error. People, Human Beings, Natural Man were doing the forcing.

Mrs.S: I also learned at a very early age to NOT LIE isnt that what OUR(LDS) church teach?? And my parent's also taught us that. Further more I dont mind the comments by everyone pro and con thats why the question was posted in the first place to get other's opinion's. I was also under the impression that the member's of our church were NOT supposed to be MEAN OR NASTY(unlike you),at least thats what the church had taught me and also my parents in my humble opinion a person can get their point across without insulting other people or member's of the LDS faith!! Any way by the way this comment that follow's my comment to you is from my sister "Red Ruby" whom just so happen's to be my younger sister she posted the original question at my request as her and I were talking about this issue. Unfortunatly due to the remarks and unfriendly comments she asked them(ppl in charge of this forum) to remove her from this forum. Now unfortunatly because of the responce she recieved from people like you I probably wont ever be able to convert her back into the LDS faith but dont get me wrong that now isnt the only reason why I dont think that will ever happen... Thank-you Bluesaphires_n_diamonds.

[Guest Yediyd]

Perhaps we should leave the judging to God.

My thoughts exactly. I know someone who was in this EXACT pridicament. Her bishop advised her to give up the child, when she didn't....that same bishop advised the other young women not to "hang" with her. She was so hurt by the ostrization that she has left the church.

As for the child? She is a happy, healthy 7 yr old who soon will be 8 and baptised by her grandfather. the grandparrents stepped up....they are helping my friend raise her child, and are there for my friend. the grandparrents are faithfull, Temple worthy friends of mine as well.

The girl in question, was so hurt by the judgement that she recieved that she has no desire to EVER come back to LDS.

TRAGIC!!!!

[Guest Yediyd]

BTW...I carried two children in my womb, call me selfish...but I could not bare the thought of giving them up.

I notice it was a MAN who said this. Until you have had a child in YOUR body for 9 months and then travaled in labor to give birth to that child...I suggest you have no idea what tremendous pain it would take to give up that child.

Who knows what the right decision is? For my friend...her child is being raised in a good home (grandparrents and mother) and raised in the church even though the mother does not come, the grandparents and the child are in church every week.

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

If it was not for our boys we would have had young women from the LDS social services in our home.

Thank goodness you have boys.

Young women who come from societies that judge them for "sinning," such as breaking the law of chastity, are already feeling a good deal of shame if they become pregnant while still a teenager. Additionally, the range of emotions a young woman goes through while pregnant is full of anguish, despair, hope, joy, sadness, etc. In other words, it's a constant roller coaster, one that becomes unbearable once she begins to feel that fluttery butterfly in her tummy, and realizes that's her baby, especially if she's considering giving him/her up for adoption.

Unfortunately, based on your posts, at this point you would begin lecturing her about how selfish she is to keep her child while all she can think of is what nature wants her to think of--the wonder of it all--I am going to have a baby!

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine this poor young woman having to spend her pregnancy under your roof, with your condemnation lingering in the air. Your house would be the last place I would want any young woman, who needs love and support during this difficult time, to be.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with adoption, and it is often the best choice for the young woman.

But you are a man, so obviously a man, who has no clue about what it feels like to be this young, frightened, mother who wants to do the right thing, but seriously doesn't know what that is. Perhaps the answer is adoption. But shaming her, badgering her with how selfish she'll be if she doesn't do it, or lecturing her on how she is part of the "Me" generation if she chooses to keep her child is abusive.

I should say I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I'm not. I have a huge problem with men lecturing women about isues they know nothing about, especially pregnancy.

Emma

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>If it was not for our boys we would have had young women from the LDS social services in our home.

Thank goodness you have boys.

Young women who come from societies that judge them for "sinning," such as breaking the law of chastity, are already feeling a good deal of shame if they become pregnant while still a teenager. Additionally, the range of emotions a young woman goes through while pregnant is full of anguish, despair, hope, joy, sadness, etc. In other words, it's a constant roller coaster, one that becomes unbearable once she begins to feel that fluttery butterfly in her tummy, and realizes that's her baby, especially if she's considering giving him/her up for adoption.

Unfortunately, based on your posts, at this point you would begin lecturing her about how selfish she is to keep her child while all she can think of is what nature wants her to think of--the wonder of it all--I am going to have a baby!

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine this poor young woman having to spend her pregnancy under your roof, with your condemnation lingering in the air. Your house would be the last place I would want any young woman, who needs love and support during this difficult time, to be.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with adoption, and it is often the best choice for the young woman.

But you are a man, so obviously a man, who has no clue about what it feels like to be this young, frightened, mother who wants to do the right thing, but seriously doesn't know what that is. Perhaps the answer is adoption. But shaming her, badgering her with how selfish she'll be if she doesn't do it, or lecturing her on how she is part of the "Me" generation if she chooses to keep her child is abusive.

I should say I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I'm not. I have a huge problem with men lecturing women about isues they know nothing about, especially pregnancy.

Emma

Here, Here!!!Well said, Emma!!!