Ordinances of the Gospel

[Finrock]

I have come to believe that the symbolism of the formal ordinances of the gospel should be actualized. Meaning, we should be making real the things being represented by symbol. I believe that the more important meaning of the scripture, "in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest," is us making the formal ordinances realities as manifested in how we live our lives and what we are.

For instance, in baptism we symbolicly are born again. This represents us becoming a new person. As important and as necessary as the ordinance of baptism is, we must also in actuality experience this spiritual rebirth and becoming this new person. We may not actualize what the baptism represents during the baptism, but eventually our goal and our desire should be to experience this spiritual rebirth for real. I believe this spiritual rebirth is a literal event.

The difficulty lies in knowing what the symbolism means and in how it is actualized.

Thoughts or opinions?

Regards,

Finrock

[skalenfehl]

The rebirth is most certainly a literal event! I have experienced it and it felt like singing the song of redeeming love. I never could wrap my brain around that concept until I experienced it.

[Praetorian_Brow]

You are saying that we should have a colour scale for shirts? Something like this?

Black for original thinking.

Brown for mental illness.

Red for sexual sins.

Pink for deviant behaviour.

Blue for people who go to church every Sunday.

White for perfect people.

As a bonus, people who wear scarves could be hiding something.

Too literal I suppose, as I gather that symbolism is only as good as the participants humility.

[Traveler]

In the ordnance of baptism a new birth is symbolized. Birth is symbolic of a beginning of something lasting beyond the initial conditions. Thus I see that what we do in baptism is begin a lasting process. I believe this process to be an eternal or everlasting process. This process is continued through the remembrance of Christa in partaking of bread and wine (water).

I completely agree that the process is not a Sunday or Sabbath thing but something that is actualized in our very being to be a part of us wherever we go and whatever we do.

Great thread - Finrock

The Traveler

[skalenfehl]

The difficulty lies in knowing what the symbolism means and in how it is actualized.

The more you read the Book of Mormon (make a serious study), the more clear the process becomes. It was written for this very purpose.

Alma did a good job of explaining the spiritual rebirth in Zarahemla (Alma 5). The baptism of water is ceremonial. We become washed and clean of our sins. It is when we are born of the Spirit that we are truly reborn (baptism of fire) and sanctified. It is an actual event.

[Finrock]

You are saying that we should have a colour scale for shirts? Something like this?

Black for original thinking.

Brown for mental illness.

Red for sexual sins.

Pink for deviant behaviour.

Blue for people who go to church every Sunday.

White for perfect people.

As a bonus, people who wear scarves could be hiding something.

Too literal I suppose, as I gather that symbolism is only as good as the participants humility.

I don't understand how what you wrote fits in to what I am saying. If you look at pretty much all of the formal ordinances they include symbolism. The symbolism in the ordinances are not frivolous. In the endowment there are many things that we do that are symbolic or representative. Another example: I believe that what the endowment represents symbolically can and in fact ought to be actualized. In other word the symbols in the ordinances represent actual things that we poses or become or make real in our lives by keeping God's commandments.

I hope that makes more sense. Apologies too for any errors. Typing on tablet.

And, good evening. I hope you have had a great sabbath.

Regards,

Finrock

[Matthew0059]

Earthly ordinances point the way towards God. They teach, through physical symbolism and action, the spiritual symbolism and actions required to be spiritually reborn and purified, part the veil, and come into the presence of God. They are, however, useless if they aren't "actualized" (good word!) spiritually.

This must be the reason that the Lord is always so careful about getting the exact wording and symbolism of the key ordinances (baptism/sacrament, giving the gift of the Holy Ghost, the endowment, etc.) correct- because if you change something in the earthly ordinances, the humble followers of Christ will be led into darkness and not into the light; they will be kept back from realizing their full potential, on this earth, as sons and daughters of God.

Changing the ordinances breeds apostasy because it darkens the light of the world and leads the children of men astray. The key teachings that change the world for the better and would allow for Christ to walk among men, if followed, are taken out of the world. When that happens, Satan reigns, for where there is no light and truth, confusion and lies reign supreme.

My $.02. I think this is a great topic worthy of much study and pondering, Finrock. I'm still struggling on trying to actualize the covenants and ordinances in my life- it's becoming my all-consuming goal. I hope that we both are successful.

God bless!

[wompus]

Every Ordinance we perform is very symbolic and was established before the foundations of this earth was laid.... Jesus didn't create these ordinances on the fly.... in fact, we'll will not be able to return back to our fathers presence until we can keep each covenant as well as understanding the purpose of each ordinance.

Remember, what did Abinadi said... the Jews were given so many ordinances and performances to keep them in remembrance of the savior, but it was in their forgetting why and what those ordinances were given for, that is why when their master came to them in the flesh, many of them could not recognize Him because the ordinances were dead to them, and because merely a tradition. Even to this day, many Jews still preform these traditions.... not knowing the full reason (but I might add with more zeal than many LDS people keep their covenants.

Is that any different with Latter-Day Saints? Do we go about our lives, not remembering our covenants. If we were to 'bump' into the savior would we have the Spirit with us enough to recognize him.

Yes, in the ordinances and covenants the power of God is made manifest, that was designated in the pre-mortal life....... me must be covenant keeping people, for that is the way Jesus Christ established his gospel before the world began. Other religions have no understanding of this, which is why the Book of Mormon teaches against other religions in that they have changed the ordinances. They teach that a belief in Christ is enough..... but where in the scriptures is that taught? Did Adam teach that, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Isaiah..... what about Jesus Christ?

Keep up your study in learning the symbolism of the ordinances... they are powerful symbols... and then make sure that you keep those covenants..... understanding alone will help, but obedience and love for God are even greater! One does not need to know everything to love God, to seek him out, and obey his Gospel.

Edited May 27, 2013 by wompus
proof reading

[ElectofGod]

What I find most often is things that are literal are too often taken spiritually (as symbolic) and things that are taken literal are often symbolic....

I say this to illustrate what you were saying... We usually have a first perception of things... Than we forget that most things actually have a literal AND a symbolic meaning. Both are important. The actualized (literal) component of the endowment is to walk back into the presence of God. Each layer (element on our path, baptism by water, baptism by fire, etc) symbolic of the walk literally and symbolically taken... Literally baptism represents being born again. Symboliclly it represents being born by the spirit again as others have stated. BUT the literal is just as real, we are born again at birth into this world. We were born "into spiritual bodies", than "tabernacles", "Resurrection", etc...