I Don't Envy Bishoprics. Or Gospel Doctrine Teachers.

[MorningStar]

It appears our bishopric has a greater presence in Gospel Doctrine lately because of a person who is no longer "technically" a member and is fond of hijacking the lessons a bit or just really likes the sound of his own voice.

On Facebook, he makes a lot of snarky remarks against the church, showing his true colors and during the rare times I get to go in class, it's really irritating to witness his ramblings, knowing he doesn't sustain our leaders today.

I was telling my husband, "If I were Gospel Doctrine teacher, I'm afraid I would be really rude after a while. 'Anyone? Who wants to answer besides _____?'" Or just flat out pretending I don't see his hand up. Not that he waits to be acknowledged before he speaks.

Bishoprics and Gospel Doctrine teachers, I salute you!

[Anddenex]

Ah yes, a very difficult situation for gospel doctrine teachers and bishoprics.

[MorningStar]

I'm gathering he was exed for preaching false doctrine or something along those lines because he makes comments about the church's view of "so-called intellectuals".

[Anddenex]

The question a bishopric must review, and then discuss it with the stake president, is whether or not this person is interfering with the edification of other members.

If so, then the bishop, under counsel from the stake president, would be able to ask this individual to no longer attend these meetings unless he is willing to adhere to the guidelines the bishop, bishopric, establishes.

If he is exed, then he really shouldn't be participating vocally anyway, unless he has different guidelines given to him.

I don't have any problem with a teacher guiding the affairs of the class by publicly pointing out that the class would benefit from hearing other people's voices.

I had one situation as a gospel doctrine teacher where one individual who would answer questions would take about 5 minutes of class. I would typically let him answer one question and then would wait for others to answer, and through out the class, if more than one person raised their hand I wouldn't call on him knowing another answer would result in 5 more minutes.

But that was just me.

[MorningStar]

What can you do besides ask a person not to attend? Can you really stop them? Tricky situation. They're not coming out and saying anything anti in class, but superfluous and often pointless. His friend also made it clear that this year's curriculum is "disappointing" on FB.

[Anddenex]

Yes, the bishopric can actually ask, and if not hearkened to, involve legal authorities to assist; however, this isn't without much contemplation and without speaking with the stake president. The stake president, depending on the issue, may seek to involve the area authority.

Unfortunately, these statement reflect them a lot more than the Church curriculum. I find the Church curriculum wonderful.

[Traveler]

What can you do besides ask a person not to attend? Can you really stop them? Tricky situation. They're not coming out and saying anything anti in class, but superfluous and often pointless. His friend also made it clear that this year's curriculum is "disappointing" on FB.

I think that if I was the Gospel Doctrine Teacher or have related stewardship calling to the Gospel Doctrine Class - I would suggest that they, I and anyone interested meet afterwords and have a more in depth discussion that may not be appropriate or interesting for all currently attending the class.

The Traveler

[Praetorian_Brow]

I think its a tad alarming that you associate facebook comments with in class comments, which implies that you take a keen interest in this person, whether its your business or not.

Either way, I personally welcome Gospel Doctrine discussion, off topic or not, as its a welcome change from the teacher stressing out everyone for their irrational need to plow through the manual. Such questions are also a nice break from the typical answers of reading your scriptures, praying, going to church and I am a Daughter of God.

[Guest]

If someone was making comments in class that got my attention in a negative way, I'd probably be curious about how they talk about the church in other places. I don't think that's strange of alarming.

The curriculum is made and carefully considered so that it will be taught. We are there to learn, not to discuss philosophy and opinions. There has been specific instruction to teach only from the manual and scriptures.

The "typical" answers are typical for a reason.

[livy111us]

There is a certain group that promotes a North American BOM geography that has a similar fundamentalist attitude and looks down on "so-called" intellectuals and scholars that disagree with them. Perhaps he took this fundamentalism a bit too far which took him out of the Church. Wouldn't be the first with this group.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Learning is done by action, not goobering in our chairs as we hear the teacher drone as they read the manual. The teacher is a facilitator, not an instructor and believe me, I have sat in enough classes to learn that the most enjoyable classes are the ones where discussion is fostered. Typically that discussion results when someone has the courage to ask a controversial question.

If you want learn more than ABC, we need to ask questions about D to Z.

[Anddenex]

Learning is actually accomplished by both: learning and acting. One does not know what to act upon unless they first learn something. Character, however, is developed by acting upon the principles a person has been taught.

[MorningStar]

I think its a tad alarming that you associate facebook comments with in class comments, which implies that you take a keen interest in this person, whether its your business or not.

Either way, I personally welcome Gospel Doctrine discussion, off topic or not, as its a welcome change from the teacher stressing out everyone for their irrational need to plow through the manual. Such questions are also a nice break from the typical answers of reading your scriptures, praying, going to church and I am a Daughter of God.

We have a mutual friend and they make comments that are hard to miss. It was shocking to see what they say there and how they present themselves in class. Also, they make comments directly to me when I answer a question.

Edited June 25, 2013 by MorningStar

[MorningStar]

Learning is done by action, not goobering in our chairs as we hear the teacher drone as they read the manual. The teacher is a facilitator, not an instructor and believe me, I have sat in enough classes to learn that the most enjoyable classes are the ones where discussion is fostered. Typically that discussion results when someone has the courage to ask a controversial question.

If you want learn more than ABC, we need to ask questions about D to Z.

This person is not starting a conversation. It's more like a lecture. I don't think Gospel Doctrine is supposed to be about controversy, but about teaching Gospel Doctrine.

[MorningStar]

There is a certain group that promotes a North American BOM geography that has a similar fundamentalist attitude and looks down on "so-called" intellectuals and scholars that disagree with them. Perhaps he took this fundamentalism a bit too far which took him out of the Church. Wouldn't be the first with this group.

They haven't mentioned anything about that, but do say that polygamy was never supposed to stop and that sort of thing.

[Leah]

Learning is done by action, not goobering in our chairs as we hear the teacher drone as they read the manual. The teacher is a facilitator, not an instructor and believe me, I have sat in enough classes to learn that the most enjoyable classes are the ones where discussion is fostered. Typically that discussion results when someone has the courage to ask a controversial question.

If you want learn more than ABC, we need to ask questions about D to Z.

Whatever kind of class one participates in, there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to participate. I have no issues with addressing inappropriate class behavior.

While you may "goober" in your chair, that's not a fair or accurate description of most members.

It does not sound at all like discussion is being discouraged in this instance. Just that lines are being drawn, which is reasonable.

Gospel Doctrine class is not about fostering controversy. If a disgruntled former member wants to do that, there are plenty of other places he can indulge his whims to his heart's content. Which it sounds like he does.

[skippy740]

"So... how does that help us understand and live the gospel?"

Something along those lines is what I would say to interrupt him and refocus the class on the 'bottom line'.

[Praetorian_Brow]

We shall disagree on class direction and carry on from there. An illustration of an arrow pointing left, written with "Right" within its boundaries, comes to mind.

I wish for once, someone would have the courage to hold their class outside, but it wouldn't surprise me that 80% of the people would suffer a fit of anxiety, because there was no air conditioning and therefore, not what they expect.

[MorningStar]

My father-in-law used to be bishop and he had to do some very uncomfortable things like tap someone on the shoulder and have them sit down when they spoke for way too long during testimony meeting. I would hate to be in that position! You don't want to drive anyone away, but then you want to make sure things go the way they are supposed to for the sake of everyone else.

[Guest]

I wish for once people would think about how they can positively contribute instead of finding all the ways they can to be dissatisfied, and suffering a fit because people or meetings won't meet their every want.

[MorningStar]

We shall disagree on class direction and carry on from there. An illustration of an arrow pointing left, written with "Right" within its boundaries, comes to mind.

I wish for once, someone would have the courage to hold their class outside, but it wouldn't surprise me that 80% of the people would suffer a fit of anxiety, because there was no air conditioning and therefore, not what they expect.

Why would it take courage to hold a class outside?

[MorningStar]

I wish for once people would think about how they can positively contribute instead of finding all the ways they can to be dissatisfied, and suffering a fit because people or meetings won't meet their every want.

Yes, it would be nice if everyone participated in the lessons instead of pushing their personal agendas. Frustrating.

Edited June 25, 2013 by MorningStar

[Praetorian_Brow]

I wish for once people would think about how they can positively contribute instead of finding all the ways they can to be dissatisfied, and suffering a fit because people or meetings won't meet their every want.

I am not even sure how I can respond to that, given that was my point. Too often do we expect things they way they are, rather than hoping for the unexpected. Regardless whether or not we agree on the aims of a productive class, at least we both recognize that expectations are often the handicap to learning.

I do find it sad that regardless of whether or not the question is appropriate, many judge the inquirer's faith, based on their disrupted expectations, rather than noting their presence in a faith based environment. I do grant that some questions are disruptive, but on the other hand, I shudder when the teacher is determined to read the manual and to complete the class as expected.

[MorningStar]

I would enjoy teaching Gospel Doctrine just because it would put a fire under my bum and make me study, but then I worry about this kind of thing. I just don't know if I could handle that. My first experiences in GD involved the older brothers arguing with each other and it made me extremely uncomfortable. Not edifying at all. Another teacher would lecture the entire time and wanted no class participation.

I love teaching Relief Society though! I only had the chance to sub, but that's one of my dream callings. I love to study the lessons and the sisters are great about sharing without getting too weird. Usually.

[MorningStar]

I am not even sure how I can respond to that, given that was my point. Too often do we expect things they way they are, rather than hoping for the unexpected. Regardless whether or not we agree on the aims of a productive class, at least we both recognize that expectations are often the handicap to learning.

I do find it sad that regardless of whether or not the question is appropriate, many judge the inquirer's faith, based on their disrupted expectations, rather than noting their presence in a faith based environment. I do grant that some questions are disruptive, but on the other hand, I shudder when the teacher is determined to read the manual and to complete the class as expected.

I agree that a teacher can't expect for a lesson to go exactly as planned, but I think it's reasonable to expect that an individual not take up the majority of class time with their comments when other people want to participate too, especially when that person preaches against the church elsewhere.