Make Our Schools Safer

[StrawberryFields]

Thats an emotional idea based on your bias against firearms and those who use them.

I have a gun and carry it. I have never had to fire it at another human being. I am trained to use and carry it and a decent shot too. If a crazy came into a store you were at or your childs school, would you not hope that somebody like me was there?

Also have you not noticed that most shooting sprees are in "gun free zones"? They also result in the most robberies, rapes, and other violent crimes. Like I said before, I understand that you have an irrational fear and bias against firearms but we must face reality and be prepared to defend ourselves and our family.

Gun Free Zones? What isn't a Gun Free Zone? You seem to know a lot, educate me.

I am not against People having concealed weapon permits. I am against allowing students to carry guns in school. It is my opinion that kids (students) act irrationally already and to allow them to carry guns in school just doesn't seem like it is in anyone’s best interest.

If security guards are really untrained maybe that is the first change that needs to take place.

I live in Utah and not far from Trolley Square when a lunatic came into the mall shooting random people a few moths back. I am grateful to the off duty policeman who was there having dinner with his wife. He was a great asset in bring the gunman down. The world is changing and more needs to be done to protect us against crazies. I will again say I just don’t think the protection of our students is in the hands of our students as far as carrying weapons in school.

[JcDean78]

A "gun free zone" is an area designated that no firearms can be unless in the hands of law enforcement. So certain government builds and schools are so called "gun free zones" meaning that nobody is allowed a firearm while in the area. The key is that it is an honor system and the people like the killer last week love "gun free zones" because they know that nobody will be armed.

Security guard training is not going to change. These men and women do not make much money and most of their time they never have to use any force. They check people in and out and kind of watch things but for the most part their job gets routine and they do not face serious threats on a daily basis like a Police officer would. Now there are some serious security companies that hire X special forces guys to be "guards" and those guards are a bit more active and a lot more expensive.

In your reference to the Salt Lake shooting, if that cop had been standing around in uniform then he would have been the very first person shot and chances are never see it coming. But when anyone in the crowd, class, etc can have a firearm then that changes things.

I do not advocate giving kids firearms. We are talking about adults (You must be 21 years of age to own a handgun) and responsible ones at that. For high schools it would be teachers and administrators but for a college it could be just about any senior or teacher or etc who goes through the entire process to obtain that permit (training on use and safty, finger printed, major background check, etc).

[a-train]

Ahh, it just dawned on me that my expressions of students with CCWs may have painted pictures of underage middle schoolers packing. I am talking only of students old enough to legally obtain a CCW Permit. In grade schools, it would be faculty, and anyone else there for obvious and legal reasons that would be of age and could possess a concealed weapon. I am just saying that we should remove the laws preventing law abiding CCW Permit holders from carrying in schools, etc.

But, I wouldn't be apposed to giving a TASER or something similar to a teen-aged daughter.

I also plan to make my daughter an expert with knives on a Kill Bill level.

Gentile heathen boys beware!

-a-train

[shanstress70]

I carry concealed and am proud of it. As a former police officer I never wanted to go in to a law-abiding citizens house without permission so not sure what the paranoia is about the "cops just waiting to bust in but fear your guns". Police officers are law-abiding citizens too.

By virtue of training I would not want to be sitting in a bank, restaurant, college and have an armed idiot willing to shoot and kill unarmed people and not be able to respond.

Ben Raines

AMEN, BEN! My husband just took a concealed carry class and will get his permit soon. I'm glad and feel that our family will be safer bc of it. I had a really scary thing happen to me while I was on a business trip once. If I continued traveling that much, I would've gotten my concealed permit. I was in a VERY close call with some freak who chased me (running as fast as we could) to my hotel room through the plaza. I BARELY got the door closed and locked and called 911. If I had been one second slower, he would've been in my hotel room. I still shudder to think of it.

As for sleeping easily after killing an intruder, Traveler... I'd be able to sleep a whole lot easier after killing someone who was trying to harm my child than I would if my child had been killed by the intruder. You HAVE to protect your family... especially as the man of the house. That's just my old fashioned opinion, I guess.

[StrawberryFields]

Wow Shan, That does sound scary.

Maybe some of my aversion to gun is hearing horror stories of kids who play with them and get hurt or hurt someone else.

[Dr T]

Gentile heathen boys beware!

Are those the only boys that need to beware A-train?

[StrawberryFields]

Those who have a permit. Do you always carry a gun? How do you carry a gun... Like Marshell Dillion?

[JcDean78]

I carry mine almost all the time. Sometimes I get "looks" but oh well. Just shows more people need to be educated on our rights and such. the liberal media (News, TV, Movies, etc) always makes villians out of gun owners. I was watching CSI a while back and they were looking over suspects and one guy had a gun registered to him... everyone freaked and you were supposed to know that was the guy because he owned a hand gun which had be registared legally. The media has been trying to push their anti gun agenda for years and since they are the main source of information for many, it is not wonder so many people are scared to death.

I got a semi personal story. My great aunt lived out in the country all by herself. This was about 35 years ago now. There had been a number of break ins in the county and a few women had even been raped. The man responsible was at large still.

One night late my aunt hears something at her door and could see a figure through the little curtain. She asked who was there and what they wanted but got no reply. The man attempted to get in that door even harder and started to kick it. My aunt being an old country girl had a rifle and shot the man through the door killing him.

After that the break ins stopped. My Aunt was not charged but it took a while for all the legal mumbo jumbo to go away. I am not sure about this part but it was something about where the man was on her property when she shot him that kept her from being prosecuted. Reguardless, she ended up moving in with my other aunt after that as it really shook her up and she ended up living many more years after that.

[StrawberryFields]

I carry mine almost all the time. Sometimes I get "looks" but oh well. Just shows more people need to be educated on our rights and such. the liberal media (News, TV, Movies, etc) always makes villians out of gun owners. I was watching CSI a while back and they were looking over suspects and one guy had a gun registered to him... everyone freaked and you were supposed to know that was the guy because he owned a hand gun which had be registared legally. The media has been trying to push their anti gun agenda for years and since they are the main source of information for many, it is not wonder so many people are scared to death.

I got a semi personal story. My great aunt lived out in the country all by herself. This was about 35 years ago now. There had been a number of break ins in the county and a few women had even been raped. The man responsible was at large still.

One night late my aunt hears something at her door and could see a figure through the little curtain. She asked who was there and what they wanted but got no reply. The man attempted to get in that door even harder and started to kick it. My aunt being an old country girl had a rifle and shot the man through the door killing him.

After that the break ins stopped. My Aunt was not charged but it took a while for all the legal mumbo jumbo to go away. I am not sure about this part but it was something about where the man was on her property when she shot him that kept her from being prosecuted. Reguardless, she ended up moving in with my other aunt after that as it really shook her up and she ended up living many more years after that.

Nice story JcDean.

BTW, Do you carry your gun in a holster?

Last week a woman in my ward called. She had heard that people were going around acting as if they were selling magazines. When you opened the door they could push past you and take what they wanted.

I have decided that instead of opening the door I just might show them my gun. Seriously, I am tired of solicitations. I have told the members in my family if we are not expecting someone, or we don't know them we don't need to answer the door.

The last guy who came to the door was selling security systems. He told me they were free and all I needed to do was sign up for the service. I didn't much like him coming to my door talking to me about security. When I told him I would think about it he said it was only good today. I told him ok Good Bye. Really gave me the creeps. Next time if this happens should I tell him that we are protected by Smith and Wesson?

[JcDean78]

I never open the door unless I know who it is. I will go to the window and talk to them if need be otherwise nobody has busniness knocking on my door. Its better to avoid the conflict if you can since you just never know. I guess if everyone does this then the missionaries will have a harder time but I am sure the Lord will direct them just the same.

Speaking of salesmen at the door... ever see the movie Second Hand Lions? Great movie! Awesome sceen where the 2 older me sit on the front porch and wait for the sales men to come (like they do every day). Once they do they start to shoot their shotguns in the air and scare them away. They got a big kick out of watching those guys run away.

I do have a holster which works nice under my jacket in the winter time. During the summer I do not want the extra weight to be honest and have no way to hide it on me so I tend to either keep it in my desk at work and then in my truck when driving around.

[Latter Days Guy]

Maybe if you banned firearms sales to civilians there wouldn't be so many shootings in schools etc. If they don't have access to the guns then they cannot shoot people with them, makes sence to me.

[StrawberryFields]

Maybe if you banned firearms sales to civilians there wouldn't be so many shootings in schools etc. If they don't have access to the guns then they cannot shoot people with them, makes sence to me.

My first thought to this was I like it. My next thought is what about keeping ourselves safe from wild animals? We have a cabin deep into the wilderness, I haven't been there for awhile but there are bears which have been a problem in Yellowstone and they have relocated them near our property. Years ago before you needed a gun permit, we rode our snowmobiles into the cabin. I wasn't about to go without a gun. The summer before my aunt and uncle had a bear get into the garbage and then onto their porch. This bear stood up and rubbed his greasy nose unto their window which they were on the other side of holding very still. I happened to be at our cabin next door that weekend and we code named that bear STEW because that is what he would have become should he ever return.

[JcDean78]

Maybe if you banned firearms sales to civilians there wouldn't be so many shootings in schools etc. If they don't have access to the guns then they cannot shoot people with them, makes sence to me.

Like that works in the UK where you have no border with anyone really? It does not work there and it would not work here. Or how about Jamacia? Used to be such a lovely place... then they outlawed guns and guess what... crime when through the roof and now the cops are out gunned and the criminals control the place.

Outlaw guns and only outlaws have them. Like making a "gun free zone" but Mr. Cho did not seem to follow that law either. Criminals do NOT follow the law... thats why we call them criminals.

Lets also not forget for one split second that owning a firearm is a RIGHT as a free person.

[Dr T]

Criminals do NOT follow the law... thats why we call them criminals.

Now that's some good stuff right there.

[sixpacktr]

Sorry, GB, but I have to disagree with you on that. There is example after example of people doing the "feel good" thing and making it harder for law abiding citizens to get weapons and then the criminals get them. Do we really think that if the gun sales were restricted or outlawed that it would solve the problem? No way. If the criminals KNOW that I don't have a weapon, then nothing will stop them. If they wonder, though...

Peace thru strength. Or uncertainty. Or deception. Any will work for me...

[Fiannan]

You know, let's put this in perspective. About 90 college students per year are murdered in the USA. That's pretty scary -- I mean 70 toddlers die from drowning in mop buckets per year.

Then again, 3,200 students died last year from alcohol poisoning.

[Outshined]

Maybe if you banned firearms sales to civilians there wouldn't be so many shootings in schools etc. If they don't have access to the guns then they cannot shoot people with them, makes sence to me.

It hasn't worked with cocaine and heroin or other drugs. They are completely banned here, and yet they are everywhere...

[shanstress70]

Wow Shan, That does sound scary.

Maybe some of my aversion to gun is hearing horror stories of kids who play with them and get hurt or hurt someone else.

That is a concern bc some people are just plain dumb. However, if people have common sense, they lock up their guns and make it impossible for children to get to them.

JCDean, that is awesome about your grandmother. Good for her!

SF, I NEVER answer the door if I don't know who it is. I haven't really even thought about someone pushing it open and coming in, but I just don't like being bothered. There is absolutely zero chance that I will buy something from a door to door salesperson, so what's the point? Kids selling stuff is a different story... I'm a sucker!

[Fiannan]

Lock up alcohol if you don't want college kids dying so much.

As for gun safety, Utah has the lowest rate of accidental deaths for children in the country.

[StrawberryFields]

I am happy to hear that their are other who do not answer the door either. I thought I was being rude by not answering the door. B)

[shanstress70]

I am happy to hear that their are other who do not answer the door either. I thought I was being rude by not answering the door. B)

I don't feel rude at all by not answering the door. My home is my refuge.

[Latter Days Guy]

<div class='quotemain'>

Maybe if you banned firearms sales to civilians there wouldn't be so many shootings in schools etc. If they don't have access to the guns then they cannot shoot people with them, makes sence to me.

Like that works in the UK where you have no border with anyone really? It does not work there and it would not work here. Or how about Jamacia? Used to be such a lovely place... then they outlawed guns and guess what... crime when through the roof and now the cops are out gunned and the criminals control the place.

Outlaw guns and only outlaws have them. Like making a "gun free zone" but Mr. Cho did not seem to follow that law either. Criminals do NOT follow the law... thats why we call them criminals.

Lets also not forget for one split second that owning a firearm is a RIGHT as a free person.

Yes we have gun crime in the UK, we had 50 deaths in 2005/6 that were attributed to gun crime. How many were there in the USA for that time period?

[Outshined]

If you're happy being disarmed that's great, but it won't happen here. Too many people appreciate their freedom.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Maybe if you banned firearms sales to civilians there wouldn't be so many shootings in schools etc. If they don't have access to the guns then they cannot shoot people with them, makes sence to me.

Like that works in the UK where you have no border with anyone really? It does not work there and it would not work here. Or how about Jamacia? Used to be such a lovely place... then they outlawed guns and guess what... crime when through the roof and now the cops are out gunned and the criminals control the place.

Outlaw guns and only outlaws have them. Like making a "gun free zone" but Mr. Cho did not seem to follow that law either. Criminals do NOT follow the law... thats why we call them criminals.

Lets also not forget for one split second that owning a firearm is a RIGHT as a free person.

Yes we have gun crime in the UK, we had 50 deaths in 2005/6 that were attributed to gun crime. How many were there in the USA for that time period?

I'm just thinking about why that might be. I could be going down the wrong track, but do you guys have problems with poverty in the UK, or are your social programs better than ours? Another thought: do you guys have gangs there? The reason I ask is bc most of the US's gun deaths occur in the inner cities within the impoverished communities where there is prolific substance abuse.

I wonder if there are other reasons for your low death rates by guns, other than the gun ban.

[JcDean78]

A lot of our gun deaths are from suicides. If not a gun, they would jump off something, hang, OD, or find another way to die.

I also do not buy into your "50" number at all.