Is This Aproppriate?

[Gwen]

Almom,

Since there is only one YW in your ward going to camp are there other girls in a nearby ward that are going? Could she ride with them? Could the two of you ride up together? How about you and your husband taking her up to camp?

Those are some of the options.

Ben Raines

thank you for the consideration and ideas ben.

i have been pondering this, i'd like to go to the stake with possible solutions to my delemia and receive guidance or permission (for lack of a better word) to follow through with a course of action. i very much try to avoid taking my problems to leadership with no thought as to how to solve the problem. i feel this is what we are tought in our scriptures.

camp is appx 3.5hour drive from our unit. a bit much for someone to just drive for fun. lol the nearest unit is an hour north (which i would have to drive through to get to camp reguardless). i'm hoping, my prefered plan, is to get permission to drive the first hour (she and i) and meet this other ward to travel with them the rest of the way. if that can not be done, though it would be hard on the family, my husband and all our children will make the hour drive together to meet the other ward. my problem with that is the other ward will be leaving around 4 or 5 am (remembering we have to leave an hour before them to be on time), that's fun, to get 4 kids, under 6yrs up ready and in the car for a 2 hour drive (they have to come home again ya know). lol the reason i think driving alone with this yw would be acceptable is that her mother is inactive, she is allowing her to go to camp not because of camp but because i am going with her. if i could not go neither would this girl. we are friends with this family and as such (before i was yw's pres) i have picked this yw up for other things and taken her places (events around town, assistance with watching my children, etc). because of the social family relationship we have i feel it is safe and acceptable to be alone with her for the time required to not create undue burdon upon my family. maybe it's all rationalizing, i'll be talking to the stake yw's pres today. i soon shall know.

i am courious though, in other's opinions, am i rationalizing or do i have a legitamate thought process here?

[sixpacktr]

I figured that this kid (who else would it be?) had some axe to grind because he wasn't allowed to be alone with his GF. I mean, come on, to question why a Bishop can be alone in his office, with PH there in the building, was okay, but he wasn't? Just trying to be contentious. Or worried that his GF may say something he doesn't like.

Dealt with several YM while I was YM President that would bring up bogus arguments like this. They aren't looking for an answer, just being smart alecks.

Carguy12, get serious.

[Aphrodite]

Almom, Are you saying the church frowns upon a woman and a young woman being in the car together???

[Gwen]

i was instructed that one adult and one youth or primary child reguardless of gender were not to be in a room or car alone together. when i have one yw on sunday (since i have no counselors) i teach with the door open, that way all who pass by can see what is going on inside. because our branch isn't large enough to have that many adults (2 or more to a room with children/youth) this is how i was instructed to accomidate the policy. the only time i know of when this is not followed is when the youth and the leader happen to be parent and child, then it's ok. there was a scout campout recently in which the letter about it from the stake had a reminder about travel to the camp not consisting of one leader and one boy in a car unless related. as i sated before the stake instructed us while at camp we were not to allow ourselves to be alone in the cabains or anywhere else with only one girl (which again will be hard for me but i should do my best to follow). as far as i know it has always been church policy that no youth and leaders share sleeping locations (ie tent when camping, room at youth conference) unless related.

i agree with the policy it just becomes very difficult when you have so few ppl. it is hard to avoid one on one contact with eachother. i try to do my best to follow the policies and assume i'm not an exception to the rule, which would be much easier road to take, but any excuses are simply rationalizing and i haven't looked hard enough for the answer. though i don't always do that. lol being the exception is so much easier and very simple to rationalize in such a small unit. but i try to do my best.

[Dror]

i was instructed that one adult and one youth or primary child reguardless of gender were not to be in a room or car alone together. when i have one yw on sunday (since i have no counselors) i teach with the door open, that way all who pass by can see what is going on inside. because our branch isn't large enough to have that many adults (2 or more to a room with children/youth) this is how i was instructed to accomidate the policy. the only time i know of when this is not followed is when the youth and the leader happen to be parent and child, then it's ok. there was a scout campout recently in which the letter about it from the stake had a reminder about travel to the camp not consisting of one leader and one boy in a car unless related. as i sated before the stake instructed us while at camp we were not to allow ourselves to be alone in the cabains or anywhere else with only one girl (which again will be hard for me but i should do my best to follow). as far as i know it has always been church policy that no youth and leaders share sleeping locations (ie tent when camping, room at youth conference) unless related.

i agree with the policy it just becomes very difficult when you have so few ppl. it is hard to avoid one on one contact with eachother. i try to do my best to follow the policies and assume i'm not an exception to the rule, which would be much easier road to take, but any excuses are simply rationalizing and i haven't looked hard enough for the answer. though i don't always do that. lol being the exception is so much easier and very simple to rationalize in such a small unit. but i try to do my best.

Ahhh...

Thanks for the clarification, ALmom! I didn't realize he was a youth. (It didn't even occur to me--shows how long ago it's been for me! *ugh*)

In THAT case, it's true that it is probably unwise to spend time alone with one's girlfriend. As far as the bishop interviewing a youth of the opposite sex goes, it's almost like a father interviewing a daughter, though even that is not always a given these days. Plus, youths do tend to have the proverbial "raging hormones" that they haven't necessarily gotten used to dealing with. In any case, it's not as though the bishop is "hanging out" with the girl--just interviewing her for a few minutes.

Dror

[JcDean78]

I would agree with the glass window on the office door. I think that is a reasonable thing to do.

[sixpacktr]

I would agree with the glass window on the office door. I think that is a reasonable thing to do.

JC,

Can't do it. Although everyone in the vicinity knows who was in the Bishop's office when they come out (kind of hard to hide), they have no clue why they were in there. Was it a calling? Was it a confession? Were they making arrangments for their families to do a camp out? No telling.

If, however, you put a window in his office, now people can see in and tell if that person is crying, if there is a court going on, whatever. The sense of privacy in confessing to the Lord thru the Bishop is lost because others can see in.

We have to remember that a youth is poking at this in a temper tantrum. To have him insinuate that his Bishop is on the same level as he is is ridiculous in the extreme.

[carguy12]

"We have to remember that a youth is poking at this in a temper tantrum. To have him insinuate that his Bishop is on the same level as he is is ridiculous in the extreme."

hahahaha a temper tantrum?..........I haven't said anything to a lot of people on here who have been assuming things about me in this topic but dude, I just had to say something to you.

I truely believe I'm bringing up a good topic here and to say I'm having a tantrum is ridiculous. Sounds more to me like YOU are having a tantrum about what I'm saying.

I'm not insinuating hes on the same level as me.........I'm saying he shouldnt be put in a room alone with a 16 year old girl without someone else being around.

[Aphrodite]

As far as the bishop interviewing a youth of the opposite sex goes, it's almost like a father interviewing a daughter, though even that is not always a given these days. Plus, youths do tend to have the proverbial "raging hormones" that they haven't necessarily gotten used to dealing with. In any case, it's not as though the bishop is "hanging out" with the girl--just interviewing her for a few minutes.

How come its ok for a bishop to interview/be alone with a girl, but its not ok for two male elders to be alone with a woman-they are only 'teaching' her in any case. You could use the same argument for that but thats not allowed. Its far more dodgy for young woman/older man alone, than two guys with a woman. Unless they all agree to a threesome simultaneously I fail to see how that could be dangerous.

As far as ALmom and being alone with a young woman for heaven's sake-what do they think could happen? Are they going to have a lesbisan kiss in the back seat on the way??!! Is ALmom going to attack her???

I also spend a lot of time with my sister in law. We are very close and were good friends before my wife and I started to even date. After I had been married for several years, a guy in the bishopric came to me and said that i need to stop being alone with my sister in law so much. (Thats almost impossible because she lives with us).

I told him that sometimes people like to see in others their own faults because they know what THEY would be tempted with in that situation. The subject has never come up again.

lol, its true. What next, being told I'm not allowed to be alone with my brother??? I can see where carguy is coming from, as a new member and a teenager it must look like double standards, which I think it is. You are always perceived as having 'uncontollable emotions' as a teenager and must be constantly thinking about sex, and, as soon as you're alone, well, we're gonna do it. Id hate to have that judemental label pasted on me because I as a teenager was totally in control of my emotions thankyou very much. I was also alone with my husband lots. How else can you build a relationship??

Sounds like a control issue to me

Precisely!!

[sixpacktr]

carguy,

Yes, a temper tantrum. The very fact that you think that the Bishop needs a chaperone tells me that you have issues with someone knowing something you don't. And then, instead of pointing out that you are uncomfortable with your girlfriend sharing things with the Bishop in confidence that perhaps she wouldn't tell you?? is ridiculous.

You either trust your Bishop or you don't. You're not even arguing the point that has you bothered, but instead casting doubt on your Bishop's ability to keep his hands off of your girlfriend.

Carguy. Grow up.

P.S. You don't know me well enough to refer to me as "dude".

[Aphrodite]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

Can't do it. Although everyone in the vicinity knows who was in the Bishop's office when they come out (kind of hard to hide), they have no clue why they were in there. Was it a calling? Was it a confession? Were they making arrangments for their families to do a camp out? No telling.

If, however, you put a window in his office, now people can see in and tell if that person is crying, if there is a court going on, whatever. The sense of privacy in confessing to the Lord thru the Bishop is lost because others can see in.

We have windows in the bishops door in every chapel in our stake. Theres no problem.

We have to remember that a youth is poking at this in a temper tantrum. To have him insinuate that his Bishop is on the same level as he is is ridiculous in the extreme.

JcDean78 Posted Today, 08:50 AM

I would agree with the glass window on the office door. I think that is a reasonable thing to do

So, in other words because he is a youth he must be immature, and not in control of himself, and having a 'tantrum' and because the bishop is older he therefore must be more mature and incapable of making mistakes.

sixpacktr, get real.

[sixpacktr]

So, in other words because he is a youth he must be immature, and not in control of himself, and having a 'tantrum' and because the bishop is older he therefore must be more mature and incapable of making mistakes.

sixpacktr, get real.

No, Aphrodite, come out of your shell for just a minute and see the big picture. Of course he is immature. He is a YM questioning whether or not his Bishop can meet with his GF alone. Not in the parking lot. Not at some movie. More than likely at the chapel in the Bishop's office.

The very fact, IMHO, that he is questioning this points out that he doesn't trust his Bishop. His chosen leader, and his PH President (as the President of the Priest's Quorum). So this has nothing to do with his false argument. It has everything to do with him questioning his Bishop's authority and his ability to act as a Common Judge in Israel over that congregation. And if you don't have that testimony, then you might as well question whether Pres Hinckley is called of God (AofF5), and while you're at it, Joseph Smith.

I see a lot of complaining about Bishop's in this forum. Man, you all either have the worst men ever to serve as Bishop, or your pride has been hurt for some reason by him. Get over it. Your Bishop is your leader on the Ward level, and the one with whom you have the most contact, and if you can't support him, you should turn in your Temple Recommends. There is a question about that, you know. It doesn't just cover Pres Hinckley and the others that are too far away to offend you.

[Dror]

How come its ok for a bishop to interview/be alone with a girl, but its not ok for two male elders to be alone with a woman-they are only 'teaching' her in any case. You could use the same argument for that but thats not allowed. Its far more dodgy for young woman/older man alone, than two guys with a woman. Unless they all agree to a threesome simultaneously I fail to see how that could be dangerous.

First, there is the age difference, father/daughter vs. boyfriend/girlfriend ages. As I did mention, though, even that age difference doesn't necessarily mean everything's kosher.

Second, during my mission, my companion and I taught single women all the time--we had no choice, being in a small town with no sister missionaries and members who were not able to tract or teach with us all day.

As far as ALmom and being alone with a young woman for heaven's sake-what do they think could happen? Are they going to have a lesbisan kiss in the back seat on the way??!! Is ALmom going to attack her???

In these days of gay pride, you never know...

As far as I'm concerned, I think I'm less likely now to mess around with a 16-year-old girl than I was when I was 16. It seems reasonable to expect a bishop would be similar. A Church leader could mess up, of course, but statistically speaking a 16-year-old boy would probably get the girl. Not to mention the bishop already has a wife to go home to.

Dror

[Gwen]

wow, i missed a lot. lol i did hear back from the stake, they said it was fine for me to drive up with the yw, all the way to camp if necessary, but that it could be fun for the yw to get to know some of the other girls before camp so riding with the other ward is a good idea. they did ask that i make sure the parents knew that no others were going as an fyi to the situation. i think this is a very fair resolution to the circumstances.

as far as my opinion on the other stuff. nothing is safe these days. one must protect themselves and their children from accusation. accusations can tear lives apart almost as bad as the real thing, i've seen it done. i think windows in all the classrooms is a good idea. i know many units already have peepholes in the door of the nusery so the parents can check on their kids without disturbing class. i don't think the bishop or the clerks office door necessarily need a window. there are interviews and such that i don't think need an audiance, when a bishop has a lot of interviews to do there are always ppl standing outside waiting. i think that is enough, having someone outside. if there is a problem someone would know or could be told quickly. the church has always taken precautions in this area, ie nursery leaders are not to change diapers and such. it's just good since. unfortunatly we live in a day when good since means more precautions than in the past.

[carguy12]

"P.S. You don't know me well enough to refer to me as "dude"."

Oh and you know me well enough to criticize why im asking this stuff? you have no idea what could be going on with me and my girlfriend.

dude............you are completely full of it.

[CrimsonKairos]

Unless there are rumors of this bishop being inappropriate with girls, carguy, I'd say just trust that it's cool.

He is older, and statistically, more in control of his hormones (or experiencing less hormones, lol).

He is the priesthood leader, and we either sustain him or have concrete evidence that he's unfit for his calling.

If you and your girlfriend made a mistake together, and you're worried about her saying stuff to the bishop about you, that's another matter entirely.

If you're just frustrated that you can't spend more time alone with someone you really care about, all I can say is it stinks but patience pays off and precautions prevent transgression.

Other than that, it's no new thing carguy...bishops have been having interviews with women alone since day one of the Church, pretty much, and its necessary even if it seems unfair to you. Hang in there.

[carguy12]

Ok all I'm going to say to those of you who decided to make assumptions about this, is that you dont know the real reason I'm asking and to basically say I'm immature and I'm jealous of my bishop getting to be alone with my girlfriend is crazy.

I get alone time her, so being jealous of him has nothing to do with it. I have my reasons to ask this and honestly these reasons are none of any of your business, so now at least you know that i dont have jealousy issues with my bishop.

[Outshined]

Yeah, you'll ask about the propriety of your girlfriend talking to the Bishop , but your reasons are none of anyone's business. Just take CK's advice and move on...

Unless there are rumors of this bishop being inappropriate with girls, carguy, I'd say just trust that it's cool.

He is older, and statistically, more in control of his hormones (or experiencing less hormones, lol).

He is the priesthood leader, and we either sustain him or have concrete evidence that he's unfit for his calling.

Other than that, it's no new thing carguy...bishops have been having interviews with women alone since day one of the Church, pretty much, and its necessary even if it seems unfair to you. Hang in there.

[JcDean78]

At first I felt this guy had a point, but he has really shown with each post I can not support any part of his question and it does come off with a poor attitude and as a tantrum.

[Dr T]

I have my reasons to ask this and honestly these reasons are none of any of your business,...

See the irony in that?

[StrawberryFields]

Dr T LOL

[Fiannan]

There are variables here that I do not think carguy 12 has supplied in this thread. First, what is the situation with the bishop? Is he kinda a flirt who has bulging muscles and kinda looks like the new James Bond? In that case maybe an insecure teen male (no accusations, just that many teen males are very insecure) has reasons to emotionally be threatened. As for age, I would really doubt a bishop would be interested in someone who is 16. Now if this were a young adult ward situation with college-age people that could be different but for the life of me I cannot see why someone in the leadership role of a bishop would throw it all away for some youngster. Could happen but not likely.

I really think people can get pretty darn paranoid about being alone witht he opposite sex. I just spent a week in Russia on a work assignment with a female collegue almost 20 years younger than me. And no, not a thing went on even though a few months ago someone teased me saying if anyone were ment to have an affair with each other it would be us. I just know that I have a wife and children at home and I am no more likely to hop into bed with a female collegue than a male one. Also, I do kinda like the opportunity to go to the temple once in a while or bless my children so that far outweighs any biology thing.

I am not saying that people whould spend tons of time alone with the opposite sex (or if you are from northern Europe even witht he same sex;) )but there is no reason to go all paranoid over it.

[carguy12]

Ok this is going to be the final post I make in this thread because I feel as though this has now become an attack on me for some reason. It has become something that I didn't want and in future threads I will put more thought into what I will say because people obviously need to know the full story.I left out some very important facts, which are my reasons for why I started this thread, and because of this, I will believe those to be the reasons for all of your false assumptions. It also appeared that I made some of you adults mad, so I'll apologize for that. Thank you to the people that actually did help me out with my question, I really appreciate it.

[sixpacktr]

Oh and you know me well enough to criticize why im asking this stuff? you have no idea what could be going on with me and my girlfriend.

And there is your answer...

[Aphrodite]

carguy, I think you sound like a mature individual with your head screwed on to be asking questions you genuinely want to know the answers to. Never at any point did I think you sounded like an immature teen or that you were having a 'tantrum'. I think they have read you wrong. The reason people are saying those things about you is because they cant think of a decent enough explanation for your question. :)