marriage is...

[ron103]

a covenant word which means you are giving 100 percent of yourself good and bad to another soul and acknowledging the same in return...and if you are a person who, from your past experiences, understands the value in personal growth, specifically growth for good works either internal or external, lets say, which is the only direction i am referring to, ever; then, but most likely before you got married, you had seen good internal qualities from your spouse and is the reason you are attracted to them...what i am referring to is just how scripturally important the giving and taking of a spouses maturities (talents) are in our personal growth to worthiness to be in His Family eternally...

When this discipline is engrained, you can then take this to the level of luke 3:4-6 and proverbs 2:1-5 but without as serious of a covenant with your Creator as initially your spouse, things will not unfold as they scripturally should...

[Lakumi]

how does it change when there's no religious elements in it?

[Quin]

If it was, it would be.

If it were, it could be.

But as it isn't, it's quaint.

For as it is, it ain't.

- Alice in Wonderland, musical "Twas Brillag Rag"

[Guest]

a covenant word which means you are giving 100 percent of yourself good and bad to another soul and acknowledging the same in return...and if you are a person who, from your past experiences, understands the value in personal growth, specifically growth for good works either internal or external, lets say, which is the only direction i am referring to, ever; then, but most likely before you got married, you had seen good internal qualities from your spouse and is the reason you are attracted to them...what i am referring to is just how scripturally important the giving and taking of a spouses maturities (talents) are in our personal growth to worthiness to be in His Family eternally...

When this discipline is engrained, you can then take this to the level of luke 3:4-6 and proverbs 2:1-5 but without as serious of a covenant with your Creator as initially your spouse, things will not unfold as they scripturally should...

how does it change when there's no religious elements in it?

Marriage is Becoming One with God.

It is not merely growth together. It is growth towards a single path. The marital covenant is a promise for the husband to spend eternity working in humble service towards bringing himself and his wife to the path of God and for the wife to spend eternity working in humble service towards bringing herself and her husband to the path of God.

Now, how does this change when there's no religious elements in it? Well, you won't have a path. So, becoming One is taking a shot in the dark.

For example:

A husband wants to make his wife a doormat. For marital unity, the wife lays down and becomes his doormat. They are peaceful and united in this act of doormat-cy. So you might think - yes, that's a successful marriage.

But it is not.

Being one with God means that doormat-cy is far from marital unity because it is far from God. Therefore, to be One, the husband must align himself with God and do everything in his power to align his wife with God too - and so goes for the wife as well. Then, and only then, will they truly be One.

Edited February 11, 2014 by anatess

[ron103]

wow, did i hit a button...

Anatess, you jus repeated what i said...

My wife is no doormat, i assure you...

You have to want to pursue a relationship...understand?

[Lakumi]

Marriage is Becoming One with God.

It is not merely growth together. It is growth towards a single path. The marital covenant is a promise for the husband to spend eternity working in humble service towards bringing himself and his wife to the path of God and for the wife to spend eternity working in humble service towards bringing herself and her husband to the path of God.

Now, how does this change when there's no religious elements in it? Well, you won't have a path. So, becoming One is taking a shot in the dark.

So, do you think there's no point for non religious people to get married then?

[prisonchaplain]

Lakumi, it's ironic you mentioned the non-religious not getting married. More and more, I am hearing people--many of them non-religious--suggesting that very thing. They say government should not be in the business of marriage. Governments can recognize, legalize, and contractualize civil unions. However, they should not have a part in sacraments, ordinances, or rites of religious bodies. Leave the marriages to the houses of worship is what they are suggesting. Many religious people are coming to agree--mostly to protect the sacrament of marriage from being politicized by advocacy groups.

[Lakumi]

Lakumi, it's ironic you mentioned the non-religious not getting married. More and more, I am hearing people--many of them non-religious--suggesting that very thing. They say government should not be in the business of marriage. Governments can recognize, legalize, and contractualize civil unions. However, they should not have a part in sacraments, ordinances, or rites of religious bodies. Leave the marriages to the houses of worship is what they are suggesting. Many religious people are coming to agree--mostly to protect the sacrament of marriage from being politicized by advocacy groups.

I think marriage should be split, one for the government side of things and one for the religious side of things

me signing a document saying I am married and paying someone some money is far different then if I was married in a church.

But would religious marriage be reconized by government? Or would they have to go threw the legality of it?

Also seems a lot of religious people dislike the word marriage being used to discribe not only same sex marriages but heterosexual non religious marriages, since, to them, it has really nothing to do with its "intention" (as said, a covenent with God).

No God in a marriage with two athiests.

[ron103]

a house divided people...

Either treat and learn from the word in its divine context or talk about something else...because thats what it turns into, just talk and no walk...

[ron103]

"no God in a marriage with two atheists..."

He created us in His image, male and female He created them...

Your not understanding what we have inherantly that is from Him...

The correct statement is there is little or no growth with two atheists...

[Lakumi]

"no God in a marriage with two atheists..."

He created us in His image, male and female He created them...

Your not understanding what we have inherantly that is from Him...

The correct statement is there is little or no growth with two atheists...

well they get married anyways, and it works sometimes (like with religious people) so... I assume they make it work somehow

I understand that's what you (and many others) believe.

What works for you, doesn't work for everyone.

Because I am not a traditional Christian or what have you, in your logic, marriage is pointless for me?

Please elaborate

[prisonchaplain]

Ron highlights what bothers me about ending "civil marriage." Yes, marriage is instituted by God. Yet, its an institution that has historically brought blessing to many non-religious people and societies. God meant it for everyone. Those verses from Genesis 2 read almost as automatic as "The sun rises in the west." A man and a woman leave their mother and father and cling together, and the two become one flesh.

Civil marriage might not meet the fullness of what God offers us, but it is still a far superior proposition than any civil union.

[Lakumi]

Ron highlights what bothers me about ending "civil marriage." Yes, marriage is instituted by God. Yet, its an institution that has historically brought blessing to many non-religious people and societies. God meant it for everyone. Those verses from Genesis 2 read almost as automatic as "The sun rises in the west." A man and a woman leave their mother and father and cling together, and the two become one flesh.

Civil marriage might not meet the fullness of what God offers us, but it is still a far superior proposition than any civil union.

I understand, but with the rise of non believers, the times have to change along with it, times always change

We evolve our beliefs and ideals, and marriage is evolving beyond its religious origins

[Leah]

I understand, but with the rise of non believers, the times have to change along with it, times always change

We evolve our beliefs and ideals, and marriage is evolving beyond its religious origins

I disagree. Just because society- or some segment of it - changes, does not automatically mean that everything in that society must change. There are eternal truths. There are things that remain true regardless of religious belief. If this were not true, we might as well throw out all laws.

You choose not to believe in God. You think marriage is a horrible thing. Why should we change marriage be cause there are those who abhor the idea? No one is forcing you to marry.

Marriage was created by God. It doesn't need to "evolve" just because there are those who to act outside of God's plan.

If you don't want to get married, then don't. But don't expect God to "evolve" marriage into anything other than what He created. And don't expect others to change/abandon marriage just because you want something different.

[prisonchaplain]

I understand, but with the rise of non believers, the times have to change along with it, times always change

We evolve our beliefs and ideals, and marriage is evolving beyond its religious origins

I'm an optimist sort. Society's beliefs about marriage will continue to evolve and change until they end up back where I am already at. (Plan B: I believe in the pre-Tribulation Rapture)

[Lakumi]

I disagree. Just because society- or some segment of it - changes, does not automatically mean that everything in that society must change. There are eternal truths. There are things that remain true regardless of religious belief. If this were not true, we might as well throw out all laws.

You choose not to believe in God. You think marriage is a horrible thing. Why should we change marriage be cause there are those who abhor the idea? No one is forcing you to marry.

Marriage was created by God. It doesn't need to "evolve" just because there are those who to act outside of God's plan.

If you don't want to get married, then don't. But don't expect God to "evolve" marriage into anything other than what He created. And don't expect others to change/abandon marriage just because you want something different.

I never said anything about myself wanting or not wanting to get married

I never said I didn't believe in God (I do) and I only say marrage is bad for myself, for a variety of reasons (I also dislike going to weddings but more because people have lousy tastes in food and music and that's neither there nor here).

All I said was people's beliefs change with the times (eg same sex marriage), that times always change and it seems marriage is changing from what it was.

Nothing what I feel personally about the matter, I wasn't even using myself as an example.

I have no idea where you got that, or if you just read what you felt like reading and responded accordingly.

It was a stimulating debate up to this point

[Lakumi]

I'm an optimist sort. Society's beliefs about marriage will continue to evolve and change until they end up back where I am already at. (Plan B: I believe in the pre-Tribulation Rapture)

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that

[prisonchaplain]

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is an event just prior to the final 7 years. We believe God will rapture, or 'take up,' his church--his people. We will enjoy 7 years of feasting, while Earth endures judgment, the Antichrist, and finally the Battle of Armeggedon. So, the bottom line is that if society simply continues to degenerate, and there is nor moral or religious re-set, then I suspect the Rapture and Tribulation will come soon, and I will not be around much longer.

[Lakumi]

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is an event just prior to the final 7 years. We believe God will rapture, or 'take up,' his church--his people. We will enjoy 7 years of feasting, while Earth endures judgment, the Antichrist, and finally the Battle of Armeggedon. So, the bottom line is that if society simply continues to degenerate, and there is nor moral or religious re-set, then I suspect the Rapture and Tribulation will come soon, and I will not be around much longer.

I see...what happens after all that, to earth I mean?

[Blackmarch]

Marriage is a promise to bring together build up a family, and in turn society.

[prisonchaplain]

I see...what happens after all that, to earth I mean?

It's purified and made new.

[Guest]

wow, did i hit a button...

Anatess, you jus repeated what i said...

My wife is no doormat, i assure you...

You have to want to pursue a relationship...understand?

No, I don't understand.

I'm having trouble understanding your English.

I didn't say in my post that your wife is a doormat, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

[Leah]

I never said anything about myself wanting or not wanting to get married

I never said I didn't believe in God (I do) and I only say marrage is bad for myself, for a variety of reasons (I also dislike going to weddings but more because people have lousy tastes in food and music and that's neither there nor here).

All I said was people's beliefs change with the times (eg same sex marriage), that times always change and it seems marriage is changing from what it was.

Nothing what I feel personally about the matter, I wasn't even using myself as an example.

I have no idea where you got that, or if you just read what you felt like reading and responded accordingly.

It was a stimulating debate up to this point

You have made your negative feelngs about marriage clear over a number of threads and posts.

But it wasn't addressed just to you. But you are the one who did post that marraige should "evolve". I gave you reasons it shouldn't. Your negative feelings about marriage, your statement that marriage should "evolve" to keep up with the times...is not reason for God to change his creation of marriage or the ordinance thereof. If you don't like marriage the way that God created it, then don't get married. But don't tell the rest of us that we should "evolve" marriage to fit your negative and erroneous take on God's plan. It's pretty simple. If you don't like God's plan for (eternal) marriage, you are free to follow secular society's version of it. There are plenty to choose from. But no matter how much society tries to change God's plan for their own selfish purposes - God's plan still remains God's plan.

I guess debates are only "stimulating" when all of the other posters agree with you?

[Lakumi]

You have made your negative feelngs about marriage clear over a number of threads and posts.

But it wasn't addressed just to you. But you are the one who did post that marraige should "evolve". I gave you reasons it shouldn't. Your negative feelings about marriage, your statement that marriage should "evolve" to keep up with the times...is not reason for God to change his creation of marriage or the ordinance thereof. If you don't like marriage the way that God created it, then don't get married. But don't tell the rest of us that we should "evolve" marriage to fit your negative and erroneous take on God's plan. It's pretty simple. If you don't like God's plan for (eternal) marriage, you are free to follow secular society's version of it. There are plenty to choose from. But no matter how much society tries to change God's plan for their own selfish purposes - God's plan still remains God's plan.

I guess debates are only "stimulating" when all of the other posters agree with you?

Opinions about things change when the opinions of people change as well. That's all I said, that's all I meant.

I have no idea where you get any of what you are saying. I never said religion should change its stance on marriage-you are just pulling things out of context or out of thin air.

I have said some negativities about marriage (in relation to my own life)

I don't think churches should change what they believe about marriage

And I don't think any other poster here agrees with a great deal of my viewpoints, but I see this back and forth with them as an exchange of ideas and seeing a bit into someone elses world. I enjoy it because, well for the most part, this thread has been a positive exchange.

Infact, if I only wanted to talk to people who agreed with me, why would I be here?!

It's not a debate if people agree with you.

debates are stimulating until someone comes in and flips out at you, twisting your words and slandering you.