Caring for the poor and needy

[mordorbund]

To Vort, and Mordorbund, and any others following this thread.

 

Hmmm. I hope you do not misunderstand me by thinking that I think money alone will solve the poverty issue. That is not my position. But that money, 4% of world's 225 greatest fortunes would, according to the UN*, would be sufficient to resolve the problem given that other necessary factors are put into place. These other factors range widely, from good governance to sustainable lifestyles. The point is that the money is a sine qua non, an enabling factor. Without it we can't do what we need to, as quickly as we might; with it, we have the potential to solve the poverty problem for good and all.

You recently started a business. I don't know if you have any investors, but I'm sure you're aware that in any financial venture investors want to know what their money will be doing. I have heard you call for money from the wealthiest 225, but I haven't heard any plan for what this money will do except "end poverty once and for all". In the VC world, you've put the cart before the horse. You're trying to raise money before you have a product (or plan in this case). If you're struggling to come up with a plan you can review a few posts in this thread.

 

http://lds.net/forums/topic/56061-caring-for-the-poor-and-needy/?p=802479

http://lds.net/forums/topic/56061-caring-for-the-poor-and-needy/?p=802487

http://lds.net/forums/topic/56061-caring-for-the-poor-and-needy/?p=802588

http://lds.net/forums/topic/56061-caring-for-the-poor-and-needy/?p=803370

http://lds.net/forums/topic/56061-caring-for-the-poor-and-needy/?p=803496

http://lds.net/forums/topic/56061-caring-for-the-poor-and-needy/?p=803913

http://lds.net/forums/topic/56061-caring-for-the-poor-and-needy/?p=804100

 

Feel free to ask followup questions to see exactly how these are or can be implemented.

 

 

As for the rich, doing more than they need, well I did take that to be tongue in cheek, and therefore have not addressed the point, til now. I accept that some wealthy people are doing more than their fair share, as some poor people are. If your list of virtuous rich people included the Sultans and the Emirs of Brunei and of the Middle East, the Sheikhs and petty sheikhs of Saudi Arabia and the Arabian peninsular, maybe a few Russian oligarchs, perhaps the odd African demagogue, possibly an Indian entrepreneur or two, then I might be more impressed by it. But these rich people are the same rich people who employ expensive tax accountants to minimise their civil liabilities abroad, and generally bend laws at home to suit themselves, rather than the poorest amongst us. I cannot find that such are Christian tactics, or that supporting them are.

 

For all you know, I may very well be the Sultan of Brunei (or even a Nigerian prince, but I can't access my wealth right now - I can explain it over pm). Will you really refuse my money for eradicating poverty if I only give because my expensive tax accountant tells me it's the best way to minimize my civil liabilities? I wouldn't think the motivation would matter, just that the right amount of money is getting redistributed. Is this really failing because the donor's intentions aren't pure enough?

[Traveler]

Actually, Traveler, as I read this, I thought we were beginning to make some progress. I thought we were discussing how, given the required resources, to make the poor comfortably off, or at least less poor. That would be constructive. But, you had to finish with an ad hominem side-swipe you are in no position to make. Admit it; you have no idea what charities I support, and to what extent. Your remarks in this respect are mere rhetoric and entirely irrelevant. Retract them, and let's talk about how to provide the poor with addiction therapies, other health care, education, an opportunity to earn money, etc, and where the resources to do this on a global scale are to come from.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

I know what you think is a solution to end poverty and what you think is Christian.  You have said that a redistribution of wealth is all that is needed.  In previous posts I have shown where exactly that experiment has been tried and that it is failed.  In 1960 census it was established that by transferring 2% of the GNP in wealth distribution we could end poverty in the USA.  Over 50 years we have tried this experiment - it was advertized that the idea was sound but just a little more was needed.  We are not redistributing over 12% of the USA GNP (that is over 6 times what was determined as the max necessary).  The result is:

 

1: Greater separation between the very rich and very poor.

2: A shrinking of the middle class

3: A historical high in cost of living in the USA.

4: The problems of poverty has increased (not diminished in any demonstrable way) in the USA over this time period.

 

You have been very vocal and explicit that the solution does not include any thing you have done or are doing.  If I missed that post please point it out to me.  I have pointed out there there are at least 5 kinds of poor.  I gave two examples of poor and how your plan completely fails both those types.

 

I am giving you a very good opportunity to demonstrate why you believe poverty can be solved with your methods.  I have personally been involved with several poor individuals.  I have worked one on one with homeless and others down on their luck and I know from experience and disappointment a lot of things that don't work very well and sometimes do not work at all.  I can surmise with some authority that if you think you are helping by merely supporting some charitable organization - you may pat yourself on your back and feel good but likely do not have a clue about real solutions to poverty problems.

 

I know I am being brutal but sometimes being blunt is more helpful than trying to kindly hint about things.  But let me ask this question - as hurtful as it may seem there is the kind of love and service that can produce results.  Do you know enough about how to solve poverty to solve any personal poverty.  I know for a fact that I can teach you - even over the internet on this very forum and this very thread - how to end your personal poverty.  My method is 100% effective and has always worked - and if you are interested I can teach you.  But I cannot teach you what you do not want to learn.

 

I will give you a hint - it comes from the teachings of Jesus Christ in Luke 21:1-4

 

 

1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.

 2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.

 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:

 4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.