The Words of Baptism

[Average Joe]

Most of us are familiar with baptism. When we look for the proper form we think of these scriptures:

 

 

Days of Enoch

And he gave unto me [Enoch] a commandment that I should baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, which is full of grace and truth, and of the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son. Moses 7:11

 

 

After Christ appears in the new world

And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. 3 Ne. 11:24-25

 

 

Modern era

The person who is called of God and has authority from Jesus Christ to baptize, shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism, and shall say, calling him or her by name: Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Doctrine and Covenants 20:73

 

 

Pretty standard fare. So what are your thoughts on Alma the Elder?

 

 

And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.

 

 

And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world. Mosiah 18:12-13

 

 

[Just_A_Guy]

http://askgramps.org/31974/why-is-our-current-baptismal-prayer-different-than-the-one-peter-stated-in-acts

[bytebear]

I think the above elaborate quote is an introduction, a precursor to the actual ordinance.  Similar to a bishop perhaps expounding on the event.  Or perhaps like a temple wedding when the officiator may give advice or expound on the significance of eternal families, but then the actual ordinance is very simple.  So, in short, it's a preamble to the ordniance.

[Average Joe]

http://askgramps.org/31974/why-is-our-current-baptismal-prayer-different-than-the-one-peter-stated-in-acts

 

Yes, Heaven Father can choose to allow what he will, as in telling Joseph Smith to use water instead of wine for sacrament. However, we still run up against the issue that the BoM was written and abridged  because as Moroni wrote:

 

 

“Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing” (Morm. 8:34–35).

 

 

President Ezra Taft Benson declared in general conference, “The Book of Mormon … was written for our day. The Nephites never had the book; neither did the Lamanites of ancient times. It was meant for us.” (Ensign, Nov. 1986, p. 6.)

 

In that context, why do you think Alma the Elder's words were placed where and in the way they were?  

Edited May 9, 2015 by Average Joe

[Average Joe]

I think the above elaborate quote is an introduction, a precursor to the actual ordinance.  Similar to a bishop perhaps expounding on the event.  Or perhaps like a temple wedding when the officiator may give advice or expound on the significance of eternal families, but then the actual ordinance is very simple.  So, in short, it's a preamble to the ordniance.

 

This may well be the fact but I'd like to ask you as I asked JAG. the BoM was written and abridged because as Moroni wrote:

 

 

“Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing” (Morm. 8:34–35).

 

 

President Ezra Taft Benson declared in general conference, “The Book of Mormon … was written for our day. The Nephites never had the book; neither did the Lamanites of ancient times. It was meant for us.” (Ensign, Nov. 1986, p. 6.)

 

 

In that context, why do you think Alma the Elder's "it's a preamble to the ordinance" were placed where and in the way they were instead of the ordinance itself?   

Edited May 9, 2015 by Average Joe

[bytebear]

Well, I think the answer is simple.  The preamble was an important pondering on the meaning, the significance, of baptism, but it wasn't the template for the ordinance.  The template for the ordinance is given elsewhere in the Book of Mormon, and explicitly to the Restored Church in the Doctrine and Covenants.

Edited May 10, 2015 by bytebear

[ether-ore]

The Lord accepted the words of Alma inasmuch as the Spirit of the Lord was upon him and inspired him to say what he said.  We, of course, follow the revelation given to us in the D&C.

[Average Joe]

The Lord accepted the words of Alma inasmuch as the Spirit of the Lord was upon him and inspired him to say what he said.  We, of course, follow the revelation given to us in the D&C.

These things are all true.

[Average Joe]

Well, I think the answer is simple.  The preamble was an important pondering on the meaning, the significance, of baptism, but it wasn't the template for the ordinance.  The template for the ordinance is given elsewhere in the Book of Mormon, and explicitly to the Restored Church in the Doctrine and Covenants.

This is true.

[Average Joe]

I guess it's time for me to give my thoughts on the words of Baptism.

 

In Moses 7:11, 3 Ne. 11:24-25, & Doctrine and Covenants 20:73 we find the instruction for what to say at baptism as given by the Lord to his prophets. Mosiah 18:12-13 is different in that the actual ordinance is presented being preformed. Every member is pretty much familiar with the words of the ordinance, what (in my mind) is being presented in these verses as mentioned by bytebear and ether-ore is either the words inspired by God or a preamble/baptism talk. In either case the question becomes why did Mormon abridge the record in such a way? 

 

Mormon understood he was abridging the BoM for our day. As President Ezra Taft Benson declared, “The Book of Mormon … was written for our day...It was meant for us.” (Ensign, Nov. 1986, p. 6.) Any answer would have to bear these facts in mind.

 

First Mosiah 18:12, "And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart."

 

Alma chapter 11 tells us:  Zeniff conferred the kingdom upon Noah [and] he put down all the priests that had been consecrated by his father, and consecrated new ones in their stead, such as were lifted up in the pride of their hearts. And the people  were deceived by the vain and flattering words of the king and priests. Furthermore, King Noah spent his time in riotous living with his wives and his concubines; and so did also his priests. 

 

By this we can see that Alma [the priesthood] had a true chance of heart, repenting of his sins and consecrating his work to the Lord.

 

Secondly, Mosiah 18:13: "And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world." 

 

Alma had been profoundly affected by the death of Abinadi who had died a martyr, and because he had believed on Abinadi's words and had tried to defend him, the king and his priests sought his life too. He knew the price of true conversion as did those who met with him secretly: "[that baptism was] a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body."

 

What was Alma's day like? 

 

Their leaders...did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness being lifted up in the pride of their hearts. They were supported in their laziness, and in their idolatry, and in their whoredoms, by the heavy taxes they had put upon the people who they deceived with vain and flattering words. And the seats which were set apart for the high priests, were above all the other seats, since they were a law unto themselves. This was a time when their leader did walk after the desires of his own heart and changed the way the kingdom was run. The leaders broke the word of wisdom and so did the people. 

 

Their army was lifted up in the pride of their hearts because of their victory; they did boast in their own strength,and did delight in blood, and this because of the wickedness of their government's leaders.

 

Their leaders built many elegant and spacious buildings; and he ornamented them with all manner of precious things.

 

​Do you see any semblance to today? These verses were written to us in our day.

 

​The scriptures are replete with "the church in the wilderness" theme. Alma the elder describes the way people become members of this church: "have entered into a covenant to serve [God] until [they] are dead as to the mortal body; [that] the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon [them]; [that] he grant unto [them] eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world.

 

These members are meant to be us, even as these words are meant for us. We don't reject the prophets, we believe on the calling and the words of the prophets even while accepting they are men with faults. Our eyes are wide open to the wickedness around us so that we do not listen to vain and flattering words which lift up in pride and harden the heart. We keep his commandments that we might always have his spirit to be with us - to strengthen us because have hope in the plan of salvation because of our faith in Jesus Christ.

 

Perhaps that sounds like a "preachy" answer. I just sometimes feel we're to quick with the easy answers (although I realize these sometimes have their place) like: God can do what he wants, fast, pray, read your scriptures. Do we fast and prayer, and read our scriptures for the easy answers...or for the test that is upon us?

 

 

Edited May 10, 2015 by Average Joe

[Blackmarch]

Most of us are familiar with baptism. When we look for the proper form we think of these scriptures:

 

 

Days of Enoch

And he gave unto me [Enoch] a commandment that I should baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, which is full of grace and truth, and of the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and the Son. Moses 7:11

 

 

After Christ appears in the new world

And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. 3 Ne. 11:24-25

 

 

Modern era

The person who is called of God and has authority from Jesus Christ to baptize, shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism, and shall say, calling him or her by name: Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Doctrine and Covenants 20:73

 

 

Pretty standard fare. So what are your thoughts on Alma the Elder?

 

 

And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.

 

 

And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world. Mosiah 18:12-13

interesting question. Possibly could have something to do with when it was given.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Blackmarch

[Average Joe]

interesting question. Possibly could have something to do with when it was given.

I believe so :)