zil Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 42. Oh, wait, that's the answer, not the meaning. Nevermind. Carry on. Quote
Traveler Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 I just disagree with the definition. Self-sufficient means one can take care of his own needs. It does not mean there are no wants, or no desire to strive--for example, to create. I indicated I like this even though I do not completely agree. "Need" is a most nebulous term. For example - Does G-d need righteous followers to accomplish his work and build up his church? I happen to think so. I think G-d needed you, PC, to convince me that not all Evangelicals hate "Mormons". Is G-d self-sufficient? Not sure he is. He may not rely on you and I for very much but I like to think he did a good and smart thing in creating us - that we fulfill a good and needed purpose for him. Quote
Traveler Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I stated that the purpose of life is to die. Did not get much feed back but I will bring up the principle again. If anyone else has a more complete purpose - I would like to understand what you are thinking. Every other purpose that we seem to think - I bet I can give an example where G-d has created someone or something to not fulfill that other purpose. So important is death that I think we make a great mistake in blaming Satan (or Adam and Eve) for helping bring it about. Death was G-d's plan and idea from the beginning. But death is only one side of a most important coin and that is the point I think we miss. Edited January 21, 2016 by Traveler Quote
Guest Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 (cue Horseshack). OOh! Ooh! I've got a response. I think the purpose of all existence is to progress as far as we can. Death for us is simply a step in that progression, not the purpose itself. Quote
Anddenex Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 To have desires is to indicate a lack - a lack of whatever one desires. There is truth in this statement; however, taken to an absolute it appears to become a falsehood. Truth in this statement I do find is that I "lack" riches, and I "desire" riches. My desire truly comes from a lacking standpoint. I desire to bless my kids. As a human, finite, I am only able to bless according to my abilities, knowledge, and power. Thus, indeed my desire to bless may come from a lack. Other times my desire to bless doesn't come from a lack, because I can bless and either choose not to, or choose to do so. Either way, I am not lacking in that thing that I desire to bless. The desire to bless, totality, does not introduce a lack from one that is infinite and has the capability to bless in all things. God truly desires, wants, to bless all of us, but it doesn't come from a lacking standpoint (he has everything). He can bless. He does bless, not because he lacks. zil 1 Quote
prisonchaplain Posted January 21, 2016 Author Report Posted January 21, 2016 I indicated I like this even though I do not completely agree. "Need" is a most nebulous term. For example - Does G-d need righteous followers to accomplish his work and build up his church? I happen to think so. I think G-d needed you, PC, to convince me that not all Evangelicals hate "Mormons". Is G-d self-sufficient? Not sure he is. He may not rely on you and I for very much but I like to think he did a good and smart thing in creating us - that we fulfill a good and needed purpose for him. We'll end at the same conclusion. God "needs" us to build his church. He did not "need" to build his church. He did/does it for us. How about this one: He does not need our love, but he loves our love. He is love...and even that which we give him comes from him. So... we can debate God's self-sufficiency, but it pleases me to consider that my making was for his pleasure--not something he had to have to make it. The latter might even be concerning. Quote
Traveler Posted January 21, 2016 Report Posted January 21, 2016 We'll end at the same conclusion. God "needs" us to build his church. He did not "need" to build his church. He did/does it for us. How about this one: He does not need our love, but he loves our love. He is love...and even that which we give him comes from him. So... we can debate God's self-sufficiency, but it pleases me to consider that my making was for his pleasure--not something he had to have to make it. The latter might even be concerning. I like to think our creation was a sacrifice. That means that there was an effort involved in creation. If G-d did not create and sacrifice for us he would not be the same. But we are discussing an attribute of his love. If his love was not great he would not create us and the fact that he did create completes his love. So he needs us - but not near to the extent that we need him. In short G-d does good and needful things - since he is good he needs to do good things. Quote
prisonchaplain Posted January 21, 2016 Author Report Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Certainly the Son--who did the creating--sacrificed--since He knew where it would lead. Colossians 1:16-17: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Edited January 21, 2016 by prisonchaplain Quote
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