Tomboys

[Dror]

This morning I was watching the Today Show, and they had a little section on raising tomboys. Some parents are concerned that their daughters were more interested in "boy things" than normal, but many do not worry about it. They also speculated as to why some girls are tomboys, but so far it seems to be just that--speculation. In any case, it occurred to me that the Today Show story would have been a whole lot different had it been about boys who were more interested in "girl stuff" than normal.

So, I'm curious, why do you suppose it is widely acceptable for girls to be tomboys in our culture, but not for boys to be feminine (I can't even think of an equivalent term to 'tomboy'!).

It also brings to mind some neighbors we had several years ago. It was an LDS couple who had a little boy. They were trying their best to raise him as "gender-neutral" as possible, allowing him to have trucks, GI Joes, etc., but if he wanted dolls, tea sets, etc., that would be fine. Before long, they noticed that outside influences pushing him towards "things masculine" was practically unavoidable.

Dror

[Edited to include a postscript]

P.S. I just thought of something else. Since my wife died I have kept some of her things. Some of them I keep, obviously, because they remind me of her. Maybe I risk being called "unmanly" by saying this, but some of the stuff I keep at least partly because they're nice things that are somewhat feminine. I admit it's kind of nice having some "feminine" things around the house (and the fact they belonged to my wife serves as a good excuse to keep them! ). Am I weird for liking certain "feminine" things even though I'm a man?

[Elphaba]

P.S. I just thought of something else. Since my wife died I have kept some of her things. Some of them I keep, obviously, because they remind me of her. Maybe I risk being called "unmanly" by saying this, but some of the stuff I keep at least partly because they're nice things that are somewhat feminine. I admit it's kind of nice having some "feminine" things around the house (and the fact they belonged to my wife serves as a good excuse to keep them! ). Am I weird for liking certain "feminine" things even though I'm a man?

I think wanting lovely things surrounding you speaks well of you. Additionally, I suspect it also reminds you of your wife and the presence she brought to your house. It makes sense to me you would her presence to remain, if that is indeed what is happening.

Nevertheless, I think whatever style you want your house to be, it is not weird. Human beings' preferences are as vast and varied as the stars, and while there will always be someone to poke his nose in and say "that's weeeiiirredd!!, it's really not. It's more a manifstation of your personality and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks--it only matters what you think. (Just lay off the shrunken heads, okay? )

I'm very sorry about your wife.

Elphaba

[Dror]

(Just lay off the shrunken heads, okay? )

I'm very sorry about your wife.

Elphaba

Ok, no shrunken heads (they creep me out, too)!

One thing my wife liked that I don't is country music, so I still don't listen to it. Well, ok, every once in a blue moon I do, just to think of her and how she got me to tolerate her playing it!!

Something I like that my wife wasn't terribly excited about is martial arts movies. Another is 'Star Trek,' which she thought was stupid. Oh well, to each his/her own!

BTW, my idea of decorating consists primarily of lining the walls with books. In that, my wife and I were just alike!

Dror

[Elphaba]

Something I like that my wife wasn't terribly excited about is martial arts movies. Another is 'Star Trek,' which she thought was stupid. Oh well, to each his/her own!

BTW, my idea of decorating consists primarily of lining the walls with books. In that, my wife and I were just alike!

Dror

Well, see, what you do is you take the martial arts and Star Trek movies and "hide" them behind the books in the book shelves. Problem solved!

I agree with the both of you. There is no better wall decoration than books. Walls and walls of books. I find they actually comfort me.

Elphaba

[Dror]

No opinions about tomboys, anybody?

Dror

[pushka]

Dror...I think the equivalent word you were looking for is Effeminate...

I would suppose the reason that this appears not to be tolerated as much as Tomboys is that people fear that effeminate boys/men will likely be gay, whereas girls/women who are tomboys are not automatically associated with being lesbians unless some more obvious behaviours indicate that too..

I have no problem at all with boys being interested in girl things and vice versa. I think it is healthy to take an interest in the opposite sex and what they're interested in too, and of their opinions, in order to empathise with them at certain times in life where not being empathetic would cause problems...

Btw..my idea of decorating is walls of books too...I love 'em! :)

[the Ogre]

Dror,

I was the big-mouthed rat in school that got beat-up a lot until I outgrew the bullies and returned serve. One of the words that can be said on this board for the opposite of tom-boy is sissy. There are plenty of others. I think the current governor of California once called a group of people girly-men.

My daughter is a tomboy and my oldest wants to be a chef (my youngest is as undecided as most high-school boys), but no one calls him a sissy or girly-man. That is what is interesting.

Aaron the Ogre

[Annabelli]

No opinions about tomboys, anybody?

Dror

There were two tomboys in our neighborhood. They wore sports jerseys non stop and their mother was always in jeans and a flannel shirt or t-shirt. The father was mostly wearing bluejean bibs with t-shirts and flannel jackets.

Somewhere between Jr High and High School, the older girl decided to wear feminine apparel and makeup. We will describe her as being "gaudy." Her clothes and make-up were bright colors to include hair color.

Her sister fell into the jeans and t-shirt family tradition. After high school graduation, the older girl started wearing jeans and t-shirts too.

Neither got into piercings or tattoos. Neither one went to college or entered the workforce full time. They are all just "home bodies." Fortunately both parents work. Oh, and no boyfriend connections to report so marriage is really on the "back burner" for the tomboys.

[the Ogre]

<div class='quotemain'>

No opinions about tomboys, anybody?

Dror

There were two tomboys in our neighborhood. They wore sports jerseys non stop and their mother was always in jeans and a flannel shirt or t-shirt. The father was mostly wearing bluejean bibs with t-shirts and flannel jackets.

Somewhere between Jr High and High School, the older girl decided to wear feminine apparel and makeup. We will describe her as being "gaudy." Her clothes and make-up were bright colors to include hair color.

Her sister fell into the jeans and t-shirt family tradition. After high school graduation, the older girl started wearing jeans and t-shirts too.

Neither got into piercings or tattoos. Neither one went to college or entered the workforce full time. They are all just "home bodies." Fortunately both parents work. Oh, and no boyfriend connections to report so marriage is really on the "back burner" for the tomboys.

But, this can't be what happens to all Tomboys.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

No opinions about tomboys, anybody?

Dror

There were two tomboys in our neighborhood. They wore sports jerseys non stop and their mother was always in jeans and a flannel shirt or t-shirt. The father was mostly wearing bluejean bibs with t-shirts and flannel jackets.

Somewhere between Jr High and High School, the older girl decided to wear feminine apparel and makeup. We will describe her as being "gaudy." Her clothes and make-up were bright colors to include hair color.

Her sister fell into the jeans and t-shirt family tradition. After high school graduation, the older girl started wearing jeans and t-shirts too.

Neither got into piercings or tattoos. Neither one went to college or entered the workforce full time. They are all just "home bodies." Fortunately both parents work. Oh, and no boyfriend connections to report so marriage is really on the "back burner" for the tomboys.

But, this can't be what happens to all Tomboys.

I agree with Aaron. I don't think their circumstances have anything to do with them having been "tomboys."

Elphaba

[pam]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

No opinions about tomboys, anybody?

Dror

There were two tomboys in our neighborhood. They wore sports jerseys non stop and their mother was always in jeans and a flannel shirt or t-shirt. The father was mostly wearing bluejean bibs with t-shirts and flannel jackets.

Somewhere between Jr High and High School, the older girl decided to wear feminine apparel and makeup. We will describe her as being "gaudy." Her clothes and make-up were bright colors to include hair color.

Her sister fell into the jeans and t-shirt family tradition. After high school graduation, the older girl started wearing jeans and t-shirts too.

Neither got into piercings or tattoos. Neither one went to college or entered the workforce full time. They are all just "home bodies." Fortunately both parents work. Oh, and no boyfriend connections to report so marriage is really on the "back burner" for the tomboys.

But, this can't be what happens to all Tomboys.

I agree with Aaron. I don't think their circumstances have anything to do with them having been "tomboys."

Elphaba

Heaven forbid mothers who were jeans all the time.

[Annabelli]

The traits that some tomboyish girls have just vanish over time. I have a lot of adult friends who were tomboys and are in the medical field or teachers...etc. I think that some girls are just intimidated by the attention of the frilly stuff when they are young.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

No opinions about tomboys, anybody?

Dror

There were two tomboys in our neighborhood. They wore sports jerseys non stop and their mother was always in jeans and a flannel shirt or t-shirt. The father was mostly wearing bluejean bibs with t-shirts and flannel jackets.

Somewhere between Jr High and High School, the older girl decided to wear feminine apparel and makeup. We will describe her as being "gaudy." Her clothes and make-up were bright colors to include hair color.

Her sister fell into the jeans and t-shirt family tradition. After high school graduation, the older girl started wearing jeans and t-shirts too.

Neither got into piercings or tattoos. Neither one went to college or entered the workforce full time. They are all just "home bodies." Fortunately both parents work. Oh, and no boyfriend connections to report so marriage is really on the "back burner" for the tomboys.

But, this can't be what happens to all Tomboys.

I agree with Aaron. I don't think their circumstances have anything to do with them having been "tomboys."

Elphaba

Heaven forbid mothers who were jeans all the time.

hehehehehe

Elphie

[the Ogre]

The traits that some tomboyish girls have just vanish over time. I have a lot of adult friends who were tomboys and are in the medical field or teachers...etc. I think that some girls are just intimidated by the attention of the frilly stuff when they are young.

Or just don't like it.

[Fiannan]

Well, according to one avenue of research you might check a child's ring finger as it relates to the index finger. The ring finger is very sensitive in pre-natal growth to the influences of testosterone. A boy or girl with a ring finger that is the same size or shorter than the index finger received less male hormone and according to some researchers that person will be more girlish. If you have a long ring finger in relation to the index finger you are more masculine (girls tend especially to be tomboyish, have deeper voices, etc.).

Just thought this was interesting.

[Gabelma]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

No opinions about tomboys, anybody?

Dror

There were two tomboys in our neighborhood. They wore sports jerseys non stop and their mother was always in jeans and a flannel shirt or t-shirt. The father was mostly wearing bluejean bibs with t-shirts and flannel jackets.

Somewhere between Jr High and High School, the older girl decided to wear feminine apparel and makeup. We will describe her as being "gaudy." Her clothes and make-up were bright colors to include hair color.

Her sister fell into the jeans and t-shirt family tradition. After high school graduation, the older girl started wearing jeans and t-shirts too.

Neither got into piercings or tattoos. Neither one went to college or entered the workforce full time. They are all just "home bodies." Fortunately both parents work. Oh, and no boyfriend connections to report so marriage is really on the "back burner" for the tomboys.

But, this can't be what happens to all Tomboys.

LOL umm I am a tomboy - as a teen took the grunge fashion very much to heart I mean isn't it great when you can be trendy shopping at thrift shops and never ironing your clothes:) I spent my teens in boots, jeans, mens shirts and a mans overcoat. That has grown into more hippie clothes so now my brightly colour tops have emoboridery, but I still prefer jeans and an overcoat. I love Star Trek, martial arts movies and computer games. I got to college despite having learning difficulties and if it wasn't for my illness would have easily become a good forensic anthropologist.

And ok I only had a couple of boyfriends, but was married by 25 and personally I think being a tomboy helped me to find a better husband and gives us a better marriage as we are better friends. I am glad I took it slowly. All my tomboy friends have good lives now.

I want my children to be themselves, my husband is very good at cooking, beadwork and produces some great crocheted works. My daugter loves pink, flowers and butterflies but can come in covered in mud and bruises after a game of football. Right now my son loves his pink dummy (pacifier) and his favoruite show is Fifi and the Flowertots.

-Charley

[StrawberryFields]

Okay yes after Fiannans post I did check out my hand lol

My daughter (who is very beautiful) just let me get her her first purse at 18. She has not been much into much of anything girlie since she stopped me from doing her hair and dressing her. She did play with dolls and had many girl friends, she just didn't like dresses, jewelry, makeup, or dressy shoes. He church clothes were very understated and she even turned down dates to dances because she didn't want to dress up.

Now she likes skirts and wears them about half of the time. She likes jewelry and nails and polish. She carries a purse and other accessories. The only make-up she wears is lip gloss but loves perfume and smelly lotion. I think it just takes time for some girls to want to bother with some of the maintenance.

[pam]

Well, according to one avenue of research you might check a child's ring finger as it relates to the index finger. The ring finger is very sensitive in pre-natal growth to the influences of testosterone. A boy or girl with a ring finger that is the same size or shorter than the index finger received less male hormone and according to some researchers that person will be more girlish. If you have a long ring finger in relation to the index finger you are more masculine (girls tend especially to be tomboyish, have deeper voices, etc.).

Just thought this was interesting.

Well then I have proven that theory wrong. My ring finger is much longer than my index finger and I am FAR from being masculine.

[Annabelli]

That theory could also make glove wearing look unusual.

[Dror]

Thanks for all your comments! I, too, checked my fingers after what Fiannan wrote. It would seem I'm not a 'girly man'. (Whew--wiping my brow with relief!)

I notice that all the words used to describe relatively feminine boys are rather derogatory. But 'tomboy' is not generally considered negative. Are we to assume that masculinity is more highly valued in our culture?

Dror

[gabelpa]

Thanks for all your comments! I, too, checked my fingers after what Fiannan wrote. It would seem I'm not a 'girly man'. (Whew--wiping my brow with relief!)

I notice that all the words used to describe relatively feminine boys are rather derogatory. But 'tomboy' is not generally considered negative. Are we to assume that masculinity is more highly valued in our culture?

Dror

I think it is more valued in the US - as the saying goes at dressing up parties an English man will do anything to wear a pair of tights lol Was thinking about this earlier I was talking about Men being able to wear dresses in certain places and my daughter turned round andsay oh yes men like Jesus,

-Charley

[Elphaba]

I think it is more valued in the US - as the saying goes at dressing up parties an English man will do anything to wear a pair of tights lol Was thinking about this earlier I was talking about Men being able to wear dresses in certain places and my daughter turned round andsay oh yes men like Jesus,

-Charley

Awww. What a sweetie. :)

Elphaba

[Dror]

I think it is more valued in the US - as the saying goes at dressing up parties an English man will do anything to wear a pair of tights lol Was thinking about this earlier I was talking about Men being able to wear dresses in certain places and my daughter turned round andsay oh yes men like Jesus,

-Charley

[pam]

Thanks for all your comments! I, too, checked my fingers after what Fiannan wrote. It would seem I'm not a 'girly man'. (Whew--wiping my brow with relief!)

I notice that all the words used to describe relatively feminine boys are rather derogatory. But 'tomboy' is not generally considered negative. Are we to assume that masculinity is more highly valued in our culture?

Dror

Would the value of masculinity come from centuries ago? Or even in today's society...where men who have multiple sons are thought of to be more masculine and the sons are more valued?

[Gabelma]

<div class='quotemain'>

Thanks for all your comments! I, too, checked my fingers after what Fiannan wrote. It would seem I'm not a 'girly man'. (Whew--wiping my brow with relief!)

I notice that all the words used to describe relatively feminine boys are rather derogatory. But 'tomboy' is not generally considered negative. Are we to assume that masculinity is more highly valued in our culture?

Dror

Would the value of masculinity come from centuries ago? Or even in today's society...where men who have multiple sons are thought of to be more masculine and the sons are more valued?

not sure when I think back through our monarchs most of the Kings have been effeminate in style, same with the nobility.

Charley