Employee Issue

[Guest]

I had a most unusual call from an employee.  And the circumstances were also unusual, so some of the normal rules may not apply.  So I'm having a problem deciding what sort of action I should take, if any.

1. This is moonlighting work that I had given him as a contract employee (W9 / 1099).
2. He's otherwise unemployed.  I was helping him out.
3. He called me during off hours so as not to disturb me during my day job.
4. He's also a friend.
5. He was drinking.  15 minutes into the call he started meandering and going off on tangents.  2 minutes into the meanderings, he began slurring his speech.

This last part sticks out in my mind because he's not only does he knows that I'm an active Mormon, but he's also an ex-Mormon.  Thus far he's shown a decent respect for me and the faith.  But this was weird.  I've never been present to witness the actual descent into drunkenness.  As I said, it only took 2 minutes from sober, through "huh?  What's going on?", to "Dude, you're drunk".

I don't know about most people, but I always thought that it was bad form to call your boss when you were drunk or even drinking.  And I have a hunch it's affecting his work.

Is this worth taking any action on?

Edited May 20, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

Bad form to be sure, but all things considered I'd put it away as an anomaly and not "take action", per se, other than maybe telling him (privately) that you'll expect it never happens again. If it does happen again, it's time to do more.

I think people ought to be allowed to make the odd mistake. It didn't hurt anybody, it was just inappropriate. Who knows the full circumstances behind the incident? I wouldn't make an issue of it happening one time. 

[Guest]

A couple other things:

1) When you give a friend contract work, is there a certain hour that the employer/employee dynamic shifts back to a friend/friend dynamic?

2) Calling a contractor an employee isn't exactly accurate. He's a contractor and you're a client.  That's how it works around here, anyway, and I'm thinking of an IT environment. I'm not totally certain but I think that's the field you're in.

Not that that changes the fact that this phone call was probably inappropriate, but taking such an authoritarian stance, after hours, with a friend who is doing contract work for you gives me pause. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Eowyn said:

A couple other things:

1) When you give a friend contract work, is there a certain hour that the employer/employee dynamic shifts back to a friend/friend dynamic?

2) Calling a contractor an employee isn't exactly accurate. He's a contractor and you're a client.  That's how it works around here, anyway, and I'm thinking of an IT environment. I'm not totally certain but I think that's the field you're in.

Not that that changes the fact that this phone call was probably inappropriate, but taking such an authoritarian stance, after hours, with a friend who is doing contract work for you gives me pause. 

You're probably right.  Now that I've slept on it, I think I was more shocked by seeing the sudden transformation right before my eyes/ears than anything else.

[LeSellers]

55 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

You're probably right.  Now that I've slept on it, I think I was more shocked by seeing the sudden transformation right before my eyes/ears than anything else.

One of the main reasons I didn't stay in the Army longer is a similar situation. We were required to go to the O Club (Officers' Club) for staff meetings. In most cases, I was the only one who did not drink. For about a half hour, we got things done, but after that, i just got to watch grown men disintegrate into blithering idiots. So the rest of my evening (sometimes running until midnight or, on Fridays, 'til 0200) was a total waste. Even in their drunken stupor, they'd notice if I left, so I couldn't escape because it was a mandatory formation.

Alcohol does not make things better, in any amount, in any situation.

Lehi

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You're probably right.  Now that I've slept on it, I think I was more shocked by seeing the sudden transformation right before my eyes/ears than anything else.

Are you sure it was alcohol?  Two minutes from sober to slurring doesn't seem right.  Even after slamming 6-8 shots of bourbon I distinctly remember it taking 15-20 minutes before the planet got all wobbly.  Under ten minutes would tell me it's more likely a lot of weed, or possibly something else entirely; I've had positional vertigo bad enough that I was slurring for 30-45 seconds after, and other short-term health issues like a stomach bug causing some odd hypoglycemic incidents that would take me from normal to mildly/moderately disoriented with surprisingly little exertion.

Edited May 20, 2016 by NightSG

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

Are you sure it was alcohol?  Two minutes from sober to slurring doesn't seem right.  Even after slamming 6-8 shots of bourbon I distinctly remember it taking 15-20 minutes before the planet got all wobbly.  Under ten minutes would tell me it's more likely a lot of weed, or possibly something else entirely; I've had positional vertigo bad enough that I was slurring for 30-45 seconds after, and other short-term health issues like a stomach bug causing some odd hypoglycemic incidents that would take me from normal to mildly/moderately disoriented with surprisingly little exertion.

I have no idea when he drank.  It may have already been in his system before he called me.  But you're right, there could be other causes.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I agree with Eowyn. He shouldn't have done that, but alcohol impairs judgement. Especially because he is a friend, and it's not like he came to work drunk, I would let it go.

On an odd side note...you've never seen the descent into drunkeness before?! Wow! I guess that would likely be the case for many LDS. It just remember reminds me how odd my upbringing was...I grew up with alcoholics. It's an all too familiar scene for me. In fact the #1 reason I didn't drink with my friends in high school was because I was so repulsed by the way my parents acted when they were drunk.

Edited May 20, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

.you've never seen the descent into drunkeness before?! Wow! 

That would be correct.

I've seen people begin drinking.  And I've seen them at various levels of drunkenness.  But I've never seen the transition from pretty sober to slurring-meandering speech all in one sitting.

And, yes, I'm taking Eowyn's advice and letting the professional end of it go.  But the experience is something I'm going to remember for a long time.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Guest

[Budget]

Carborendum - Your description of the phone call could be drinking - if he had been drinking before he called you and it was just hitting his system during your call but it also sounds like it could have been the side effect of a medication, a medical issue or an insulin reaction.   If this is the first time it's ever happened that you've heard/seen him this way I'd honestly let it go but jot it down on paper to stick in his employment file just in case it happens again in the future, at least you'll have documentation.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Budget said:

Carborendum - Your description of the phone call could be drinking - if he had been drinking before he called you and it was just hitting his system during your call but it also sounds like it could have been the side effect of a medication, a medical issue or an insulin reaction.   If this is the first time it's ever happened that you've heard/seen him this way I'd honestly let it go but jot it down on paper to stick in his employment file just in case it happens again in the future, at least you'll have documentation.

I get what you're saying, but as Eowyn pointed out, as a contract employee for a moonlighting gig it's a bit different.

I do want to treat him like a friend or relative that has made a mistake.  I'm probably not going to say anything this time.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just an anomaly.  But if it happens again I'll talk to him and first, verify that it was alcohol, then move on from there.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

You gotta answer these questions yourself Carb.That's why they pay you the big bucks. 

Now with those big bucks, buy us all lunch please. 

 

30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I do want to treat him like a friend or relative that has made a mistake.  I'm probably not going to say anything this time.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just an anomaly.  But if it happens again I'll talk to him and first, verify that it was alcohol, then move on from there.

I think that's the right thing to do, in all seriousness. I know you will do the right thing my friend. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by MormonGator

[NightSG]

35 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But if it happens again I'll talk to him and first, verify that it was alcohol, then move on from there.

First thing to ask is when he last ate.  Hypoglycemia can be nasty, and mild cases pretty accurately mimic alcohol intoxication.  If he's never been diagnosed with anything that would cause it, he may just need to keep an eye on it and a candy bar handy.

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, NightSG said:

.  Hypoglycemia can be nasty, and mild cases pretty accurately mimic alcohol intoxication. 

So true. An ex girlfriend had it and the effects are just like that. 

[Iggy]

Carborendum, do you know for a fact that he drinks? My first thought was a stroke, or reaction to medication of from NOT taking medication. You could easily bring it up by saying, Dude, the other day/night when you called me, all of a sudden your speech became slurred. Are you okay? Was it a reaction to some new meds? Or because you didn't take some medication on time?

You are concerned, let him know you are. IF it is/was a stroke, it quite possibly was a mini-stroke and he wouldn't notice the slurring.

It could also be caused by diabetes, not eating properly combined with not taking insulin and meds will cause slurring of speech among a host of other symptoms.

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

So true. An ex girlfriend had it and the effects are just like that. 

The amazing part is watching how fast some orange juice or Clif gel can take one from near catatonic to perfectly normal.  

The list of things that can cause it is pretty long, and some things like reactive hypoglycemia (when the body overreacts to a high carb intake and then takes a while to level out) can be hard to diagnose unless tests are run at the right time to catch it.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Iggy said:

Carborendum, do you know for a fact that he drinks?

Yes, I know he drinks.  And I know that he imbibes hard liquor some nights to help himself relax.  I've spoken with him since.  I didn't mention anything.  But something else he said told me that he knew that something was wrong in the conversation.

[Budget]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I get what you're saying, but as Eowyn pointed out, as a contract employee for a moonlighting gig it's a bit different.

Yep - I saw he was a contract employee.  I figured noting the date and details someplace would help you remember facts later "if" it comes up.   I figured you would have a file of some sort, even if it's just to track hours; since he's a contract employee... and that would be a good place to jot down the date and details just in case it happens again. 

 

 

[Blackmarch]

On May 20, 2016 at 9:27 PM, Carborendum said:

I had a most unusual call from an employee.  And the circumstances were also unusual, so some of the normal rules may not apply.  So I'm having a problem deciding what sort of action I should take, if any.

1. This is moonlighting work that I had given him as a contract employee (W9 / 1099).
2. He's otherwise unemployed.  I was helping him out.
3. He called me during off hours so as not to disturb me during my day job.
4. He's also a friend.
5. He was drinking.  15 minutes into the call he started meandering and going off on tangents.  2 minutes into the meanderings, he began slurring his speech.

This last part sticks out in my mind because he's not only does he knows that I'm an active Mormon, but he's also an ex-Mormon.  Thus far he's shown a decent respect for me and the faith.  But this was weird.  I've never been present to witness the actual descent into drunkenness.  As I said, it only took 2 minutes from sober, through "huh?  What's going on?", to "Dude, you're drunk".

I don't know about most people, but I always thought that it was bad form to call your boss when you were drunk or even drinking.  And I have a hunch it's affecting his work.

Is this worth taking any action on?

Not enough for reasonable termination unless the contract stated for the subject to be sober all the time. Otherwise i the only thing i can think of is having a definite line drawn in regards to whatever qualifies for acceptable work and how often and or how far someone can cross it before you can them.  

On thevpersonal level, id probably tell them next time i met them soberbis that they called pretty drunk, and ask if things are going allright with thwm or if they wanted help... Theyll probably turn down the offer, at which id tell them to be careful.

 

Dont really have exp with having a drunk underling... Closest was having a roomie whod get drunk on weekends. He couldnt ever remember being drunk.

[GratefulHeart]

I think its a matter of if it remains a single incident, or becomes a pattern. If you see repeat issues, and it starts impacting the work ( contractor or not), that is when you would have some grounds to talk to him about it, or even have to reconsider the working relationship.