Resistance to Gay Marriage Has Just Been Stupid

[Guest]

No, that is not a sarcastic title.  And, no, I'm not about to get on the gay marriage band-wagon.  What I mean is that the methods being used to combat gay marriage in court have been completely ineffective in such a way that we've lost rights we never had to lose.

Christian dating sites have now been ordered to offer same-sex dating matches to gay individuals.  How did that happen?  The argument used was that by our religious rights we should not be required to do something against our will.  While this is true and should have been enough in any sane person's mind, we're not dealing with a sane judicial system anymore.  It was ruled that "since you're open to the public, you have to serve the public."

My question would be what are we serving?  If you came to my hamburger stand and asked for a hot dog, I'd have to tell you that we don't serve hot dogs.  Would it be reasonable to tell the business that they have to now serve hot dogs because some people don't like hamburgers?  The tactic should reflect this line of reasoning.

We certainly welcome the business of anyone who enjoys the product we provide.  We just don't provide that product.  If you're a gay man, you can sign up for an account like anyone.  But the software we've put in place only links to people of the opposite sex.  So, please, by all means use our product as limited as it is.  But the product is what it is.  The first to fall was eHarmony.  And they had the greatest excuse of all.

"Our carefully studied system of matching was based on studies and experiments done only on heterosexual couples.  We have no idea how much, if any, of these studies are even applicable to homosexual couples.  The relationship dynamics are generally considered to operate differently.  We simply haven't studied it.  To make such a study would be an undue financial burden on the company.  And to offer the service without the proper studies would be irresponsible."

The Christian pizza place got sued because they refused to cater to a gay wedding.  Why did they refuse?  Why would they cater a wedding at all?  When have you had a pizza catering a wedding?

"We make pizzas, and we deliver to the address that you provide.  We don't really have catering services."

What if your business specifically deals with weddings (a baker who has to place a message on the cake for a gay couple)?  "We don't cater weddings of private individuals.  We only cater to approved contractors.  These contractors are companies that have applied and been on a waiting list for some time as we check their credit and do a background check."  You don't have to say that the contractors are ministries who have proven their dedication to traditional family values.

It may seem like we're backing off.  No, it's picking your battles and fighting smart rather than all out bare knuckles brawling.  The gay and transgender lobby is winning because they know how to game the system.  And believe it or not, that's the way it's supposed to work.  Why don't conservatives know how to game the system better?

Edited July 5, 2016 by Guest

[LeSellers]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Why don't conservatives know how to game the system better?

This generalization is, like most, false, but it is based on decades of observation: most conservatives are honorable people, and expect others to be honorable, as well. But most of the leadership of the progressive movement have little honor, and so do not adhere to the traditional mores and ethics of politics (if there ever were any) and business, and social interactions.

Lehi

[Guest MormonGator]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 The gay and transgender lobby is winning because they know how to game the system.  And believe it or not, that's the way it's supposed to work.  Why don't conservatives know how to game the system better?

Because conservatives focus too much on all or nothing. An immediate ban on abortion instead of reducing the number of abortions. Huge tax breaks instead of little increments in the tax code one by one. Destroying all branches of government instead of slowly removing this agency or that. 
 

The left is not smarter but it's more politically aware. It's also won the culture war by painting the right as anti-gay (which yes, I know just being against gay marriage doesn't make you anti-gay) and framing it as an issue of "being enlightened against being reactionary, etc" 

 

Once you've given someone rights it's very hard to take it away but I wish you the best of luck. 

 

 

[prisonchaplain]

We're way past gamesmenship.  The liberals are playing for keeps.  Churches are now "public accommodations." This means gender inclusive bathrooms must be provided, and there cannot be speech that would obviously make some feel "unwelcome."  http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2016/07/05/church-sues-state-iowa-over-transgender-bathroom-rules/86700392/

Today public officials are focused on the bathrooms. However, LBGT activists openly promote the idea churches and wards who promote that "all are welcome" should be considered public accommodations, so speeches given in such venues could be censored.

[Blackmarch]

9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

No, that is not a sarcastic title.  And, no, I'm not about to get on the gay marriage band-wagon.  What I mean is that the methods being used to combat gay marriage in court have been completely ineffective in such a way that we've lost rights we never had to lose.

Christian dating sites have now been ordered to offer same-sex dating matches to gay individuals.  How did that happen?  The argument used was that by our religious rights we should not be required to do something against our will.  While this is true and should have been enough in any sane person's mind, we're not dealing with a sane judicial system anymore.  It was ruled that "since you're open to the public, you have to serve the public."

My question would be what are we serving?  If you came to my hamburger stand and asked for a hot dog, I'd have to tell you that we don't serve hot dogs.  Would it be reasonable to tell the business that they have to now serve hot dogs because some people don't like hamburgers?  The tactic should reflect this line of reasoning.

We certainly welcome the business of anyone who enjoys the product we provide.  We just don't provide that product.  If you're a gay man, you can sign up for an account like anyone.  But the software we've put in place only links to people of the opposite sex.  So, please, by all means use our product as limited as it is.  But the product is what it is.  The first to fall was eHarmony.  And they had the greatest excuse of all.

"Our carefully studied system of matching was based on studies and experiments done only on heterosexual couples.  We have no idea how much, if any, of these studies are even applicable to homosexual couples.  The relationship dynamics are generally considered to operate differently.  We simply haven't studied it.  To make such a study would be an undue financial burden on the company.  And to offer the service without the proper studies would be irresponsible."

The Christian pizza place got sued because they refused to cater to a gay wedding.  Why did they refuse?  Why would they cater a wedding at all?  When have you had a pizza catering a wedding?

"We make pizzas, and we deliver to the address that you provide.  We don't really have catering services."

What if your business specifically deals with weddings (a baker who has to place a message on the cake for a gay couple)?  "We don't cater weddings of private individuals.  We only cater to approved contractors.  These contractors are companies that have applied and been on a waiting list for some time as we check their credit and do a background check."  You don't have to say that the contractors are ministries who have proven their dedication to traditional family values.

It may seem like we're backing off.  No, it's picking your battles and fighting smart rather than all out bare knuckles brawling.  The gay and transgender lobby is winning because they know how to game the system.  And believe it or not, that's the way it's supposed to work.  Why don't conservatives know how to game the system better?

According to the circuit that covers colorado... You have to accomodate if its been legalized anywhere in the US... Even if you dont offer that service/product. (paraphrased). A very scary precedent.

 

Besides when you see mom and pop businesses get run into the ground by getting sued out of house and home time and again, there is a certain fear factor that comes into play.

[Blackmarch]

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

We're way past gamesmenship.  The liberals are playing for keeps.  Churches are now "public accommodations." This means gender inclusive bathrooms must be provided, and there cannot be speech that would obviously make some feel "unwelcome."  http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2016/07/05/church-sues-state-iowa-over-transgender-bathroom-rules/86700392/

Today public officials are focused on the bathrooms. However, LBGT activists openly promote the idea churches and wards who promote that "all are welcome" should be considered public accommodations, so speeches given in such venues could be censored.

And to get organized religion reclassified to financial corporations....

[NightSG]

On 7/5/2016 at 3:24 PM, Carborendum said:

The Christian pizza place got sued because they refused to cater to a gay wedding.  Why did they refuse?  Why would they cater a wedding at all?  When have you had a pizza catering a wedding?

I wish our local "discount portrait photographer" still had his gallery site up.  He had some great candids there, like the JP throwing a water bottle at a groom who hadn't taken his ball cap off before walking into her courtroom for the ceremony.  Pizza catering would have been a step up.