The Dark 1/3

[Annabelli]

Did Satan and the 1/3 receive bodies when they were cast out?

[Doctor Steuss]

Did Satan and the 1/3 receive bodies when they were cast out?

It's a "third part," and not necessarily "one third."

But to answer you question, other than their spirit bodies, no they did not. This is why Cain will rule over Satan (as Cain will have a physical as well as spiritual body, and Satan will not).

[Annabelli]

Okay so I should have entitled it "The Dark Third Part."

Were these the spirits that Joseph Smith was addressing in D&C 50?

[Doctor Steuss]

Okay so I should have entitled it "The Dark Third Part."

Nah, 1/3 is fine. I just think that it isn't necessarily 1/3 as the scriptures always say "third part." There has been some interesting stuff in biblical studies regarding the classifications and what the "first part" and "second part" divisions may have been. But, as far as LDS nomenclature goes, you are probably safe with 1/3.

Were these the spirits that Joseph Smith was addressing in D&C 50?

Do you have a particular verse in mind? It’s my understanding that he is addressing the elders of the church and helping to clarify some previous prophecies/revelations regarding spirits.

[Annabelli]

I don't really separate the scripture passages but study them in their entirety.

D&C Summarized:

D&C 50

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, May 1831. HC 1: 170–173. The Prophet states that some of the elders did not understand the manifestations of different spirits abroad in the earth, and that this revelation was given in response to his special inquiry on the matter. So-called spiritual phenomena were not uncommon among the members, some of whom claimed to be receiving visions and revelations.

1–5, Many false spirits are abroad in the earth; 6–9, Wo unto the hypocrites and those who are cut off from the Church; 10–14, Elders are to preach the gospel by the Spirit; 15–22, Both preachers and hearers need to be enlightened by the Spirit; 23–25, That which doth not edify is not of God; 26–28, The faithful are possessors of all things; 29–36, Prayers of the purified are answered; 37–46, Christ is the Good Shepherd and the Stone of Israel.

[tiancum]

There are 2 types of bad spirits. Those that never had a body, and those that got one, and died.

Yes they are the ones he is talking about.

I used to subscribe more to the 3rd part theory, but i have heard many prophets say 1/3, so i changed my thinking a little, and won't be too surprised if its a little different than I understood.

I gotta be careful how i say this, but one of the subtle ways that they open the door to the FALSE spirits, and FALSE revelation, (and i have seen LOTS of it , many of my loved ones have fallen hard) is when our personal revelation weighs more than what the prophet says. They will forever work in tandem. They will NEVER contradict each other. it is a heavenly Law. Yet some get really weird revelations. And then depart from the church. Usually within a few years.

The bad spirits are very clever. They can deceive the very elect. Our temple covenants, and keeping the commandments will save us. If our hearts are set right, and we continually repent and renew our baptismal covenants we will be protected. God will even intervene when we are being deceived and/or hurt by the afore mentioned spirits. I have seen many miracles in this regard.

There was a very popular book going around the members of the church. I was even approached in the temple once about this. The book, and the brother that approached me tried to tell me how to receive "true revelation". And it was done by doing the ceremonies, including specific prayers OUTSIDE the temple.

President Faust told us that this was not to be done. Anyway, many were recieving wonderful revelations, like reincarnation was real, and taht they were Adam, and that polygamy was to be restored by them, and many other dark things.

Anyway, be careful guys, there are wolves among us. Lol the wolves don't like being called wolves much tho.

[Annabelli]

Are dark spirits able to enter the Temple?

[snipe123]

There was a very popular book going around the members of the church. I was even approached in the temple once about this. The book, and the brother that approached me tried to tell me how to receive "true revelation". And it was done by doing the ceremonies, including specific prayers OUTSIDE the temple.

My aunt and uncle were excommunicated from the church for participating in such a group in Manti, Utah some years ago...The group still exists...The idea(perhaps the book you are refering to) that was being circulated was called "Multiple Mortal Probation" and they did engage in such practices as plural marriage and temple ordinances outside the temple...quite sad...They had 10 children, none of which remained in the church as a result of all of this and most of them are agnostic...There is safety in orthodoxy, that is for sure...

[Jason]

There was a very popular book going around the members of the church. I was even approached in the temple once about this. The book, and the brother that approached me tried to tell me how to receive "true revelation". And it was done by doing the ceremonies, including specific prayers OUTSIDE the temple.

President Faust told us that this was not to be done.

Um, maybe you didn't know this, but the Temple Prayer Circles were done outside the Temple until recent decades. Generally they were done in Ward meetinghouses or Stake Centers in an upper room (when they still built them in two stories).

I would ask, What's the point in learning the "true order of prayer" if you can't do it?

[tiancum]

<div class='quotemain'>

There was a very popular book going around the members of the church. I was even approached in the temple once about this. The book, and the brother that approached me tried to tell me how to receive "true revelation". And it was done by doing the ceremonies, including specific prayers OUTSIDE the temple.

President Faust told us that this was not to be done.

Um, maybe you didn't know this, but the Temple Prayer Circles were done outside the Temple until recent decades. Generally they were done in Ward meetinghouses or Stake Centers in an upper room (when they still built them in two stories).

I would ask, What's the point in learning the "true order of prayer" if you can't do it?

some prayers are reserved for holy places.

about it being done outside the temple. Can you show me proof that they had permission/ council from the prophet/apostles?

If not, they were messed up, bigtime

[tiancum]

Are dark spirits able to enter the Temple?

nope but they can train people outside so that they act poorly inside.

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

There was a very popular book going around the members of the church. I was even approached in the temple once about this. The book, and the brother that approached me tried to tell me how to receive "true revelation". And it was done by doing the ceremonies, including specific prayers OUTSIDE the temple.

President Faust told us that this was not to be done.

Um, maybe you didn't know this, but the Temple Prayer Circles were done outside the Temple until recent decades. Generally they were done in Ward meetinghouses or Stake Centers in an upper room (when they still built them in two stories).

I would ask, What's the point in learning the "true order of prayer" if you can't do it?

some prayers are reserved for holy places.

about it being done outside the temple. Can you show me proof that they had permission/ council from the prophet/apostles?

If not, they were messed up, bigtime

It would seem, from the records I have, that prayer altars in Mormon homes was a common, or at least an unregulated occurrence. At least until 30 January 1947 when the First Presidency revoked the use of the true order of prayer without their special permission:

Prayer circle patterns as held in the temples of the Church are not to be duplicated or imitated outside of the temples. [Compiler’s resume.] (MFP 6:246)

It was complete abolished in a FP letter dated 3 May 1978:

“To All Stake Presidents and Bishops

“Over the years special permission has been given from time to time for special prayer circles to be held in the temples of the Church or in special rooms designated for that purpose in stake, ward, or other buildings.

“Because of the increasing number of requests for such prayer circles, viewed in light of the rapid growth of the Church, and because of the complications that holding prayer circles in temples on Sunday have created and their tendency to take the participants away from their families and their other Church responsibilities, the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve has decided that all such prayer Circles, whether held in the temples or outside the temples, be discontinued immediately.

“However, recognizing the value of these prayer circles in developing spirituality, commitment, and unity among those participating in them, we suggest that in lieu of such prayer circles, stake leaders may wish to consider the following: (1) that periodically stake leaders and their wives attend a temple session together in connection with which arrangements be made with the temple presidency for the prayer circle held during the endowment session to be composed of several stake leaders and their wives; and (2) that periodically stake leaders and their companions be called together in a special meeting where opportunity be given to those present to express themselves by way of testimony or exhortation.

Sincerely Yours,

/s/ Spencer W. Kimball

/s/ N. Eldon Tanner

/s/ M.G. Romney

The First Presidency.

[tiancum]

lol, where on earth did you find that Jason?

[Jason]

lol, where on earth did you find that Jason?

Which one? Messages of the First Presidency is/was published by Bookcraft and can still be found in used book stores that carry LDS items. (I recommend ebornbooks.com)

The second is a form letter sent out to stake presidents and can be requested from HQ.

[Nate]

From what I understand just as there was an angle to guard the Garden of Eden there are "guardian angles" that protect the temple from the spirits that are forbidin to enter. Dont ask me to reference cause I dont know( doest that just chap your glutious maximus ).

[a-train]

I think evil spirits CAN enter the temple. There are certainly some unworthy visitors on THIS side of the veil. Perhaps we can imagine that there are protections on the other side of the veil, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were not. The reality is that the presence of evil beings will not harm the temple.

We know that Jesus was tempted from the pinnacle of the temple by Satan himself. Was it therefore ruined? Was it forever tainted? The temples here are temporal, they will serve their purpose and be replaced, just as those that have done so in ancient times and the few that have been destroyed in this dispensation. The worthiness of those persons seated with you in the temple will not call into question your personal temple experience, it is only your own mind and spirit that will determine whether you will be edified by the LORD's Spirit there.

-a-train

[Gaia]

Um, maybe you didn't know this, but the Temple Prayer Circles were done outside the Temple until recent decades. Generally they were done in Ward meetinghouses or Stake Centers in an upper room (when they still built them in two stories).

I would ask, What's the point in learning the "true order of prayer" if you can't do it?

some prayers are reserved for holy places.

about it being done outside the temple. Can you show me proof that they had permission/ council from the prophet/apostles?

GAIA:

Hello All - Here is some more information on LDS Prayer Circles --

There was some discussion in a previous thread ("Did Women Ever Have the Priesthood") on the "Anointed Quorum" or "Holy Order" which Joseph Smith organized during the Nauvoo period, and in fact, one of the activities of this Quorum was to offer up prayers in the "True Order of Prayer" for the benefit and guidance of the entire Church and Kingdom of God.

The following is from a "BYU Studies" article on "LDS Prayer Circles" --

Development of LDS Prayer Circle (1829-1846):

Although conventional forms of public and private prayer were practiced within the LDS Church from its earliest years, there were significant variations in the conduct of prayer. Physical objects were sometimes used in connection with prayer. Between 1827 and 1829 the Prophet Joseph Smith sought revelation through the Urim and Thummim as well as through a Seer Stone. fn Oliver Cowdery was by revelation given the gift of working with a "rod of nature . . . and therefore whatsoever you shall ask me to tell you by that means, that will I grant unto you, that you shall know. fn

Moreover, during the Nauvoo period Apostle Heber C. Kimball "inquired by the rod" in prayer. Prayer in a circle was inaugurated in the LDS School of the Prophets at Kirtland, Ohio, in 1833, according to a reminiscence of Zebedee Coltrin fifty years later:They opened with prayer, Joseph then gave instructions to prepare their minds. He told them to kneel and pray with uplifted hands. . . About the time that the school was first organized some wished to see an angel, and a number joined in the circle, and prayed. When the vision came, two of the brethren shrank and called for the vision to close or they would perish. fn

In the LDS Church, prayer was conducted in a circle as early as 1833, but this was after the conventional manner of Protestant revival "prayer rings." When Mormons prayed in a circle before 1842, they did not offer those prayers as a part of intricate rites as was done anciently and after 1842.Even the revelation of 19 January 1841, which spoke of William Law's receiving "the keys by which he may ask and receive blessings" (D&C 124:97), did not refer to the true order of prayer. Joseph Smith's remarks to a theological lyceum at Nauvoo, Illinois, in 1841 indicate that the 1841 revelation had reference to the manner in which Deity is named:The Great God has a Name By[w[h]ich he will be Called Which is Ahman--also in asking have Referance to a personage like Adam for God made Adam Just in his own Image Now this [is] a key for you to know how to ask & obtain. fn

Not until 1842 did Joseph Smith give instructions and priesthood ordinances that constituted what was known first as "the holy order" and became known later as the "endowment."On 4 May 1842 Hyrum Smith, William Law, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, Willard Richards, Newel K. Whitney, George Miller, William Marks, and James Adams met "in Joseph's private office, where Joseph taught the ancient order of things for the first time in these last days, and received [their] washings, anointings and endowments." fn

It is very likely that the true order of prayer was included, for Heber C. Kimball wrote Apostle Parley P. Pratt on 17 June 1842: "We have received some pressious things through the Prophet on the preasthood that would caus your Soul to rejoice I can not give them to you on paper fore they are not to be riten." fnAlthough the order of prayer may have been instituted as early as 1842, the organization of a prayer circle was not complete until 1843. The initial meeting for this purpose occurred on 26 May 1843, involving eight of the men who had received the 1842 priesthood endowment, plus additional men. A summary of this May 1843 meeting is the first entry in a document at the LDS Archives titled, "Meetings of the anointed Quorum Journalizing, 1843-4." fn

The full establishment of a prayer circle that included women occurred on 28 September 1843, which is described as follows in the published History of the Church:At half-past eleven, a. m., a council convened over the store, consisting of myself, my brother Hyrum, Uncle John Smith, Newel K. Whitney, George Miller, Willard Richards, John Taylor, Amasa Lyman, John M. Bernhisel, and Lucien Woodworth; and at seven in the evening we met in the front upper room of the Mansion, with William Law and William Marks. By the common consent and unanimous voice of the council, I was chosen president of the special council.The president led in prayer that his days might be prolonged until his mission on the earth is accomplished, have dominion over his enemies, all their households be blessed, and all the Church and the world. fn

The reference to Joseph Smith's being chosen president of a special council has caused one historian and Joseph Smith's most recent biographer to conclude that this was an early organization of the theocratic Council of Fifty, fn a misinterpretation which results from a textual alteration in the published history. Instead of the words: "I was chosen president of the special council," the original record reads: "Baurak Ale was by common consent & unanimous voice chosen president of the Quorum & anointed & ordained to the highest order of the priesthood (&[Companion--d[itt]o" fn Baurak Ale was a designation for Joseph Smith, Jr., and his companion on this occasion was his wife Emma. fn

The "Quorum" mentioned was often designated the "Quorum of the Anointed," "The Holy Order of the Holy Priesthood," or "The Holy Order" in the diaries of its Nauvoo participants and in the official records available about its meetings. A reference to "quorum" in a diary or other record is too vague in itself to assume application to a prayer circle. Nevertheless, the sources are sufficiently abundant that by cross-checking different sources for the same date it is possible to identify the Nauvoo prayer circle when it was described by its various names....

Beginning 28 September 1843, the wives of previously endowed men were given the ordinances of anointing and endowment in order to join the prayer circle, and other men and women were admitted to the Anointed Quorum each week. By the time Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith were murdered in June 1844, more than sixty-five persons were members of the Quorum of the Anointed. fn

Following the example of Joseph and Emma Smith, many of the members of this group received the second anointing during the lifetime of Joseph Smith, to which President Wilford Woodruff publicly testified. fn Others, like Sidney Rigdon and Orson Pratt, participated alone, and therefore did not receive the second anointing in connection with a spouse. Male membership in the first prayer circle included only the most prominent leaders of the Church and Kingdom of God; in most cases they were General Authorities, or prominent in the bishopric of the Church or leadership of the Nauvoo Stake, whereas the other men in the Anointed Quorum who were still faithful to Joseph Smith in the spring of 1844 also became members of the Council of Fifty. fn

These men and women of the Holy Order were a select group, a religious elite within the Church, ...

Having thus conferred the keys and form of the true order of prayer, Joseph Smith apparently also authorized members of the Anointed Quorum to practice the order of prayer apart the rest of the prayer circle. While Heber C. Kimball was campaigning for Joseph Smith's presidential candidacy in Washington, D.C., he recorded in his journal on 6 June 1844: "Last nite I clothed my self and offerd up the Sines of the Holy Preasthood--and called one the nam of the Lord he hurd me fore my heart was mad comfortable," and a month later he and Apostle Lyman Wight obtained confirmation of the actuality of the martyrdom in answer to the order of prayer. fn

(Latter-Day Saint Prayer Circles Fn by D. Michael Quinn Fn, BYU Studies, vol. 19 (1978-1979), Number 1 - Fall 1978 81.)