How Depressing

[Guest Starsky]

TR2, I thought you were more intellligent that this....

Do you know, that just myself alone, have seen dozens of miracles...like when I broke my back, hip, and thigh in a fall, I was healed right in front of the paramedics .....all my bones were brought back together during a blessing by my husband.

Then there is my son with the hole in his heart....and every time a new doctor examines him....he can't figure out why my son is not only alive, but healthy and strong.....(he is now 18 and was charted to die before he was 12)

Or when this same son had two hemotomas in his right and left frontal lobes removed last year...and has no brain damage at all and went home after just one week after the 2nd surgery.....the doctors said that there was less than 1% who ever recovered with such speed and total healing...from one such surgery.....and they don't even have stats on anyone recoverying with no permenant damage after two...because there were none...

Miracles are abounding among the LDS membership....hey and my brother was also miraculously cured this last year from tumors formed all over his liver.

After we fasted, prayed, and he was given a blessing, the next examination showed the tumors in recession...where as they were growing more and more before that..

So you have to be kidding when you say you think our church doesn't have it's share of the miracles.

[Guest lt]

Actually................................

Afdaw was very on the button.....

Why do women get postpartum depression?

Having a baby can be one of the biggest and happiest events in a woman's life. While life with a new baby can be thrilling and rewarding, it can also be hard and stressful at times. Many physical and emotional changes can happen to a woman when she is pregnant and after she gives birth. These changes can leave new mothers feeling sad, anxious, afraid, or confused. For many women, these feelings (called the baby blues) go away quickly. But when these feelings do not go away or get worse, a woman may have postpartum depression. This is a serious condition that requires quick treatment from a health care provider.

There are three types of PPD women can have after giving birth:

The baby blues happen in many women in the days right after childbirth. A new mother can have sudden mood swings, such as feeling very happy and then feeling very sad. She may cry for no reason and can feel impatient, irritable, restless, anxious, lonely, and sad. The baby blues may last only a few hours or as long as 1 to 2 weeks after delivery. The baby blues do not always require treatment from a health care provider. Often, joining a support group of new moms or talking with other moms helps.

Postpartum depression (PPD) can happen a few days or even months after childbirth. PPD can happen after the birth of any child, not just the first child. A woman can have feelings similar to the baby blues - sadness, despair, anxiety, irritability - but she feels them much more strongly than she would with the baby blues. PPD often keeps a woman from doing the things she needs to do every day. When a woman's ability to function is affected, this is a sure sign that she needs to see her health care provider right away. If a woman does not get treatment for PPD, symptoms can get worse and last for as long as 1 year. While PPD is a serious condition, it can be treated with medication and counseling.

Postpartum psychosis is a very serious mental illness that can affect new mothers. This illness can happen quickly, often within the first 3 months after childbirth. Women can lose touch with reality, often having auditory hallucinations (hearing things that aren't actually happening, like a person talking) and delusions (seeing things differently from what they are). Visual hallucinations (seeing things that aren't there) are less common. Other symptoms include insomnia (not being able to sleep), feeling agitated (unsettled) and angry, and strange feelings and behaviors. Women who have postpartum psychosis need treatment right away and almost always need medication. Sometimes women are put into the hospital because they are at risk for hurting themselves or someone else.

What are the signs of postpartum depression?

The signs of postpartum depression include:

Feeling restless or irritable.

Feeling sad, depressed or crying a lot.

Having no energy.

Having headaches, chest pains, heart palpitations (the heart being fast and feeling like it is skipping beats), numbness, or hyperventilation (fast and shallow breathing).

Not being able to sleep or being very tired, or both.

Not being able to eat and weight loss.

Overeating and weight gain.

Trouble focusing, remembering, or making decisions.

Being overly worried about the baby.

Not having any interest in the baby.

Feeling worthless and guilty.

Being afraid of hurting the baby or yourself.

No interest or pleasure in activities, including sex.

What causes postpartum depression?

No one knows for sure what causes postpartum depression (PPD). Hormonal changes in a woman's body may trigger its symptoms. During pregnancy, the amount of two female hormones, estrogen and progesterone, in a woman's body increase greatly. In the first 24 hours after childbirth, the amount of these hormones rapidly drops and keeps dropping to the amount they were before the woman became pregnant. Researchers think these changes in hormones may lead to depression, just as smaller changes in hormones can affect a woman's moods before she gets her menstrual period.

Most Lds woman have children back to back, they do not always give there body enough time to level out there hormones, by doing this they can be at a higher risk for PPD. It only takes a small change in a womans hormone levels to set off ppd. So afdaw you are truly on the dot dear.

LaurelTree

[Guest Starsky]

You both are.....

[Faerie]

Now I see why people ignore TR2...

[Tr2]

Starsky,

Glad to hear about your son. Since it is so close to home I'm going to leave it as is. When it comes to medical incidents I usually like to know exactly what happened in each specific case and decide whether or not it was supernatural or the human body doing what it should do. In this case I just hope that you and your son enjoy a long life together.

Oh, and it's "parameDics".

Now I see why people ignore TR2...

As opposed to the one line comments that contribute nothing to a discussion.

[srm]

Originally posted by Snow@Apr 4 2004, 08:07 PM

PS. re. the lady and cancer -- remember what happened last time we looked into supernatural claims of a church that you attended... that God had anointed the mouths of the believers and turned their teeth to gold? Alas it turns out it was only iron pyrite

I had heard about the Gold teeth...tell me more about the fool's gold. When and how was it exposed?

[Tr2]

Some of the gold was real, some wasn't. It's that simple. The problem with it was that so few people actually went to a dentist to have it verified. The one fact that is not debatable is that some forms of metal had ended up in people's mouths where there was none before (but this fact doesn't seem to be important to people).

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 5 2004, 03:34 PM

Some of the gold was real, some wasn't. It's that simple.

Well no.

Here's what the good pastor John Arnott of the Toronto Blessing (TACF - Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship) said this in a press release official statement:

" “GOLD TEETH!” God has begun dental miracles, filling peoples teeth with gold and sprinkling a little x-tra gold dust besides. I have often said not all that glitters is gold, well I’m going to have to admit I may be wrong..."

Some of the gold dust was tested by a University of Toronto geochemist and found to small pieces of plastic film. Some of the teeth were check and no independent confirmation was found that God had "annointed" people mouths with gold in fullfillment of Psalm 81.10: "Open thy mouth wide and I will fill it."

Here's what a writer wrote in Spread the Fire, published by TACF.

"Since the Intercession Conference, March 3-6,1999, where nearly 150 people reported receiving gold fillings or other miraculous changes in their mouths, TACF has contacted all those we could find who had completed pink testimony forms. In addition we were in contact with numerous individuals and churches through email. Here’s what we found.

About one-third of the people we contacted by phone actually went to see their dentist; the rest encountered difficulties such as their dentist had moved away, their records could not be found, they were waiting for an appointment or they simply did not get back to us.

These were the responses from the dentists who were sought for confirmation:

Some dentists were unwilling to comment or responded by saying that their patients’ teeth just looked polished by grinding of teeth or eating something acidic, or they asked if the patient had been elsewhere.

Others found that they already had their gold fillings put in previously by the dentist and had forgotten about it or were not aware of the work that had been done in their mouths.

About 5% found that their dental records conflicted with what appeared in their mouths, but the dentist was skeptical or fearful and simply said that an error must have been made on the records or that the records were too old to be accurate.

About 5% of the dentists were surprised at the changes in their patients’ teeth and were willing to say that a miracle seemed to have occurred. Of this five percent about 1-2% were willing to verify by writing a letter of support for their patient."

In case you are trying to do the math, that's one tenth of one dentist (or less if more than one person had the same dentist) willing to go on the record and in case you need it, I can easily explain how it would be impossible for a dentist to attest that a miracle had occurred.

If you want to learn more, go to google and type in any combination of gold teeth, fake, fraud, Toronto Blessing, cult... and you'll get a bunch of hits... not that I am suggesting that any of this is a fake of course, that's just how you find it on the search engines.

[Faerie]

So...if you're a Christian..and you have cancer..and God doesn't miraculously heal you, but instead you have to suffer and die..does that mean you weren't as favored or as righteous?? I don't get it

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Faerie@Apr 6 2004, 06:33 AM

So...if you're a Christian..and you have cancer..and God doesn't miraculously heal you, but instead you have to suffer and die..does that mean you weren't as favored or as righteous?? I don't get it

No. It means God has His own plan for each of us. Some it is to have miraculous healings, not only for themselves, but for those whose faith will be enlarged through that recovery.

Others it is to pass on, because it is their time. As Paul stated: Acts 17: 26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

[Faerie]

I know Peace..my question was aimed at Tr2 :)

[Lindy]

Originally posted by srm@Apr 3 2004, 08:28 AM

Some women who suffer drom depression don't seek help...they escape into drugs or alcohol. Mormon women don't have that option ergo; they escape into perscription drugs.

WELL, if I had known THAT I would have become depressed a long time ago.....

Silly me, I just absorb myself into music and watch some sports to ease back into normalcy

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Jenda@Apr 2 2004, 06:16 PM

Starsky, every time I see your avatar, I think Tao is posting. Then when I read "I was a stay at home mom ..........." it just blows my mind. This is just getting weirder and weirder.

You find it weird?

I'm having an identity crisis here!

[Guest Starsky]

LOL!

[Guest lt]

Trident,

Depression is NOT normal? nor natural?

quoted from trident

If your religion doesn't help you get past your problems then why is your belief system anything special? You suffer the same bad things as everybody else, in fact you suffer statistically more, and then claim that your religion sets you apart and gets you closer to God. It seems like mormons have more problems than the people that they are above.

Not normal? Trident I think you need to ask somebody in the medical field who is more knowledgiable. I told my Dr about this article and she laughed.........Depression is high in woman because we have children...and the fact that most mormon woman have children back to back, should prove it...Womans hormones jump at high rates before and after pregnancy and make them at a higher risk for depression....It's not just the mormon church either...but most churches keep it hush hush.....

Thanks erin for helping me see the ere....

Laureltree

[Guest lt]

Trident,

let me nip this in the BUTT before you get carried away...ok.

A woman from my church was healed of cancer just last year. Since your church is much truer than mine than you should have plenty of stories like this to tell.

1.) One your church didnt heal this woman...her faith in god did, not her faith in your church.

2.) Just because people are not jumping off roof tops yelling hallelujah doesn't mean we are not seing the lord heal our members....alot of times we take blessings and healings and keep them private, bewteen us and the lord.

Why would you want to shae something so special with someone who would be in disbelief?

3.) The church does have many wonderful news articles that share what they have done for people and other churches all over the world, but none of those make a difference in your book at all.. wonder why?

Laureltree

[Tr2]

You are correct. I need to make myself much clearer. Depression is not natural, but it has become normal in many people. When my wife had our son she was the reason I kept my sanity. I could not have imagined her being any better. Her attitude and joy was natural and authentic. But then again that is the biggest reason I made her my wife.

1.) One your church didnt heal this woman...her faith in god did, not her faith in your church.

I never said my church healed her, because it didn't. My point was that since mormonism is the true church of God, incidents like this should be more abundant in your church if it is God's true church and mine isn't. And I believe there is enough biblical proof for me to state that a person doesn't need to have faith to be healed. If a counterfeit church like mine could do such things, what must the true church be capable of?

Why would you want to shae something so special with someone who would be in disbelief?

I know I am not the only one who has experienced something good in life. What better evangelistic tool can there be than genuine healing? I can't think of something that would enhance a mormon testimony, can you? If you were healed of something, would you not share it with me?

3.) The church does have many wonderful news articles that share what they have done for people and other churches all over the world, but none of those make a difference in your book at all.. wonder why?

Well I have noticed that most mormons don't speak any negative words towards the LDS church. Most refuse to admit that fault exists. I like independent sources because they are unbiased, I prefer that when I hear things that happen in my church too. The one time I heard a story about a woman's leg being healed I personally examined the radiology exams, and had a friend do the same, to verify it.

What are the things you speak of? The missionary program that people are basically manipulated into by thinking that God favors those who do them over those who don't. And yes I have talked to missionaries that actually believe that nonsense-but most missionaries (all religions) are just running away from home anyways.

[Helen Mar Kimball]

If my favorite football team had been shut out, for the first time since 1975, on its home field, by its archrival, who won the conference championship and a bowl bid by doing so; I'd be depressed, too.

[Guest estump]

Actually LT, Depression is IMHO and normal and natural part of being alive. I firmly beleive each and every living person who's lived any length of time has experienced some form of depression at some point in his/her life.

The problem is that we live in a society that believes we must be happy all the stinking time. I think that is hog wash. I think there is a big difference in being peaceful and content, rather than being slap-happy.

Happy is a relative state.

Depression has been around since the get go. It's how we choose to deal with it that makes all the difference.

For some medication coupled w/ counseling works...for others they can exercise and eat healthier as in my own case. It makes the world of difference for me. Others can simply take a bubble bath or long hot shower to help. The point is, is that Depression should not be an ugly word. It simply is a state and a chance for self-growth. It's hard....some have it more rough than others...but the light on the other side is not out of reach.

I think this study is bunk...why...because it is. Non-LDS people get JUST as depressed as LDS people. (and Vice Verca)

[Guest estump]

LT,

I didn't mean to sound as though I was ranting at you. I PROMISE! (I just realized I may have sounded like I was.) I was commenting on the entire thread.

We spoke of this topic on FoftF. I honestly think that LDS women are now just more open about seeking help for depression, whereas they were not in the past. I think it's great women see a need and are doing something about it. I think we need to be proactive in finding contenment and joy in this life. However this study didn't offer enough questions and answers. It was done 10 or so years ago. I don't think it could hurt to do another one when I am sure many more LDS women would be willing to participate. :-)

I had SEVERE PPD w/ each child, except Carolina. I think the reason I didn't w/ her is because she was in NICU and I was able to sleep each night w/ out having to get up. I was far more emotional however w/ her, but on a much different level. W/ my older two, it was horrid. My husband just let me work it out and I saw a counselor a couple of times. I know now sleep deprivation in mother's is a big issue. Many mom's just don't give themselves the permission to sleep or take breaks. People need to be taught skills to better take care of themselves so they can better care for those around them.

I also have many many NON-LDS friends (who make up most of my closest relationships) who are just as depressed. There is a social stigma attached to it and it's stupid. I think religion can play a factor, but only if a person lets it play a factor. LDS women have a choice in how they live their lives. Many women in this world do not have as many choices as we do in the USA. We should feel entirely blessed there are many ways to seek help.

[Guest lt]

erin, its ok.... but you misunderstood what I was saying.... I was asking trident that its not normal?

it looks like I worded it wrong and thats my fault... but thats what I was saying is that it is....and I think if he knows so much about health he would also know that.

I have missed our chats...sure glad you are back.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Starsky+Apr 6 2004, 07:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Starsky @ Apr 6 2004, 07:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Faerie@Apr 6 2004, 06:33 AM

So...if you're a Christian..and you have cancer..and God doesn't miraculously heal you, but instead you have to suffer and die..does that mean you weren't as favored or as righteous?? I don't get it

No. It means God has His own plan for each of us. Some it is to have miraculous healings, not only for themselves, but for those whose faith will be enlarged through that recovery.

Others it is to pass on, because it is their time. As Paul stated: Acts 17: 26

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

starsky--how do you get "god has a plan for all of us" out of your scripture posted? Paul is making a broad statement about nations--where does he mention individuals?