Son Of Man

[Dr T]

So as to not take away from the other thread, here are some thoughts about "Son of Man, The" from net.bible.org

Son of Man, The

[Annabelli]

I can understand the information that you have given Dr. T and it concurs with most basic teaching, true and correct.

I have always wondered about people who are locked in mental asylums because they think that they are God, Abraham, Moses...etc. How do we know that they are not?

[a-train]

'Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.' (Moses 6:57)

Perhaps the significance is that the Father has realized the ultimate circumstance of the human condition and is therefore a perfect Man. 'Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.' (Matt 5:48)

Remember also that Adam possessed immortality in the presence of God when he was first called man. As noted in Dr. T's source, the Saviour's appelation of 'Son of Man' gives us a sense of the humanity of our LORD. Jesus life as a whole demonstrates the amazing potential of man to be perfect as the Father. The Saviour and His title shows not only the condensension of God, but the potential of man's godliness. This name brings to mind the Atonement of God and His children.

-a-train

[Traveler]

It is interesting to me the terms that exist in scripture that are oft used by the religious establishment pretending to know because they have studied. I find in all the study and research that in the end there is little more that speculation as to why Jesus called himself "The Son of Man". Another term often used to which there is much speculation in the religious community is the term "Amen".

I will now add a little sarcasm to this thread - Perhaps someone that has a "personal" relationship with Jesus could just ask him why he uses the term "The Son of Man". I would think that would be better than all the speculation.

Sorry for stepping out of character. But I feel this is another example of how the L-rd's name and title are used in vein.

The Traveler

[Dr T]

I never would have expected that from you Traveler.

[Traveler]

I never would have expected that from you Traveler.

Sorry - I let a wayward spirit get the best of me.

The Traveler

[Doctor Steuss]

"Son of Man" is used to denote a Metatron figure in Enoch, and often in other places. From Ma Barker's "Older Testament":

"If the Enochic tradition was rooted in a royal cult, a great deal of the picture of Jesus begins to fit together very well. He was hailed as a king and a miracle worker, and remembered as a magician with extraordinary powers. The Son of Man figure also occurs in the Christian tradition but is not necassirly directly related to, or derived from, the SImilitues in the Book of Enoch...Enoch himself sees the secrets of heaven, how the kingdoms are divdided and the actions of men weighed. The spirit of wisdom is in the Elect One who stads in the presence of God. A component of this wisdom is the name of the Son of Man, which we have assumed to be the revelation of his identity. It could as easily be read as the revelation of a name, in the magical sense of a power-giving invocation...as the key to the cosmic oath A name in this sense fits well into a context of heavenly secrets and judgement, and the sense of the passages would then be that this name of the Son of Man was a powerful tool in the process of judging evil...The oath is the means of creating order; the sea and the depths are made fast, the sun and moon keep their courses, the winds and weathers obey and all Glorify the Lord of Spirits. This great oath can only be understood in the light of the magical tradition which it most closely resembles, where the oath is the means of binding the fallen spirits who operate through natural phenomenena, in order to make them serve a higher purpose. To be initiated into the oath gives great power; knowing the angelic names enables the initiate to summon and bind the spirtis in his service, by means of the even greater name whose authority he uses."

Also, "Son of Man" is used 94 times in Ezekiel to refer to Ezekien and not Yahweh. IIRC, Geza Vermes (professor emeritus of Jewish studies at Wolfson College, Oxford) thinks that the term "Son of Man" in the Gospels is completely unrelated to the usage in the Hebrew Bible. He believes it originates in Aramaic ("bar nasha").

[Annabelli]

Doctor Steuss:

"Son of Man" is used to denote a Metatron figure in Enoch.

What is a metatron figure?

[Doctor Steuss]

Doctor Steuss:

"Son of Man" is used to denote a Metatron figure in Enoch.

What is a metatron figure?

Essentially, Metatron is a "lesser YHWH."

Here's the wiki entry on "Metatron."

[a-train]

And I thought Metatron was a new Transformer.

-a-train

[Traveler]

One very important notion that one runs into as they study such things is that when we follow all the information that is available down to the very end we find that we really do not have a complete understanding. Without question something is missing. Anciently things were known that just are not understood in our modern society.

I am convinced that any amount of study will not end the speculation just embolden certain individuals in their speculation. For me - the sad part to all this is that some will not admit that we do not have enough understanding to say we really understand. In the past as I have gotten to this point, some have smugly declared - "So what does this have to do with my salvation?"

The answer is both simple and important - We are talking about notions used and taught by Jesus Christ - because we are ignorant and unknowing we speculate we are not affected. But if someone else is unknowing of something we think we know - we think we have an advantage before G-d over them. I am concerned that this kind of speculation does impact our salvation - and not in a good way.

The Traveler