The Martyrdom Of Joseph Smith

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>As I recall Dostoevsky supposedly had somethings to say on the matter.

It was Tolstoy.

The Mormon people teach the American religion; their principles teach the people not only of Heaven and its attendant glories, but how to live so that their social and economic relations with each other are placed on a sound basis. If the people follow the teachings of this Church, nothing can stop their progress--it will be limitless. There have been great movements started in the past but they have died or been modified before they reached maturity. If Mormonism is able to endure, unmodified, until it reaches the third and fourth generations, it is destined to become the greatest power the world has ever known."

– Count Leo Tolstoi, quoted in A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p 435–36

Thank you for the correction. I was hesitant when I posted it because I couldn't recall exactly what he said. I understand that some people question whether Tolstoy really said what was attributed to him.

Dostoevsky wrote a story that alluded to theodicy - In Brother's Karamazov I think but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

In addition, I'm still waiting for your reference regarding:

"Pope Gregory XVI in particular addressed issues on both the American LDS Church and Joseph Smith and the Persia Bahai Faith and Baha'ullah," from your previous posts.

Thanks,

Elphaba

What happens if you wait too long? Do you turn blue?

[roman]

Then of course there are plenty of people who don't believe that the word martyrdom applies to JS, but that II Peter 2:1 should and probably does.

[Elphaba]

Thank you for the correction. I was hesitant when I posted it because I couldn't recall exactly what he said. I understand that some people question whether Tolstoy really said what was attributed to him.

Dostoevsky wrote a story that alluded to theodicy - In Brother's Karamazov I think but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

You're welcome.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

My point is that LDS Members who believe that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God cannot set limitations on the Restoration of the gospel or the Church. Nor can we set limitations regarding his assassination.

I appreciate you defining your point above.

However, I fail to see how your claim written below has anything to do with your point. So, again, I am asking, what did you mean when you wrote it, and are you now retracting it? :

"Pope Gregory XVI in particular addressed issues on both the American LDS Church and Joseph Smith and the Persia Bahai Faith and Baha'ullah."

Additionally, your original point when you first wrote this was that the LDS Church was known around the world at the time of Pope Gregory. Are you retracting that statement as well or not?

The reason I am so insistent about this is that your statement either happened or it didn't. If you're going to make such a claim you need to back it up with a reference. Additionally, if this Pople never really said this, then you need to admit that.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

Then of course there are plenty of people who don't believe that the word martyrdom applies to JS, but that II Peter 2:1 should and probably does.

I guess it would be safe to assume that "the plenty of people you mention" are not LDS ??? I can go to the First Baptist Church here in my small town and find a whole congregation that feels the way you do.

[pam]

<div class='quotemain'>

Then of course there are plenty of people who don't believe that the word martyrdom applies to JS, but that II Peter 2:1 should and probably does.

I guess it would be safe to assume that "the plenty of people you mention" are not LDS ??? I can go to the First Baptist Church here in my small town and find a whole congregation that feels the way you do.

I agree Pale. It woud have to be non lds that believe this. Anyone else would have though him to be just some fanatical person. That religion was not really behind this. That he was the leader of a "cult" and not a religious sect. As a disclaimer: Might I add that not ALL non lds believe this. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't offending some of our non lds posters.

[roman]

I take no offence from anyone about my comment. I just wanted to throw out the fact that many people feel that way towards JS---and your right, all that I know that feel that way are nonlds

[Palerider]

I take no offence from anyone about my comment. I just wanted to throw out the fact that many people feel that way towards JS---and your right, all that I know that feel that way are nonlds

I don't believe anyone was offended..... :)

[Annabelli]

Many Saints who immigrated into America during this time brought wealth with them as did other settlers to the area. Some of those settlers migrating especially from the southern states/territories desired to build up a status of monarchy/royalty.

The Saints were able to afford land, livestock, food, clothing, etc. Their losses in Missouri were significant and created much frustration/tension and conflicts. It was not just the number of Saints that brought concern. The Saints were not looking for a "hand out."

The handcarts designed by the Saints was not done so because of poverty. With the Gold Rush in California, there was a shortage of horses, oxen, wagons, etc. So determined Saints built handcarts. As the railroad was being built, it also provided a means of transportation for the Saints.

People coming into the LDS Church today who have lost the financial battle are not looking for a "hand out." They are most certainly saying "I tried it my way and it did not work out." "Now I am going to try the way of the Lord."