Dog-Eat-Dog World

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

Now, back to the poverty thing.  Remember your first post?  At first, I thought you were just denouncing the "dog-eat-dog" mentality we see so readily in the world today.  That is, after all, the title of this thread.

It's a clear and obvious sign that someone is jealous of others who have more then they do. 

[clbent04]

48 minutes ago, Grunt said:

What is my unfounded bias?  I already responded that I don’t have an unfounded bias.  I do, however, believe you don’t answer the queations because those answers are the answers to your questions.  

 

On 1/1/2018 at 7:39 PM, Grunt said:

My intent for posting is to participate in a conversation.  While you may find no value in my posts, others reading this may.   I don't hold any disillusion that you could be helped by me, nor that you actually want help here.  There's an ignore option if you decide you don't want to read my posts.

And around and around we go...

Edited January 3, 2018 by clbent04

[Grunt]

17 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

 

And around and around we go...

I’m fairly confident that is your goal.  

[clbent04]

13 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I’m fairly confident that is your goal.  

Job 15:6 "Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I..."

Edited January 3, 2018 by clbent04

[Grunt]

Just now, clbent04 said:

Job 15:6 "Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I..."

Fitting

[Grunt]

Dupe

Edited January 3, 2018 by Grunt

[SilentOne]

In the hopes that a third party can help this conflict between @Grunt and @clbent04 that I now do not believe they will resolve themselves:

It looked to me that Grunt was making some general observations that clbent took as being about himself.

On 12/31/2017 at 12:33 PM, Grunt said:

In reality, we recognize that many people choose to be miserable and blame someone else.  We choose to be happy, make choices that lead to that happiness, and avoid people who make a choice to have a negative view of the world.  That way we can recognize that some people just choose to be miserable and focus on expanding our circles by helping people that truly desire to change.  The world has no shortage of people who need help.  Some desire change and work towards facilitating it.  Some of you just wallow in self-pity, content to blame everyone else and continue to make bad choices.  

Sadly, I have a finite amount of time.  As such, I can't help everyone.  I choose to help those who truly desire improvement and work towards it.  If by some miracle all those people are helped, I'll start adding those who choose misery to my help list.

 

On 1/1/2018 at 5:40 PM, clbent04 said:

I’m asking you if that’s how you view me since you posted it on this thread along with other comments you made to me in the past.

From the bolded, I would infer that since Grunt has been posting on this thread, trying to help, he at least originally deemed clbent as desiring and working towards improvement. Now Grunt believes he can't help clbent , and that clbent possibly does not want his help, because clbent isn't answering the questions Grunt asked in order to help. Is that an accurate interpretation?

Edited January 3, 2018 by SilentOne
punctuation

[Guest]

3 hours ago, clbent04 said:

And around and around we go...

If you believe Grunt's interpretation of your posts to be false, then answer my question.  Compare what your original question was to what you're now saying.  Nothing has changed.  And your conclusion (that is somehow making you happy to have found it) has nothing to do with the original question.  So, what exactly are you hoping to accomplish?  What do you feel you have accomplished?

[clbent04]

 

6 hours ago, SilentOne said:

From the bolded, I would infer that since Grunt has been posting on this thread, trying to help, he at least originally deemed clbent as desiring and working towards improvement. Now Grunt believes he can't help clbent , and that clbent possibly does not want his help, because clbent isn't answering the questions Grunt asked in order to help. Is that an accurate interpretation?

I acknowledged @Grunt 's "misery" comment wasn't in direct response to something I posted, but I wanted clarification from Grunt himself if that's how he viewed me too since that comment agreed with other negative comments he's made to me in the past.  Grunt has had a misconstrued perception of me every since I joined this website, and I don't understand why. 

He's questioned me several times what the intent is of my posting rather than just help answer a question I find interesting or important to me, and wrongly accused me of things like I'm just seeking attention and not really wanting to improve. Why does Grunt continually question my motive? Just give people the benefit of the doubt. Not that hard. 

Quote

Sadly, I have a finite amount of time.  As such, I can't help everyone.  I choose to help those who truly desire improvement and work towards it.  If by some miracle all those people are helped, I'll start adding those who choose misery to my help list.

Grunt by his own admission said he's not posting on my questions to help me personally. So why post at all one might ask? Especially when Grunt has postured himself as this helpful guy? Is it to help other people besides me who might have the same exact question? So why help them and give them the benefit of the doubt with their questioning but not me? Doesn't make sense. And who wants "help" anyway from someone you already know has a jaded view of you? Why does Grunt think I want to answer his questions after he's been negative and judgmental of me? 

Quote

I don't hold any disillusion that you could be helped by me, nor that you actually want help here.

Earlier in the thread, I informed Grunt that due his collective negative comments he's made to me in the past, I'd prefer if he didn't post on my questions anymore to avoid further contention between us.  He chose to ignore this request, as is his right since this is a public forum, so I guess contention it is.  Seems like there's enough topics on this website to where we could steer clear of each other, but I guess not.  I don't really post anywhere but on my own threads so seems like it would be easy for us to avoid each other if he wanted. 

I normally wouldn't even bother with addressing negative comments from someone like Grunt, but I thought maybe I could appeal to the side of him that likes to "help" people, especially when I told him his "help" is not helpful to me, and I don't find any value with what he has to say. And not saying he hasn't helped others. I see he posts quite frequently. Great for the people to whom he gives the benefit of doubt, and who can tell he has a genuine interest in helping.

My view of this website is it's meant to be a positive place to share topics surrounding the Mormon religion. I have chosen to disclose personal experience and questions I seek answers to, or even thoughts where I am seeking perspective from other members for the purpose of elevating my own thinking. This is my honest intent which I have repeated several times to Grunt. 

So with any public forum, you just got to take the bad with the good. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by clbent04

[clbent04]

 

9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Actually, it IS a commandment for all young men to serve a mission when of age.

But back on point, ANY commandment is for "those who are ready."  We're all required to obtain our endowments "when ready."  In fact, it is so much a requirement that we have vicarious ordinances for the dead.  It is as vital as being baptized.  But we are simply not allowed to go to the temple until we are ready.

So, when you say "some of the most noble among us" will take this path, how is that different than the "goal" we should all be striving for?

Now, back to the poverty thing.  Remember your first post?  At first, I thought you were just denouncing the "dog-eat-dog" mentality we see so readily in the world today.  That is, after all, the title of this thread.  But then you seemed to be saying that just because we work to build wealth that necessarily means that we have a dog-eat-dog mentality.  This has nothing to do with the homeless missionary thing.  

I'm not complaining that you've changed the topic.  I'm just wondering how you felt your original question was answered when it has nothing to do with this.

I don't know if being a homeless, traveling missionary should be a goal for all of us, but it's a righteous endeavor for anyone ready and willing.  There is more than one life's journey back to the Kingdom of God, be it you spent your time as a parent raising your kids to the ways of God, you were a lifelong, full-time missionary, or you held strong to the end in a non-religious affiliated career but were a righteous steward with what you were given.

For those ready and willing to be homeless, traveling missionaries, I believe their treasure in Heaven will be more secured for them than it is for others who have to deal with the temptations of putting too much focus on possessions and wealth.

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

As for the homeless, traveling missionary tangent I got started on, I first focused this thread on how this world is a dog-eat-dog world because we have the need to survive and subsequently use the greater portion of our time and resources on ourselves and our own little empires, not on someone else.  This has me down as I would like to live in a world where we are more prone to sharing, a world where we loved our neighbors more, a world where we didn't focus the majority of our time to sustain and build our own little empires. 

It was what you said to me that got me thinking how loving myself might even be a necessary precursor to loving my neighbor.  Then I asked why I don't love myself?  And it's because of the very reason I despise the selfishness of this world.  I contribute to that selfishness by focusing primarily on myself and my own little empire with the limited time and resources that I have. So then I took it to the next level asking myself what I would need to do to love myself. And the answer came that I would be a homeless, traveling missionary, someone who is completely removed from the material things of the world, and strictly focuses on others and furthering the work of the Lord. 

Granted, I've already made the disclaimer that I'm nowhere close to being personally ready and willing to accept such a call. I still have too many vices that would prove me ineffective as a missionary.  But to love myself, I feel as if I need to remove myself from my current situation of having my energy and efforts primarily focused on the benefit of my own household.

On 12/31/2017 at 9:11 AM, Carborendum said:

@clbent04,

I've spent some time thinking about what may be giving you such trouble with "the rat race."  I'd ask you to consider my previous question again:  What is the 2nd commandment?  Hint:  It is NOT: Love they neighbor.

The 2nd commandment is "Love they neighbor AS THYSELF." 

If you don't have love for yourself or acknowledge your own self-worth in the eyes of God, then you can never fully love others.  I'd go so far as to say that your feeling of self-worth is a precursor to loving your neighbor. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by clbent04

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

 

This has me down as I would like to live in a world where we are more prone to sharing, a world where we loved our neighbors more, a world where we didn't focus the majority of our time to sustain and build our own little empires. 

 

"Every man wants to change the world. No man wants to change himself."-Leo Tolstoy 

[zil]

22 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I contribute to that selfishness by focusing primarily on myself and my own little empire with the limited time and resources that I have.

Do you not realize that this is at least as much a mental state as a financial one?

23 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

And the answer came that I would be a homeless, traveling missionary, someone who is completely removed from the material things of the world, and strictly focuses on others and furthering the work of the Lord.

I'm reminded of that scene in The Sound of Music when Maria flees back to the abbey, and the Mother Superior tells her the abbey and the calling to be a nun wasn't so she could hide from her problems.  IMO, you need to fix your attitude before you start trying to fix your circumstances or the attitude will just follow you and corrupt the new circumstances the same as the old.

25 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

asking myself

Maybe ask God instead.

26 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

But to love myself, I feel as if I need to remove myself from my current situation of having my energy and efforts primarily focused on the benefit of my own household.

Have you considered starting with something smaller, like going to church, accepting a calling, volunteering for a charity, small acts of service for the people with whom you interact every day (which might be the best one at all for the problems you've described)?  Check out https://www.justserve.org/

27 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Granted, I've already made the disclaimer that I'm nowhere close to being personally ready and willing to accept such a call. I still have too many vices that would prove me ineffective as a missionary.

Maybe you should take a week off work, or just a long weekend, and go experiment.  Plan it out and make it as real as you can.  You'll have the option of going back home any time you want.  I expect you would learn a lot.  Experience is the great educator.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

.  IMO, you need to fix your attitude before you start trying to fix your circumstances or the attitude will just follow you and corrupt the new circumstances the same as the old.

Amen @zil. I think all of us have seen people end a relationship or a job, move a long distance or make another drastic life change because they think it'll fix their problems. In reality, you are exactly right. Only you can fix your attitude and the way you view the world. 

The much better option is to accept that you can't change the world no matter how hard you try, so you need to adapt to what the world is rather than what you wish it to be. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by MormonGator

[zil]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Amen @zil. I think all of us have seen people end a relationship or a job, move a long distance or make another drastic life change because they think it'll fix their problems. In reality, you are exactly right. Only you can fix your attitude and the way you view the world. 

The much better option is to accept that you can't change the world no matter how hard you try, so you need to adapt to what the world is rather than what you wish it to be. 

I think many (most? all?) of us have tried doing this at some point and realized it doesn't work out.  Perception problems are always internal - what you're looking at may be external, but how you see it is entirely internal.

[clbent04]

9 minutes ago, zil said:

I think many (most? all?) of us have tried doing this at some point and realized it doesn't work out.  Perception problems are always internal - what you're looking at may be external, but how you see it is entirely internal.

Is it perception that survival in this life requires us to spend the greater portion of our time and resources on our own households, and not on others?

That’s not perception. It’s reality. Out of the 1,000 or however many people I personally know, maybe 2 at best are using the greater portion of their time and resources on others outside their own household. 

So how do I change the way I see the world when the problem I see with it is factual?

[zil]

6 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Is it perception that survival in this life requires us to spend the greater portion of our time and resources on our own households, and not on others?

That’s not perception. It’s reality. Out of the 1,000 or however many people I personally know, maybe 2 at best are using the greater portion of their time and resources on others outside their own household. 

So how do I change the way I see the world when the problem I see with it is factual?

Erm, unless your "household" is just you, the members of your household are a subset of "others".  You choose how much you focus on material goods.  You don't get to control whether other people focus on material goods, and therefore you should not give other people's focus power over you.

You change how you see the world when you choose to think different thoughts, feel different feelings, speak different words, and do different deeds.  You're fighting that idea like your life depended on it, but I submit that your life may well depend on not fighting it, on claiming responsibility for you and letting others have responsibility for themselves.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I don't know if being a homeless, traveling missionary should be a goal for all of us, but it's a righteous endeavor for anyone ready and willing. 

You do realize just how useless one would be as a homeless missionary, right?  As an example, I'll tell the story of a friend of mine when he was a project manager in Northern Russia.

He got to this site and lived in what is known as a "man-camp."  What this means is that each person has about a 10' x 12' box to sleep, cook, and eat.  Communal bathrooms were the norm.  His first day was spent getting a fire going because he woke up with frost on his hair and eyebrows (notice this was indoors).  It took a couple hours to get the fire going, cook his food, and get ready to eat.  Then it took more time to keep the fire going enough to get ready for the day.  Then he had to actually get ready for work.  By this time, it was about 10 am. 

He did about an hour's worth of work and realized everyone left so they could start their fires for lunch.  Believing this to be wise, he got back to his unit and finished along with everyone else at about 3:30 in the afternoon.  He got about an hour's worth of work done and it was time to get ready for dinner.  He got another hour's worth of work done after dinner before he had to get a large enough fire going for bedtime. 

Then he had to do it all over again.

After a couple of days, he had to do his laundry.  He didn't get any work done that day.

He finally got a call from his managers and he told them that explained how much effort he was making just to stay alive.  So much time was being used up so that he barely got any work done.  He mentioned that he's happy to do it if they're ok with the level of work he's doing for the salary he's getting paid.  But he'd be much more efficient if someone else were in charge of the day-to-day maintenance and he could just worry about getting the work done.  

They made some arrangements and he found he was getting a full 12 hour day of work in every day.

You may be thinking that his only trouble was with the cold.  Maybe.  But EVERY environment has its challenges.  I only used his case as a VIVID example.  If you actually tried being a homeless missionary, you'd be absolutely SHOCKED how much time you'd have to spend just getting food to eat.  Then you wouldn't have enough time to actually preach. 

When Alma was starving, he went to Amulek (by all accounts, a wealthy man) to feed him.  SOMEONE had to have the money to feed them.  Alma didn't have it.  What would have happend if Amulek (obviously one who was willing to give up all for the Lord) had given away all he had and became homeless?  He never would have fed Alma.

Do you really think this is how the City of Enoch was?  So, EVERYONE was a homeless missionary?  Yes, I know, you said that it's not for everyone.  But you ALSO said it was only for those ready and willing.  The entire city was translated.  Do you think they weren't ready and willing?

No, there were some who HAD to take care of making food.  Some who HAD to take care of making clothing, making homes to live in, making tools for everyone else to use in their endeavors...  on and on...  So, those guys were not ready and willing to be homeless missionaries?

In other words, they were WILLING to give up everything.  But their calling was to be the people who supported those who worked full time in the ministry.  In one way or another, that is how it has to be.  Most of us are called to be part time self supporting and part-time ministers.

7 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Is it perception that survival in this life requires us to spend the greater portion of our time and resources on our own households, and not on others?

That’s not perception. It’s reality. Out of the 1,000 or however many people I personally know, maybe 2 at best are using the greater portion of their time and resources on others outside their own household. 

That actually IS perception and NOT reality.  Every time I go to Church I see people who spend a majority of their non-working hours to the work of the ministry.  You say you know 1000 people?  How many do you think I've gotten to know?  I'm a whole lot older than you and a whole lot more well traveled.  I believe this is a case where I'm justified in playing the age card and the experience card.  I'd estimate that those you count in your 1000 would be roughly equivalent to the 20 or 30 thousand I've known.  And I've known wealthy, poor, and middle class alike.  There are plenty who go home and do nothing but eat, play, and sleep.  But the great majority are doing some good for others, not just their own home.

While I can certainly see why you would get the idea that many are just in their own world.  I highly doubt that the number of these "selfless" people is only 2 out of 1000.  Do you really feel justified in being able to judge them in their hours away from you?  How would you?  How could you?

Perhaps the problem is not with the world, but the ease with which you judge others to be so selfish.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Perhaps the problem is not with the world, but the ease with which you judge others to be so selfish.

Something important to remember is that you also don't know how a person spends their money. For all you know, who you think is a selfish, greedy miser donates huge amounts of money to charities. 
 

[Grunt]

3 hours ago, clbent04 said:

 

I acknowledged @Grunt 's "misery" comment wasn't in direct response to something I posted, but I wanted clarification from Grunt himself if that's how he viewed me too since that comment agreed with other negative comments he's made to me in the past.  Grunt has had a misconstrued perception of me every since I joined this website, and I don't understand why. 

You perceive, but you don't know.  You misapplied a comment I made to yourself and I'm unsure why.  It wasn't directed at you.  It wasn't in response to you.  It wasn't on a topic that I perceived to have anything to do with you.

He's questioned me several times what the intent is of my posting rather than just help answer a question I find interesting or important to me, and wrongly accused me of things like I'm just seeking attention and not really wanting to improve. Why does Grunt continually question my motive? Just give people the benefit of the doubt. Not that hard. 

What is your motive?  It plays directly into how I answer your question.  Are you saying you really want to improve?  The questions I asked move to directly establish that.  You chose not to answer them, which leaves the implication that the answer would not be a positive one.  That would cause me to answer the question much differently than if you had already accomplished those things.

Grunt by his own admission said he's not posting on my questions to help me personally. So why post at all one might ask? Especially when Grunt has postured himself as this helpful guy? Is it to help other people besides me who might have the same exact question? So why help them and give them the benefit of the doubt with their questioning but not me? Doesn't make sense. And who wants "help" anyway from someone you already know has a jaded view of you? Why does Grunt think I want to answer his questions after he's been negative and judgmental of me? 

It's not all about you.  Based on my response above, I DO question whether you really want help, whether you want bias confirmation, or whether you're looking to justify bad behavior.  I provide opinions and answers 

Earlier in the thread, I informed Grunt that due his collective negative comments he's made to me in the past, I'd prefer if he didn't post on my questions anymore to avoid further contention between us.  He chose to ignore this request, as is his right since this is a public forum, so I guess contention it is.  Seems like there's enough topics on this website to where we could steer clear of each other, but I guess not.  I don't really post anywhere but on my own threads so seems like it would be easy for us to avoid each other if he wanted. 

Again, if it truly bothered you, the ignore button would have been pushed.  Do you like to create drama?  Are you just fishing for answers you want to hear?  My motives on this forum since the day I joined have been pure.  I welcome PMs, or posts, from MODS and ADMIN who would like to correct my behavior if it is destructive.

I normally wouldn't even bother with addressing negative comments from someone like Grunt, but I thought maybe I could appeal to the side of him that likes to "help" people, especially when I told him his "help" is not helpful to me, and I don't find any value with what he has to say. And not saying he hasn't helped others. I see he posts quite frequently. Great for the people to whom he gives the benefit of doubt, and who can tell he has a genuine interest in helping.

Why do you think it's different with you?  Of all the people on the forum, why do YOU feel your treatment is different, or my responses are less applicable?

My view of this website is it's meant to be a positive place to share topics surrounding the Mormon religion. I have chosen to disclose personal experience and questions I seek answers to, or even thoughts where I am seeking perspective from other members for the purpose of elevating my own thinking. This is my honest intent which I have repeated several times to Grunt. 

Do you feel your posts and respsonses are positive?  What are you trying to elevate?  Do you believe you should learn to walk before you run?  Do you think questioning God's nature, or worldly interactions, are going to help you with ANY of the bad behavior you exhibit?

So with any public forum, you just got to take the bad with the good. 

Perhaps your view of bad and good is skewed? Maybe a little glance in the mirror would help you?I

 

 

[Grunt]

50 minutes ago, zil said:

 

Have you considered starting with something smaller, like going to church, accepting a calling, volunteering for a charity, small acts of service for the people with whom you interact every day (which might be the best one at all for the problems you've described)?  Check out https://www.justserve.org/

 

 

This is EXACTLY what I was getting at.

[clbent04]

45 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

That actually IS perception and NOT reality.  Every time I go to Church I see people who spend a majority of their non-working hours to the work of the ministry.  

Perhaps the problem is not with the world, but the ease with which you judge others to be so selfish.

Good examples with your friend in Russia, and Amulek supporting Alma.

Maybe I do need to change my threshold of what I consider selfish like you did here. I said we should focus the majority of our time and resources on others, while you changed it to using the majority of our non-working hours to the work of the ministry.  

But couldn’t God have created this world where the majority of our time isn’t spent on survival, and sustaining and building our own households? Why does the format of this life naturally force us to spend most of our time on our own households rather than integrating with the rest of our spirit brothers and sisters here on Earth? Why is the format the way it is?

Why do we only have so much discretionary time to interact and integrate with others outside our own households?

Edited January 4, 2018 by clbent04

[zil]

16 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

But couldn’t God have created this world where the majority of our time isn’t spent on survival, and sustaining and building our own households? Why does the format of this life naturally force us to spend most of our time on our own households rather than integrating with the rest of our spirit brothers and sisters here on Earth? Why is the format the way it is?

Couldn't God have created us so we didn't have to waste 8 hours sleeping, and more hours taking care of this body that has to be cleaned and vacated and filed and brushed and shaved and clothed and fed and kept warm and treated for ailments?  Wouldn't we all be so much more effective if we could leap tall buildings in a single bound?

Apparently, mortality is important to our learning experience.  The Lord told Adam that he would eat by the sweat of his brow.  Apparently, the need to work and eat and all that other stuff is important enough that it can't be skipped over (by most of us).  I'd settle for not having to file my nails, or cut my hair, or wear glasses (there, just ruined everyone's imaginary vision of me).

Personally, I'm left to assume that this is the best way for us to learn the things we need to learn.  Nothing else makes sense, given what we know of God - namely, that his work and glory are to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Edited January 4, 2018 by zil

[clbent04]

2 minutes ago, zil said:

Couldn't God have created us so we didn't have to waste 8 hours sleeping, and more hours taking care of this body that has to be cleaned and vacated and filed and brushed and shaved and clothed and fed and kept warm and treated for ailments.  Wouldn't we all be so much more effective if we could leap tall buildings in a single bound?

Apparently, mortality is important to our learning experience.  The Lord told Adam that he would eat by the sweat of his brow.  Apparently, the need to work and eat and all that other stuff is important enough that it can't be skipped over (by most of us).  I'd settle for not having to file my nails, or cut my hair, or wear glasses (there, just ruined everyone's imaginary vision of me).

Personally, I'm left to assume that this is the best way for us to learn the things we need to learn.  Nothing else makes sense, given what we know of God - namely, that his work and glory are to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

But why is it the best way for us to learn? Do you think the amount of time it takes us to survive is to help us appreciate even more how we use our discretionary time, and to make our discretionary that much more meaningful when used in serving the Lord?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

But couldn’t God have created this world where

Couldn't God have created...?  Yeah, we hear that question a lot from people who already believe their wisdom is greater than God's.  Yup.  Really humble.

By the sweat of our brow...

I take it from your question that you don't see the wisdom of this condition.  Let me ask you, did your parents make you do chores at home?  Why?  There are multiple reasons why.  And all of them valid.  But one major reason is the same reason God created this world where we really have to work for our daily bread.

[zil]

8 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

But why is it the best way for us to learn? Do you think the amount of time it takes us to survive is to help us appreciate even more how we use our discretionary time, and to make our discretionary that much more meaningful when used in serving the Lord?

I think there are several reasons.  I think you could come up with most of the same reasons I could, if you sat and thought for a while:

1) People who don't have to work for things tend to take them for granted, treat them badly, be lazy, demand things of others, not want to give or serve, etc.

2) Think of just how much trouble we'd get into if we could literally go wherever we wanted whenever we wanted without worrying about staying warm, safe, or fed.  What would keeps us together supporting one another?

3) How would we know what "productive" or "useful" meant if everything were handed to us on a silver platter?  (Opposition in all things, don't you know.)

4) Do you know how you build muscle mass?  Resistance.  Resistance builds strength.  We need resistance - something that requires us to put forth effort in order to have the things we desire.

5) Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion, Chapter 3: Zeal without Knowledge, speaking of the limitation that mortal man can only think of one thing at a time, whereas God's mind is capable of infinite thoughts at a time:

Quote

But why this crippling limitation on our thoughts if we are God’s children? It is precisely this limitation that is the essence of our mortal existence. If every choice I make expresses a preference, if the world I build up is the world I really love and want, then with every choice I am judging myself, proclaiming all the day long to God, angels, and my fellowmen where my real values lie, where my treasure is, the things to which I give supreme importance. Hence, in this life every moment provides a perfect and foolproof test of your real character, making this life a time of testing and probation.

Only in a world where we have opposition, free from the overwhelming presence of God, can we choose what we really want.

6) Etc. etc.

Edited January 4, 2018 by zil