We need a testimony of the Gospel and we need to bear that testimony

[Guest]

Are ordinances required for salvation?  Let's see. 

Is being born required for salvation?  Yes?  Oh, so salvation comes at the hands of our parents, not at the hands of God?

Is it required that we hear the words of Christ to have faith on him to gain salvation?  Yes?  Oh, so our salvation comes at the hands of some missionaries or ministers, not God?

Can we be saved if we have no intention of stopping any of our sins?  No?  So, we need to repent?  No?  So, what exactly are you saying?  You don't need to repent, but you can't be saved i you have no intention of forsaking any sins?

There are certain things that need to be in place for you to even be able to claim grace.  Being born is obviously one of them.  We also believe that certain ordinances must also be in place.  Having the ordinances are not what save us.  None of these things save us.  They are what is required for us to even recognize that wondrous gift that is the Atonement.

They are what make us reconciled to God and put us in a position to be able to take of his grace.

[theplains]

On 9/20/2018 at 7:47 PM, Vort said:

Why are the two mutually exclusive?

What exactly do you suppose it means to exercise faith if not to deny oneself of ungodliness, Jim? Hold your hands up and shout, "Lord, I be-LIEEEEEVE!!!"? You might want to review Matthew 7:21 before preaching this nonsensical pseudo-Christian shahada.

I believe we are saved by faith before anything we can do, not after.  It is not of works, less any man has a reason to
boast.  If you believe Moroni 10:32, then grace is only sufficient for you if you deny yourself of all ungodliness (which I
doubt you are able to do because you are not sinless).  It's not a matter of I do my part and Jesus makes up for the
difference.  As in the Old Testament, Abraham was justified by faith, not by his works.

Jim

[theplains]

On 9/20/2018 at 9:09 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

Faith IS all we can do. It's the same principle.

Edit: I see @Vort beat me to the thought.

Don't you mean all you 'must do?'    The commandments are not conditional based on our ability.

Jim

[Vort]

1. Quit ignoring what we're saying in order to preach your own nonsense. At least address what is being said.

2. Your antiMormonism is unwelcome on MormonHub, and more specifically on the LDS Doctrine forum.

[The Folk Prophet]

14 minutes ago, theplains said:

Don't you mean all you 'must do?'    The commandments are not conditional based on our ability.

Jim

Why yes, in english meaning in words like that can be interchanged at times.