Pigeon Card Scam

Annabelli · December 27, 2007

With all the electronic equipment, it is very hard to pass an insufficient check on your bank. The days of writing a check the night before payday is gone. The day of beating your check to the bank is also gone. As is a lot of other money juggling strategy.

Now there is a credit card scam. I don't understand how it works. Apparently people need cash. I am highly offended that I am being "used" by these people.

I have been involved where someone suggest that we go out to lunch as a group and it's under the impression that we are paying for our meal. When we get to the restaurant, the group leader tells the waitress/waiter to put it all on one bill and will pay it with their credit card. We just give that person our cash and all is fine. Come to find out, that person is simply pocketing our money and calling in a lost/stolen credit card after paying the bill.

People are inviting kids over for a $5 pizza party and when the delivery arrives...out comes the credit card!

We were planning to have a catered rehersal dinner when someone suggested that we just go to a restaurant instead. While we were finishing desert, everyone started passing money to the guy who ordered "the bill." There was more than enough money to cover the bill and leave a nice tip then out came the credit card!

These people do not travel and are not trying to acquire frequent flyer miles. They are simply ripping off the credit card company and us.

And no, I do not want to go shopping with people who want to put it on their credit card and I give them cash.

I generally carry only a bank card and they embarass me when I do not have cash as if I couldn't pay my bill! The lady paying with her credit card at the restaurant made such a scene that we stopped at an ATM and I gave her $20 for my $6 lunch!

I don't know of any fortunate way of dealing with these people and it seems to be a growing trend. I guess I will just ignore them/avoid them. So many people are doing it that it's kind of scary as to how far they will go. I'm just not going to be as generous about inviting people into my home anymore either.

What are your thoughts about people doing this? We have a few threads about the beggars but what about these robbers?

miztrniceguy · December 27, 2007

insist that you will pay for your own and wish a seperate bill. you have that right, and the resaraunt should not give you any kind of hassle. explain that you never carry cash either.

besides...how do you "know" they are disputing the bill...do you work for their credit card company?

Brother Dorsey · December 27, 2007

insist that you will pay for your own and wish a seperate bill. you have that right, and the resaraunt should not give you any kind of hassle. explain that you never carry cash either.
besides...how do you "know" they are disputing the bill...do you work for their credit card company?

Sometimes me and a few of the guys from work will cruise Wendy's for some burgers at lunch and I hardly ever carry cash....well, they won't let you do more than one order through the drive through so I usually pay with my credit card and the others pay me their part of the bill in cash....works for us!

pushka · December 27, 2007

I'm sorry that you're being ripped off in this way Annabelli, and I wonder too, how you know that these people are calling in that their cards have been stolen afterwards too?

I sometimes ask my family or very close friends to help me purchase items online using their credit cards, and I pay them the cash to cover this...most of the time I place that cash into their bank accounts instead of just handing it over to them...I have no idea whether they then inform the company that they have lost their card or had it stolen...at least I have paid for the item I've purchased, I haven't had to pay more.

I would suggest you do as miztrniceguy stated, and pay your bill separately and explain to anybody who enquires, that you never carry cash for safety's sake.

Elphaba · December 27, 2007

If a person complains about his credit card charge often, especially for the same thing each time, in this case restaurant charges, the company would soon catch on and stop taking the complaints. Even if the person has numerous cards, he would only be able to complain a few times with each card before the company would question and stop taking the complaints. I can even see the companies cancelling the cards.

I don't see how this is a very lucrative scheme.

Elphaba

a-train · December 28, 2007

The victim of the scheme is NOT the credit card company or the bank. It is the restaurant. This is how it works:

They sign a fake signature on the slip(s).

Usually they do several of these adding up to a large sum of money within 24 hours.

They claim their card stolen and list the charges as fraudulent. The businesses usually have 14 days to deliver the signed receipt to the merchant service provider who ultimately delivers it to the bank or credit card company. When the signature doesn't match, the money is taken from the business and a fee (usually around $50) is charged also for not properly varifying the signature. The consumer gets their money back.

This scam happens ALL the time. They can go from bank, to bank, to bank doing this scheme with debit cards. They do it at bigger businesses and try to get younger, less experienced cashiers or waiters to tend them.

Places like Walmart and Target get this all the time. How do they cope with it? They charge more. We all pay for it.

A couple of years ago, the Feds changed some of the laws on this so that smaller transactions can't be handled this way, I think it is now $25 or less. If you have noticed that McDonalds doesn't take a signature from you when you say 'Credit', this is why.

Debit cards are more secure and less expensive to process, so businesses are pushing them hard, but they won't insist on them from their clients because too many people want to use credit.

What most people don't know is that all businesses pay from .75% to 3.5% of every credit card swipe plus a fee of anywhere from a nickel to sixty cents per swipe every time they swipe a card. The fees are determined by the type of card and the buying power of the particular business. So, if you spend $100 on your credit card, the business pays anywhere from 80 cents to $4.10 just to swipe your card. Now imagine you change your mind the next day and go in for a refund. They pay those same fees to put the money back on your card and end up without even making a sale.

Last I checked, around 60% of retail in the US is plastic and the average fees are around 1.9%. So, 1.9% of 60% of all retail spending in the U.S. goes straight to credit card processing every day. That's 1.14% of all retail business. That's millions of dollars a day for the banks and credit card companies without a single penny in interest or fees. They risk nothing, they make the businesses take all the risk.

The bottom line? When the framers said: 'No State shall...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts...' (US Cons. Art 1, Sec 10), they weren't just whistling Dixie. Too bad we ammended that a long time ago.....

-a-train

john doe · December 28, 2007

I'm sorry, but just exactly what kind of people do you have for friends who would do this sort of thing? If they're willing to do that kind of scam with you as an accomplice, just think what they'll do to you when they think they can get away with it. If you have a friend who does this, you should have a nice chat with them about honesty. Or maybe get new friends.

On a related note, I also sometimes do what Bro. D does. If I don't have cash, I'll pay the bill with a credit or debit card and collect from my dinnermates.

Annabelli · December 28, 2007

I was always told that we will have one or two genuine friends in this life. All the other people in our lives will merely be acquaintances with similar interest.

a-train explained how it works and I really appreciated knowing that and it is reasonable for me to believe that people scheme to take advantage of it.

Like Bro. D & john doe, I was always under the impression that it was a matter of convenience and all were honest.

Sometimes things become all too clear when people are living beyond their means and we start taking a closer look at their dealings.

It's become very obvious that a lot of people are skimming proceeds from the organizations that they belong to and volunteer their time. When I received a copy of expenses for our benefit, I noticed that the rehearsal dinner king had been given a reinbursement for the rehearsal dinner. There were several other expenses by other persons that probably were not legit as well. The contributions for the program were enough to cover the thefts and actual expenses but not enough to fund the program next year. There was not that much interest in a Christmas Orchestra performance but I am sad that it ended this way. (Instead of being a community sponsored event, it will now be a performance at an area Baptist Church.)

I think the most dishonest act of panhandling is those people who put out a can on the counter to collect and a lot of times it is for the funeral expense of a child. Usually the obit will carry the name of the church that took care of the burial. That's a horrible way to get money.

miztrniceguy · December 28, 2007

I think the most dishonest act of panhandling is those people who put out a can on the counter to collect and a lot of times it is for the funeral expense of a child. Usually the obit will carry the name of the church that took care of the burial. That's a horrible way to get money.

how do you "know" its panhandling and not for a genuine expense? do you contact the church EVERY time you see a can on the counter? or...do you assume it's a ripoff?...or do you assume it's a real thing?

while things are not always what they seem, i don't think it's fair to always assume the worst.

Canuck Mormon · December 28, 2007

I hardly ever carry cash and could care less what people think. I pay my portion of the bill, with tip, on debit card and leave it at that. If people don't like it, they don't have to go out to lunch with me.

Palerider · December 28, 2007

I hardly ever carry cash and could care less what people think. I pay my portion of the bill, with tip, on debit card and leave it at that. If people don't like it, they don't have to go out to lunch with me.

I am the same way......I will say my usual answer.....DITTO!!!!

pushka · December 29, 2007

On a related subject, has anyone ever watched the British TV series The Real Hustle? My son introduced me to this very useful programme in which the 3 presenters enact scams on people, which are filmed, and then they re-imburse the money they have swindelled afterwards. The presenters show a whole variety of scams, such as the one Annabelli mentioned...collections for 'scam' charities etc. to thieves setting up tills in busy stores, at Christmas time, and taking payments off the customers, also using a device to record bank details from credit and debit cards and then packing up and clearing off with their takings. It really does amaze me the number of ways there are to rip off people...be warned!!

Palerider · December 29, 2007

On a related subject, has anyone ever watched the British TV series The Real Hustle? My son introduced me to this very useful programme in which the 3 presenters enact scams on people, which are filmed, and then they re-imburse the money they have swindelled afterwards. The presenters show a whole variety of scams, such as the one Annabelli mentioned...collections for 'scam' charities etc. to thieves setting up tills in busy stores, at Christmas time, and taking payments off the customers, also using a device to record bank details from credit and debit cards and then packing up and clearing off with their takings. It really does amaze me the number of ways there are to rip off people...be warned!!