The Godhead And The Role Of The Holy Ghost

[MorningStar]

I find discussions about the nature of Heavenly Father interesting. People reject the idea that He has a body, but it makes sense to me that if The Son has a body, The Father has a body. The scripture is frequently brought up that God is a spirit. Yes, and we are spirits too. The Holy Ghost is part of the Godhead and is a spirit and I don't see how this scripture points to Heavenly Father not having a body. If Heavenly Father is just a spirit, then what is the purpose of the Holy Ghost? It seems the Holy Ghost would not be necessary if Heavenly Father had no body.

They are one in purpose, but have different functions. We have God The Father who has a body of flesh and bone and is the Father of our spirits. The Son had a body of flesh and blood and was needed to Atone for our sins, and The Holy Ghost is needed to testify of both of them and enable us to feel God's influence everywhere. They work rather nicely together. :)

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I actually had someone ask me the following question:

If God the Father (according to Mormonism) is a resurrected being who became exalted and became a God, how did the Holy Spirit become a God without a physical body?

I couldn't answer this question....

Anyone has any ideas on how to answer this question?

[Sheelah]

How did Christ attain his Godhood before he was a mortal? I think the same applies to the Holy Ghost except that for his mission at this time prevents him from obtaining a physical body. Some spirits just excelled in the spirit world. Many of those, of course, became our prophets and leaders here on earth. My *belief* is that when his mission is through as needing to be a spirit only, he too will obtain his body, but that's pure speculation on my part. Just makes sense to me I guess.

[MorningStar]

That's an interesting question. Jesus Christ was also part of the Godhead before He came to earth. But was He exalted before He came here or was it afterwards? Is exaltation a prerequisite to being in the Godhead? What is exaltation?

:)

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

The reason I have a hard time trying to answer this question is becasue of D&C 132 where the idea of becoming exalted and the purpose behind becoming exalted is to taste mortality to eventually become an endowed member of the True Gospel and be married for all time and eternity. Without this process, the status of exaltation is null and void. Thus, I am having a hard time with such an idea and doctrine.

I am continually praying to receive insight into this.

[Doctor Steuss]

The reason I have a hard time trying to answer this question is becasue of D&C 132 where the idea of becoming exalted and the purpose behind becoming exalted is to taste mortality to eventually become an endowed member of the True Gospel and be married for all time and eternity. Without this process, the status of exaltation is null and void. Thus, I am having a hard time with such an idea and doctrine.

I am continually praying to receive insight into this.

I'm not sure that all of the following necessarily mean the same thing:

"god," G-d, God, Godhood, exaltation and being part of the "Godhead."

Once that is peripherally grasped, it might tend to make a little more sense; albeit only slightly.

Then again, it just might cause more confusion.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I'm not sure that all of the following necessarily mean the same thing:

"god," G-d, God, Godhood, and being part of the "Godhead."

Once that is peripherally grasped, it might tend to make a little more sense; albeit only slightly.

Then again, it just might cause more confusion.

The other question that was posed to me was this: If Christ is the literal begotten spiritual elder child of God the father in a spiritual realm, then was there a time that Christ did not exist before his spiritual begetting?

I had to turn and walk away because I honestly did not know how to answer this persons question and it is still troubling me for the past couple of months.

[MorningStar]

From lds.org under Gospel Topics:

Eternal Life

Eternal life is the phrase used in scripture to define the quality of life that our Eternal Father lives. The Lord declared, "This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39). Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God's presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4). Like immortality, this gift is made possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. However, to inherit eternal life requires our "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (Articles of Faith 1:3).

[MorningStar]

The other question that was posed to me was this: If Christ is the literal begotten spiritual elder child of God the father in a spiritual realm, then was there a time that Christ did not exist before his spiritual begetting?

I had to turn and walk away because I honestly did not know how to answer this persons question and it is still troubling me for the past couple of months.

This would make a great topic for a separate thread. :)

[Doctor Steuss]

The other question that was posed to me was this: If Christ is the literal begotten spiritual elder child of God the father in a spiritual realm, then was there a time that Christ did not exist before his spiritual begetting?

I had to turn and walk away because I honestly did not know how to answer this persons question and it is still troubling me for the past couple of months.

We are all eternal and have always existed, we have just been in different forms. Christ, G-d the Father, you, me... we have always existed. We have just "progressed" to different forms through the help of G-d the Father, and will continue to do so.

Read Abraham chapter 3 and hopefully the above will makes sense.

But, then again... I might be off (sometimes my thoughts don't necessarily line up with "official" LDS doctrine).

[Sheelah]

That's an interesting question. Jesus Christ was also part of the Godhead before He came to earth. But was He exalted before He came here or was it afterwards? Is exaltation a prerequisite to being in the Godhead? What is exaltation?

:)

We know what we have to do to be exaltated... maybe there was a premortal way that only a few actually achieved!

But my official answer to your 3 questions is: I don't know :)

[HiJolly]

The other question that was posed to me was this: If Christ is the literal begotten spiritual elder child of God the father in a spiritual realm, then was there a time that Christ did not exist before his spiritual begetting?

I think the answer is 'no'. To explain it is not really easy, because of necessity anything "pre-mortal" is somewhat foggy and unclear. I mean, the effect of the veil.

We are taught that all things have intelligence, and that would include you, me, and Christ. This intelligence is eternal and co-equal with God, and for that matter may BE God in a sense. As I said, this stuff is not easily understood by we mortals. Section 93 of the Doctrine & Covenants is really cool but you need the spirit in spades to understand it. Oh, and my opinion is that section 132 is pretty advanced, and contains some doctrine that we don't have the context for in 2007, like they had in 1830/40-whatever. So be careful trying to force it into a 2007 box, if you know what I mean.

HiJolly

[Still_Small_Voice]

If God the Father (according to Mormonism) is a resurrected being who became exalted and became a God, how did the Holy Spirit become a God without a physical body?

The Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead. He has not received His exaltation. If He had received His exaltation already, He would have a perfected, glorified body of flesh and bones. Part of being exalted is having a perfected body of flesh and bones.

The Holy Spirit's role is to teach mankind all things and bring truth to our remembrance. It is necessary for Him to not have a body at the present time to fulfill His role.

This is the answer to your question and I do believe it is sound doctrine.

[Still_Small_Voice]

The scripture is frequently brought up that God is a spirit. Yes, and we are spirits too. The Holy Ghost is part of the Godhead and is a spirit and I don't see how this scripture points to Heavenly Father not having a body.

If people bring up John 4:24, you can also bring up the following scriptures:

Hebrews Chapter 12

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

I John Chapter 4

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

I John Chapter 1

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

John 4:24 is simply teaching that God has a spirit. To say He is simply a spirit and nothing more does not agree with all of these other scriptures.

[jadams_4040]

I find discussions about the nature of Heavenly Father interesting. People reject the idea that He has a body, but it makes sense to me that if The Son has a body, The Father has a body. The scripture is frequently brought up that God is a spirit. Yes, and we are spirits too. The Holy Ghost is part of the Godhead and is a spirit and I don't see how this scripture points to Heavenly Father not having a body. If Heavenly Father is just a spirit, then what is the purpose of the Holy Ghost? It seems the Holy Ghost would not be necessary if Heavenly Father had no body.

They are one in purpose, but have different functions. We have God The Father who has a body of flesh and bone and is the Father of our spirits. The Son had a body of flesh and blood and was needed to Atone for our sins, and The Holy Ghost is needed to testify of both of them and enable us to feel God's influence everywhere. They work rather nicely together. :)

Yes! i agree with all that you say, But i always am wondering, God has a body of flesh and bones,

Where does he keep it? I relize he can come and go at will, but if he "has" a body does he just come

and use it when he wants? if so then where does he put his body when he is a spirit? And where does he

hang out. if he has a body of flesh then he must live hear on earth, or maybe there is another earth or

something like it in the celestial?

I relize this might sound profoundly ludicrus way of thinking for some, but it is my question?

A body of flesh and bones has got to be somewhere!

[Jeny]

Yes! i agree with all that you say, But i always am wondering, God has a body of flesh and bones,

Where does he keep it? I relize he can come and go at will, but if he "has" a body does he just come

and use it when he wants? if so then where does he put his body when he is a spirit? And where does he

hang out. if he has a body of flesh then he must live hear on earth, or maybe there is another earth or

something like it in the celestial?

I relize this might sound profoundly ludicrus way of thinking for some, but it is my question?

A body of flesh and bones has got to be somewhere!

Have you ever read the Pearl of Great Price? There are many worlds like Earth and G-d lives on one that is close to the Star, Kolob. I also believe in the string theory (Physics) and it proves how G-d can have a physical body but still not be bound by time, space, or solid walls...G-d has full knowledge and control over the tiny, minute strings that make up and form all matter.

[Jeny]

He can manipulate them in any way that he so desires, He can bend time and space, he has all the answers, and he DOES have a physical body!!

[Douglas]

The reason I have a hard time trying to answer this question is becasue of D&C 132 where the idea of becoming exalted and the purpose behind becoming exalted is to taste mortality to eventually become an endowed member of the True Gospel and be married for all time and eternity. Without this process, the status of exaltation is null and void. Thus, I am having a hard time with such an idea and doctrine.

I am continually praying to receive insight into this.

Does this mean if I convert and my spouse does not we cannot be together for eternity?

[HiJolly]

Does this mean if I convert and my spouse does not we cannot be together for eternity?

Not to my understanding, though I'm sure there are a lot of people that may disagree with me. I think if we take the long term view and trust in God, there's nothing to worry about.

I mean, there is a lot that will happen in life, and in the after-life, and our understanding of all that is pretty dim, overall. Marriage is an earthly ordinance, but we (LDS) have figured out that we can do vicarious work for the dead, whereby they can be baptised and married. So, I think everything can be worked out in the end. Can be. Hope springs eternal!

HiJolly

[Guest Iggy]

Not to my understanding, though I'm sure there are a lot of people that may disagree with me. I think if we take the long term view and trust in God, there's nothing to worry about.

I mean, there is a lot that will happen in life, and in the after-life, and our understanding of all that is pretty dim, overall. Marriage is an earthly ordinance, but we (LDS) have figured out that we can do vicarious work for the dead, whereby they can be baptised and married. So, I think everything can be worked out in the end. Can be. Hope springs eternal!

HiJolly

From the scriptures below, I always took it that what was sanctified here on Earth will be honored in Heaven. Thus you are sealed here on Earth, thus you are sealed in Heaven.

D&C 128: 8, 10

8 Now, the nature of this ordinance consists in the power of the priesthood, by the revelation of Jesus Christ, wherein it is granted that whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Or, in other words, taking a different view of the translation, whatsoever you record on earth shall be recorded in heaven, and whatsoever you do not record on earth shall not be recorded in heaven; for out of the books shall your dead be judged, according to their own works, whether they themselves have attended to the cordinances in their own propria persona, or by the means of their own agents, according to the ordinance which God has prepared for their salvation from before the foundation of the world, according to the records which they have kept concerning their dead.

• • •

10 And again, for the precedent, Matthew 16:18, 19: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. empasis mine

--------------------------------------------

but we (LDS) have figured out that we can do vicarious work for the dead

I disagree with your wording here. We LDS were instructed by Father through the mouths of His Prophets via revelaton to do the vicarious works for the dead, we did not just happen to figure it out.

[Sheelah]

Does this mean if I convert and my spouse does not we cannot be together for eternity?

If she were to never convert, you can be sealed to each other after she dies, or even afterward if you both die if you have children. Then it will be up to the greatest judge of all to determine how it comes out in the end.

But the best way is to try, if at all possible, to do it while alive and enjoy all the blessings that come from it.

[HiJolly]

From the scriptures below, I always took it that what was sanctified here on Earth will be honored in Heaven. Thus you are sealed here on Earth, thus you are sealed in Heaven.

Yes.

I disagree with your wording here. We LDS were instructed by Father through the mouths of His Prophets via revelaton to do the vicarious works for the dead, we did not just happen to figure it out.

Ok. My bad on the wording.

HiJolly

[Guest Iggy]

Yes.

Ok. My bad on the wording.

HiJolly

Okay - I'm glad we are on the same page. I sometimes fall asleep during Gospel Doctrine, and I thought maybe I snoozed through that part. (Well, okay - most times I do fall asleep. But I can't help it. It is just way too hot in there. 85 is not my idea of comfortable nor conducive to learning. Just found out that I snore sitting up! (need an embarrassed smiley ))

[Garden Girl]

jadams...

I think we can use biblical scripture to answer your questions about God's physical body... by looking at the example of the Savior.

After his crucifixtion and resurrection, when Mary went to the tomb and found he was gone, he appeared to her in physical form... later he met with his apostles to spend time with them, teaching them and leaving instructions about what they were to do... see Matt 28:16-20; Mark 16:1416; Luke 24: 27-53 In verse 31 while sitting at meat with his apostles their eyes were opened and they knew him, and he "vanished out of their sight." In verse 36 while the apostles are talking, he appears in the midst of them and they were terrified because he suddenly appeared. In verse 39 he shows them his hands and feet and invites them to handle him. In verse 41 he asks them for food and he eats with them. In 50 and 51 he lifts up his hands and blesses them... then he is carried up into heaven. And John 20:16-18.

It is clear that Christ upon resurrection and after the three days appeared to his apostles and others with a physical body... which he can show and be handled, but he can also disappear. I would think that this would be the same with God the Father, IMO.

Garden Girl

[larsumms]

I have a lot to say about this - I hope I don't blow you away.

In the Lectures on Faith, Lecture 4 (I believe) it states that God the Father and Jesus Christ have a common mind. I take this to be the definition of being a God. If a spirit or coporeal being surrenders their own will completely, while still having a separate awareness, and this is a permanent surrender, then they become "a" God. This is how the Holy Ghost became a God. Jesus was a God in the spirit world before he became mortal. This is how we will become Gods.

The Goodhead is like a Bishopric. There was a time when this current Godhead didn't exist. I will refer to God the Father as Ahman (That's his name).

If Jesus did everything and only things he saw his Father do, then Ahman also performed an atonement for hsi spirit brothers and sisters. When he did that, he was in a different Godhead, playing the role of the Redeemer in that Godhead. IMO, there is a progression of Godheads. There will come a day when Jesus will be called into a new Godhead, where he will play the role of the Father, and the spirit we now name the Holy Ghost will be called to be the Redeemer in that Godhead, having witnessed all the things which Jesus did as a Redeemer for us.

There is a lot more I can say about this, but I'll stop now to see how you react to htis.

Please provide references for your statements such as God the Father's name being Ahman.

To find this reference, go to the index of the a BOM-D&C-POGP trilogy, and look up Ahman. Reference is D&C 78:20, 95:17. The name "Son Ahman" is explained in uncanonized scripture to mean "Son of Ahman". Also, the term "Adam-ondi-Ahman", which is a name/phrase in the Adamic language. It is my opinion that "ondi" is a verb that means something like "to give an accounting to". Orson Pratt aluded to this in JD 2:342, and he states that in the language of Adam, Ahman means "Man of Holiness". There are many references that the phrase "Man of Holiness" refers to Heavenly Father.

"