After All That We Can Do?

[cjcampbell]

Originally posted by Ezra Taft Benson [i

What Think We of Christ? Chap. 1]

Yes, it is "by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." What is meant by the phrase "after all we can do"?

"After all we can do" includes extending our best effort.

"After all we can do" includes living His commandments.

"After all we can do" includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regard us as their adversary.

"After all we can do" means clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, and giving "succor [to] those that stand in need of [our] succor" (Mosiah 4:16), remembering that what we do unto one of the least of God's children, we do unto Him (Matthew 25:40).

"After all we can do" means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings, and treating others the way we would want to be treated.

President Benson does not leave any room here for simply giving things the old college try. You must do these things or you will not receive the grace of redemption, no ifs ands or buts. Further, many other leaders of the Church have repeated this theme.

The problem is, no one does "ALL" that they can do. Not Ezra Taft Benson, or Joseph Smith, or Gordon B. Hinckley have done ALL that they COULD have done. This is not to exercise judgment upon these men, but to point out that no one who has ever lived did ALL that they could have done. Yet, we hear this scripture interpreted in this way in Conference. We hear it in Sunday School. We hear it in talks by mission presidents, by stake presidents, by bishops, by general authorities, and by members of the Church. If you do not do ALL that you can do, you are damned.

This seems a cruel joke -- to offer salvation from our sins and eternal life only to snatch it away because no one has done ALL that they could have done. Arguably, even Jesus Christ did not live up to this standard. He was God, yet he did not permanently establish his church, end oppression, end poverty, famine, and disease, etc. He succored only a tiny number of people while he was on the earth.

Now, it seems to me that Nephi did not mean this scripture to be taken this way. It seems to me that he meant that no matter what we do, even if we did everything that it was possible for us to do in this life, that we would not earn salvation by our works. We must do good works, yes, but we are all unprofitable servants. Left to our own, even if we lived our lives doing exactly as the Savior would have done in every circumstance, still we are evil and unable to return to God without the grace of the atonement.

I think that reflection on this scripture will show that this other interpretation -- that we must do ALL that we can do in order to merit grace -- is a false doctrine that denies the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oddly, knowing this, I personally would still desire to serve God and obey the commandments, but it is cold comfort knowing that virtually every modern-day leader of the Church seems to believe that I will be damned anyway, as will us all. It is enough to make one despondent.

So, will we hear it again this conference? I feel comfortless, right now. Do the leaders of the Church really mean to say that we are all damned?

[jwhitlock]

I've always understood this passage to mean just what it says - that the atonement of Christ (grace) provides our salvation after (after this life, or ultimately) we have done all we can do (according to our abilities).

You're right in that no one is perfect in keeping all the commandments, or in performing the things we have been asked to do. The atonement needs to cover for those items. In fact, if we were perfect in keeping all we have been commanded to do, we possibly wouldn't even need the atonement. This is because the commandments are so all inclusive.

I rather look at what we have been commanded to do as a training ground. The bar is set for what we will eventually have to become, so we can understand it, but here through the atonement, we are candidates for salvation in Christ (Moroni 10 - be perfected in Christ). Indeed, I suspect that when we fully accept Christ in our lives, and become perfected in Him, we still make mistakes and fall short - but His atonement provides what we need so that we can go forward and have the blessings of obedience in this life.

I too have often wondered about why the brethren speak the way they do concerning this matter. The same thing has happened when I have listened to conference talks concerning repentance and forgiveness of sins. Some of them have said that such forgiveness only comes after we keep all of the commandments, which is contradictory on the surface. It's also not been my experience, since I have felt that forgiveness despite my significant, ongoing imperfections.

So what are we to make of it? I suggest that the brethren are required to present the plan of salvation as we are supposed to reach for it, and that then the Holy Spirit guides each of us in our lives according to our individual abilities, allowing the atonement to support us until we are able to be perfected in those things which we need to do - which, obviously, will be sometime after this life for virtually all of us.

I think that the brethren have the calling to preach the gospel and salvation as it really is - and that when they say we have to be perfect in keeping all of the commandments before we can be cleansed from our sins, it is in the ultimate, after-this-life sense. It is something we are supposed to try to start working with in this life, and it works this way:

I'm going to do my best to keep all of the commandments, but I'm going to fall short. Because I have made covenants with the Lord and am doing what I can, the atonement of Christ will make up the shortfall (which is significant), and then I am going to be able to get provisional (temporary) forgiveness and blessings to help me to make more progress, as I repent and seek such blessings and forgiveness. It's going to be a cycle that repeats itself over and over and over during this life, and I'm not going to get it totally right until sometime after this life. In the meantime, Christ, through His love and atonement, is going to cover me - because I have demonstrated my willingness as set forth in the sacrament prayers (which are worth reading once again in this context).

I hope this helps!

[cjcampbell]

I've always understood this passage to mean just what it says - that the atonement of Christ (grace) provides our salvation after (after this life, or ultimately) we have done all we can do (according to our abilities).

The very definition of sin is doing less than we can do, even according to our abilities. So I still don't get it. No one does everything they can do even according to their abilities. If that is the standard, we are all still damned.

[Sheelah]

The very definition of sin is doing less than we can do, even according to our abilities. So I still don't get it. No one does everything they can do even according to their abilities. If that is the standard, we are all still damned.

That's the beauty of having Jesus as our judge on what he'll allow his atonement to cover. He knows us even better than we know ourselves and frankly, I believe, that He is on our side. He has been there, he knows what its like to be tired, depressed, sick, etc and He is not expecting us to be perfect every minute of every day. But that doesn't mean that He doesn't expect us to not *strive* to do our best the times we can, and He knows when that is.

I agree with JWhitlock on why the brethren speak this way, it is much like why the Lord only emphasizes the highest kingdom in the Celestial Kingdom. They wants us *striving* to be there and not think we can't do it and settle for something less.

I don't know if you've read Stephen Robinson's "Believing Christ," but it really helped me understand this principle. Yes, I am going to have my bad days and not always be up to par, but Christ knows the difference between that and outright rebellion against trying.

[SquarePeg48]

I suppose it depends on whether you interpret "all you can do" as "all you are able to do given your mortal limitations such as genetics, poverty/wealth, parenting, life's circumstances" or "all that is possible to be done." If you are thinking the interpretation is the latter, you exclude even the Lord...since He doesn't do all things Himself, and didn't do all things during his earthly time. It seems much more reasonable to interpret this as "all you are able to do given your life's situation."

As has been pointed out, Stephen Robison's book Believing Christ outlines this doctrine very beautifully. One of my favorite parts is the Parable of the Bicycle. His daughter saved up all her money for a new bike, but it was clear that she would never have enough, at least not at that point in time. So dad bought her a bicycle, taking "all" that the child could give (possibly a few cents) and making up the difference. Thus it is with our Savior. We cannot meet the requirements. It is in the design. We are supposed to allow the Savior to make us whole and meet the demands of justice.

Why do GA's and prophets emphasize the doing part? Possibly because part of our fallen nature is to say to ourselves, "Well, I don't have to do 100% because the Lord will take care of it. I can (in Nephi's words) lie a little, take advantage of my neighbor because of his words, and still be eligible for the Kingdom because the Lord will make up for what I don't do." This is one of Satan's great lies. We MUST be giving our best. If our best is poor, then that is acceptable. If our best is very, very good, then that is what is required. "Of him to whom much is given, much is REQUIRED. (emphasis mine)." Not, "much is expected", not, "much is asked"...the words are: much is REQUIRED. We are REQUIRED, as a condition of continuing spiritual growth and eventual exaltation, to give our very best. We know, the Lord knows, just what that is at any given time in our lives.

[snipe123]

President Benson does not leave any room here for simply giving things the old college try. You must do these things or you will not receive the grace of redemption, no ifs ands or buts. Further, many other leaders of the Church have repeated this theme.

The problem is, no one does "ALL" that they can do. Not Ezra Taft Benson, or Joseph Smith, or Gordon B. Hinckley have done ALL that they COULD have done. This is not to exercise judgment upon these men, but to point out that no one who has ever lived did ALL that they could have done. Yet, we hear this scripture interpreted in this way in Conference. We hear it in Sunday School. We hear it in talks by mission presidents, by stake presidents, by bishops, by general authorities, and by members of the Church. If you do not do ALL that you can do, you are damned.

This seems a cruel joke -- to offer salvation from our sins and eternal life only to snatch it away because no one has done ALL that they could have done. Arguably, even Jesus Christ did not live up to this standard. He was God, yet he did not permanently establish his church, end oppression, end poverty, famine, and disease, etc. He succored only a tiny number of people while he was on the earth.

Now, it seems to me that Nephi did not mean this scripture to be taken this way. It seems to me that he meant that no matter what we do, even if we did everything that it was possible for us to do in this life, that we would not earn salvation by our works. We must do good works, yes, but we are all unprofitable servants. Left to our own, even if we lived our lives doing exactly as the Savior would have done in every circumstance, still we are evil and unable to return to God without the grace of the atonement.

I think that reflection on this scripture will show that this other interpretation -- that we must do ALL that we can do in order to merit grace -- is a false doctrine that denies the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oddly, knowing this, I personally would still desire to serve God and obey the commandments, but it is cold comfort knowing that virtually every modern-day leader of the Church seems to believe that I will be damned anyway, as will us all. It is enough to make one despondent.

So, will we hear it again this conference? I feel comfortless, right now. Do the leaders of the Church really mean to say that we are all damned?

Read this book:

http://deseretbook.com/store/product?sku=4499076

Its called "Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson

I know of no better book or discussion that better describes our covenant relationship with The Lord and the role of grace...Read it, and you will definitely feel better...it is not a long or deeply theological book...It is excellent and totally changed my attitude on this subject...I consider this to be in my top 5 LDS books, and I have read a lot of them... :)

[Doctor Steuss]

I tend to read that verse as an emphasis on G-d's grace, not an emphasis on us, or our part.

by grace that we are saved, after all we can do

After all we can do, it is still grace that saves us.

[jwhitlock]

The very definition of sin is doing less than we can do, even according to our abilities. So I still don't get it. No one does everything they can do even according to their abilities. If that is the standard, we are all still damned.

And that's an appropriate definition.

Hence the need to understand what the atonement of Christ covers in our lives. It does cover for sin - even intentional - when He and we understand that we are on the path (having accepted the ordinances) and are trying to move in the direction of Him.

We are going to continue sinning. The may be no difference in sin between what we are doing and what someone outside of the Church is doing (and I'm going to concentrate on day to day living, not grievous sin for the purposes of this post), but the difference does lie in the fact of accepting Christ, accepting the ordinances, and actively trying to keep the covenants we have made.

It's the actively trying to keep the covenants that's the kicker in this. We want to have a formal definition of what that means for everybody, but it is purely based on each individual, case by case, and judged by Christ, and then confirmed to that individual through the Spirit.

For instance, I know that I mess up. Big time, sometimes. But I can receive the confirmation of the Spirit, when I go in prayer, or when I am pondering (and the second is most likely), that I am indeed accepted by Him and the atonement is covering my sins and weaknesses. Especially when I understand that I am truly still a sinner.

For purposes of keeping this simple, I am also confining it to members of the Church. Those outside the Church who haven't accepted the ordinances needs to be considered separately - maybe a topic for another thread.

So, we do receive provisional salvation in this life - based on our willingness to endure to the end, even when we stumble and fall on a daily basis.

I can't answer the question for you personally; is your effort in doing what you can acceptable to Christ? Have you felt His hand in your life, or do you decline to feel it because you feel too unworthy? Have you accepted the ordinances and are you trying to keep the covenants that you have made? Are you dedicated to proceeding down the path set before you by the restored gospel, despite the fact you know that you will probably fall short?

If you can present yourself honestly and humbly before the Lord in prayer and pondering and address these items in a very personal way with Him, then I believe that you will receive your answer as to what this all means personally for you.

My only place in this is to offer encouragement and to give, very inadequately, a kind of explanation for how I perceive all this to be.

Hope that helps.

[JohnBirchSociety]

President Benson does not leave any room here for simply giving things the old college try. You must do these things or you will not receive the grace of redemption, no ifs ands or buts. Further, many other leaders of the Church have repeated this theme.

The problem is, no one does "ALL" that they can do. Not Ezra Taft Benson, or Joseph Smith, or Gordon B. Hinckley have done ALL that they COULD have done. This is not to exercise judgment upon these men, but to point out that no one who has ever lived did ALL that they could have done. Yet, we hear this scripture interpreted in this way in Conference. We hear it in Sunday School. We hear it in talks by mission presidents, by stake presidents, by bishops, by general authorities, and by members of the Church. If you do not do ALL that you can do, you are damned.

This seems a cruel joke -- to offer salvation from our sins and eternal life only to snatch it away because no one has done ALL that they could have done. Arguably, even Jesus Christ did not live up to this standard. He was God, yet he did not permanently establish his church, end oppression, end poverty, famine, and disease, etc. He succored only a tiny number of people while he was on the earth.

Now, it seems to me that Nephi did not mean this scripture to be taken this way. It seems to me that he meant that no matter what we do, even if we did everything that it was possible for us to do in this life, that we would not earn salvation by our works. We must do good works, yes, but we are all unprofitable servants. Left to our own, even if we lived our lives doing exactly as the Savior would have done in every circumstance, still we are evil and unable to return to God without the grace of the atonement.

I think that reflection on this scripture will show that this other interpretation -- that we must do ALL that we can do in order to merit grace -- is a false doctrine that denies the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oddly, knowing this, I personally would still desire to serve God and obey the commandments, but it is cold comfort knowing that virtually every modern-day leader of the Church seems to believe that I will be damned anyway, as will us all. It is enough to make one despondent.

So, will we hear it again this conference? I feel comfortless, right now. Do the leaders of the Church really mean to say that we are all damned?

Two points:

1) The verse(s) in question 2 Nephi 25:23-24

"For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled."

Nephi is writing this unto his children, first, and secondly with the knowledge that we would eventually receive it as well. Context is VERY important here. The reason it's "after all we can do" in these verses is because, as verse 24 says, they were living the law of Moses, and therefore we REQUIRED to do works, in anticipation of the coming Savior, Christ. In other words, Nephi is telling his children first that though they know of the coming of Christ, and his grace will be the means of their salvation, they must follow the law, until grace can be applied through the atonement.

I think the mix up that happens with us Mormons is that we apply this to us, and our time. We don't live the law of Moses. The Atonement has occurred, and therefore, we have no "works" obligation in order to be saved from the effects of sin, so the "after all we can do" is not really, in context, applicable to us, in regards to salvation.

I think the admonition is a useful reminder to do our best, not because it is a prerequisite to salvation (as was the case with those living the law of Moses), but because it is best for us.

2) Salvation from the effect of sin (death) comes ONLY through the honest acceptance of the Atonement, and through no work on our part. The reason for this is simple. If we could work our way to salvation (we can't), the Atonement wouldn't be necessary. In fact, if that were the case (working to salvation), the Atonement would be absurd.

[jwhitlock]

I think the mix up that happens with us Mormons is that we apply this to us, and our time. We don't live the law of Moses. The Atonement has occurred, and therefore, we have no "works" obligation in order to be saved from the effects of sin, so the "after all we can do" is not really, in context, applicable to us, in regards to salvation.

Actually, one slight clarification on what you have said. While we do not have the works of the law anymore, we do have other works that need to be performed as a necessary part of salvation. While these works don't save us, they do open the door for salvation to come. I usually refer to them as the necessary mechanics of the gospel. The works we have to do are the ordinances, including baptism, temple ordinances, etc.

Otherwise, you are correct. In fact, another way of looking at the II Nephi passage may be, as you indicate, that there are works (ordinances) that we must perform - and that we are saved by grace after doing those things. In other words, perhaps the passage may be paraphrased "that we are saved by grace, after performing the things (ordinances) we are required to do."

[Sheelah]

Actually JBS is right, to be resurrected (the Salvation he's talking about) we don't have to do anything.. but to reach the Celestial Kingdom (Salvation as Exaltation or Eternal Life) we do have to do the works of the ordinances plus be learning to live our lives following the pattern Christ set here on earth. Think this is when terminology gets in our way.

[jadams_4040]

President Benson does not leave any room here for simply giving things the old college try. You must do these things or you will not receive the grace of redemption, no ifs ands or buts. Further, many other leaders of the Church have repeated this theme.

The problem is, no one does "ALL" that they can do. Not Ezra Taft Benson, or Joseph Smith, or Gordon B. Hinckley have done ALL that they COULD have done. This is not to exercise judgment upon these men, but to point out that no one who has ever lived did ALL that they could have done. Yet, we hear this scripture interpreted in this way in Conference. We hear it in Sunday School. We hear it in talks by mission presidents, by stake presidents, by bishops, by general authorities, and by members of the Church. If you do not do ALL that you can do, you are damned.

This seems a cruel joke -- to offer salvation from our sins and eternal life only to snatch it away because no one has done ALL that they could have done. Arguably, even Jesus Christ did not live up to this standard. He was God, yet he did not permanently establish his church, end oppression, end poverty, famine, and disease, etc. He succored only a tiny number of people while he was on the earth.

Now, it seems to me that Nephi did not mean this scripture to be taken this way. It seems to me that he meant that no matter what we do, even if we did everything that it was possible for us to do in this life, that we would not earn salvation by our works. We must do good works, yes, but we are all unprofitable servants. Left to our own, even if we lived our lives doing exactly as the Savior would have done in every circumstance, still we are evil and unable to return to God without the grace of the atonement.

I think that reflection on this scripture will show that this other interpretation -- that we must do ALL that we can do in order to merit grace -- is a false doctrine that denies the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oddly, knowing this, I personally would still desire to serve God and obey the commandments, but it is cold comfort knowing that virtually every modern-day leader of the Church seems to believe that I will be damned anyway, as will us all. It is enough to make one despondent.

So, will we hear it again this conference? I feel comfortless, right now. Do the leaders of the Church really mean to say that we are all damned?

I beleive this verse is being missinterprited? it says after all we "can" do. it does not say, after "doing all".

After doing all we as an individual "can" do, in other words the absolute best of our individual ability. And that means the best!

[cjcampbell]

Read this book:

http://deseretbook.com/store/product?sku=4499076

Its called "Believing Christ" by Stephen Robinson

I know of no better book or discussion that better describes our covenant relationship with The Lord and the role of grace...Read it, and you will definitely feel better...it is not a long or deeply theological book...It is excellent and totally changed my attitude on this subject...I consider this to be in my top 5 LDS books, and I have read a lot of them... :)

I have read it, several times. It is a favorite. He criticizes 'members' who emphasize the ALL, but those members appear to be every general authority. Is it really so difficult for members to recognize the hopelessness that this doctrine engenders?

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

President Benson does not leave any room here for simply giving things the old college try. You must do these things or you will not receive the grace of redemption, no ifs ands or buts. Further, many other leaders of the Church have repeated this theme.

The problem is, no one does "ALL" that they can do. Not Ezra Taft Benson, or Joseph Smith, or Gordon B. Hinckley have done ALL that they COULD have done. This is not to exercise judgment upon these men, but to point out that no one who has ever lived did ALL that they could have done. Yet, we hear this scripture interpreted in this way in Conference. We hear it in Sunday School. We hear it in talks by mission presidents, by stake presidents, by bishops, by general authorities, and by members of the Church. If you do not do ALL that you can do, you are damned.

This seems a cruel joke -- to offer salvation from our sins and eternal life only to snatch it away because no one has done ALL that they could have done. Arguably, even Jesus Christ did not live up to this standard. He was God, yet he did not permanently establish his church, end oppression, end poverty, famine, and disease, etc. He succored only a tiny number of people while he was on the earth.

Now, it seems to me that Nephi did not mean this scripture to be taken this way. It seems to me that he meant that no matter what we do, even if we did everything that it was possible for us to do in this life, that we would not earn salvation by our works. We must do good works, yes, but we are all unprofitable servants. Left to our own, even if we lived our lives doing exactly as the Savior would have done in every circumstance, still we are evil and unable to return to God without the grace of the atonement.

I think that reflection on this scripture will show that this other interpretation -- that we must do ALL that we can do in order to merit grace -- is a false doctrine that denies the atonement of Jesus Christ. Oddly, knowing this, I personally would still desire to serve God and obey the commandments, but it is cold comfort knowing that virtually every modern-day leader of the Church seems to believe that I will be damned anyway, as will us all. It is enough to make one despondent.

So, will we hear it again this conference? I feel comfortless, right now. Do the leaders of the Church really mean to say that we are all damned?

I am more of the Reformed Theologian type. Currently, I am listening to the "Doctrines of Grace" by John McArthur on Grace To You. It is a series of sermons which discuss the more hard core doctrines of Eternal Election, Perseverance of the Saints and the nature and purpose of the atonement.

I have found that when talking about reformed theology with members, they seemed to not understand what I am talking about.

For those who are not familiar with Reformed Theology (this is for introductory purposes and not in comparative reasoning) it is the doctrines where the Atonement of Christ is sufficient to save "all" of mankind but only Efficiently effective to save those whom God calls out of mortal men. Such scriptures are those of Romans 1-11 (specifically Romans 3-8 and Romans 9, John 6). In such, there are two calls to repentance. The outer call where we are called to preach the redemption of Christ and the need for a Redeemer. The second being the inner call to repentance where it is the Holy Spirit that actually convicts sinful man of his true nature and births within him the power to come to God with humble realization that he stands deserving of condemnation and the wrath of God.

The true nature of Born again is that which is spiritually born of God and not of Man's own will. It is the empowerment that Begins with God and completed by God, the faith that was began in the heart of man is sustained by God himself. It is the process in scripture known as Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification.

Justification being the process that happens at the point of Saving Grace. Sanctification is a process where we grow in our faith. While we may stumble, while we may give into the temptations of the Adversary (some minor, some grievous) we are not outside of God's Grace and we come to him for repentence, forgiveness, and strength. Glorification being the last when after all is said and done, we enter into the true nature of Heavenly realm and reality.

It is one of the most pure doctrines of True Grace and Atonement that I have found to be scripturally sound and the only corruption comes from those who do not truly understand such doctrines and teachings.

[selek]

I have read it, several times. It is a favorite. He criticizes 'members' who emphasize the ALL, but those members appear to be every general authority. Is it really so difficult for members to recognize the hopelessness that this doctrine engenders?

CJ,

I understand what you are saying, and the lack of comfort that you are feeling right now. I cannot help but wonder, however, at the context. Yes, the leaders of the Church have emphasized "after all we can do", but is the particular interpretation of that phrase you are working with consistent with the rest of their message?

The phrase itself does seem damning, but is it consistent with the rest of the Gospel message- that God loves us, that Jesus, who has suffered as we have, will judge us with mercy?

The law and our accuser are merciless, pitiless, and eager to condemn. Is the Savior? Or is he instead eager and willing to accept the pittance we can offer against our debt, secure in the knowledge that he can and has done the rest?

While that particular phrase is trite and to the point, the entire message of the Gospel is that we are all debtors and through Christ and Christ alone are we redeemed.

But we are redeemed- he purchased our freedom. He restored our mortaged futures and promised that we would become heirs with him of all that the Father has.

Yes- the letter of the law, and the triteness of the phrase "after all we can do" would condemn us. Accusation and fault-finding are the province of our enemy. But Christ himself has said, "Come unto me, ye that are heavy laden."

Straighten your back, Brother Campbell- you are neither slave nor bondsman- but free. Christ has paid your debt and broken your shackles. He will walk beside you and strengthen you until at last you return to our Father's home, to be welcomed as a beloved son of the Most High God.

[cjcampbell]

CJ,

I understand what you are saying, and the lack of comfort that you are feeling right now. I cannot help but wonder, however, at the context. Yes, the leaders of the Church have emphasized "after all we can do", but is the particular interpretation of that phrase you are working with consistent with the rest of their message?

The phrase itself does seem damning, but is it consistent with the rest of the Gospel message- that God loves us, that Jesus, who has suffered as we have, will judge us with mercy?

...

Straighten your back, Brother Campbell- you are neither slave nor bondsman- but free. Christ has paid your debt and broken your shackles. He will walk beside you and strengthen you until at last you return to our Father's home, to be welcomed as a beloved son of the Most High God.

I think these were the points that I was looking for. You are right; it is easy to take a single quote out of context and let it bother you.

After all, Joseph Smith really did see God and Jesus Christ. He really did translate the Book of Mormon. So, given the whole sum of the gospel, you are right.

[MorningStar]

I just think of it as doing the best I can do - the very best as President Hinckley has emphasized, repent, and let the Atonement make up for what I am lacking. I think it was President Kimball who said that good intentions aren't enough - you have to act.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Thinking about this, the way I believe and have come to understand the true heart of scripture is this:

It isn't after all that we can do that we are then saved and the atonement is applied to us, but it is the Atonement that empowers us to do that which we can never be able to do. It is granted by God himself to give us the strength, the power, the agility, the true nature to accomplish and walk according to His will in obedience. Not after all we can do, but before we can do anything.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I used to beat myself up with this doctrine of do all you can then Christ will save you. I could never do enough. There was no hope of salvation and I often felt in despair.

Heavenly Father and Christ determine what is enough. The Lord will give us His peace when we are on the path leading to eternal life. Pray for an eternal perspective and that you might see yourself as God sees you.

The Lord loves us and wants us to all submit unto Him that we might have eternal life. When you feel the love of God which passeth all understanding in your life you will want to submit. It is the sweetest and most powerful love you will ever experience.

Sadly it seems in my life that I see thru a darkened glass. Lost with a veil covering my mind, I feel like I grope in the dark sometimes searching for the answers of why I continue to endure on the path that the Lord wants me to walk.

[MorningStar]

I used to beat myself up with this doctrine of do all you can then Christ will save you. I could never do enough. There was no hope of salvation and I often felt in despair.

Heavenly Father and Christ determine what is enough. The Lord will give us His peace when we are on the path leading to eternal life. Pray for an eternal perspective and that you might see yourself as God sees you.

The Lord loves us and wants us to all submit unto Him that we might have eternal life. When you feel the love of God which passeth all understanding in your life you will want to submit. It is the sweetest and most powerful love you will ever experience.

Sadly it seems in my life that I see thru a darkened glass. Lost with a veil covering my mind, I feel like I grope in the dark sometimes searching for the answers of why I continue to endure on the path that the Lord wants me to walk.

Remember that the veil is thin. :)