The Book "mormon Doctrine"

[HiJolly]

I posted this on another thread, and MorningStar (blame it on her) thought it should be its own topic. So....

The attached items are entries from Pres. David O. McKay's office journal on

the subject of Bruce R. McConkie's book "Mormon Doctrine", during the period

following its original publication.

- --------------------

March 5, 1959: Elder Mark E. Petersen and Elder Marion G. Romney called at

my request. I asked them if they would together go over Elder Bruce R.

McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine" and make a list of the corrections that

should be made preparatory to his sending out an addendum to all members of

the Church who have purchased his book.

- --------------------

Jan. 7, 1960: 10:15 to 12:45 p.m. RE: The Book--"Mormon Doctrine". The

First Presidency met with Elders Mark E. Petersen and Marion G. Romney. They

submitted their report upon their examination of the book "Mormon Doctrine"

by Elder Bruce McConkie. These brethren reported that the manuscript of the

book "Mormon Doctrine" had not been read by the reading committee, that

President Joseph Fielding Smith did not know anything about it until it was

published. Elder Petersen states that the extent of the corrections which he

had marked in his copy of the book (1067) affected most of the 776 pages of

the book. He also said that he thought the brethren should be under the

rule that no book should be published without a specific approval of the

First Presidency. I stated that the decision of the First Presidency and

the Committee should be announced to the Twelve. It was agreed that the

necessary corrections are so numerous that to republish a corrected edition

of the book would be such an extensive repudiation of the original as to

destroy the credit of the author; that the republication of the book should

be forbidden and that the book should be repudiated in such a way as to save

the career of the author as one of the General Authorities of the Church.

It was also agreed that this decision should be announced to the Council of

the Twelve before I talk to the author. Elder Petersen will prepare an

editorial for publication in the Improvement Era, stating the principle of

approval of books on Church doctrine. A rough draft will be submitted to us

for approval.

- --------------------

Jan. 7, 1960 [part of a letter addressed to David O. McKay from Marion G.

Romney, dated January 28, 1959]. The author is an able and thorough student

of the gospel. In many respects he has produced a remarkable book. Properly

used, it quickly introduces the student to the authorities on most any

gospel subject. As to the book itself, notwithstanding its many commendable

and valuable features and the author's assumption of "sole and full

responsibility" for it, its nature and scope and the authoritative tone of

the style in which it is written pose the question as to the propriety of

the author's attempting such a project without assignment and supervision

from him whose right and responsibility it is to speak for the Church on

"Mormon Doctrine." Had the work been authoritatively supervised, some of

the following matters might have been omitted and the treatment of others

modified.

A. References to churches and other groups who do not accept "Mormon

Doctrine."

1. Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who sometimes

refer to themselves as "Josephites." (Exhibit II-1, pages 50, 141, 362)

2. "Christian Churches" generally. (Exhibit II-2, pages 139, 455)

3. "Catholic Church." (Exhibit II-3, pages 13, 66, 129, 130, 216, 241, 242,

314-315, 342, 346, 350, 422, 499, 511, 697)

4. Communists and Catholics. (Exhibit II-4, pages 26-7, 131)

5. Evolution and Evolutionists (Exhibit II-5, pages 37, 77, 136, 180, 228,

238, 659)

B. Declaration as to "Mormon Doctrine" on controversial issues.

1. "Pre-Adamites." (Exhibit III-1, pages 17, 262)

2. Status of Animals and Plants in the Garden of Eden. (Exhibit III-2, pages

36, 234-35)

3. Meaning of the various accounts of Creation. (Exhibit III-3, pages 157-8,

167-8)

4. Dispensation of Abraham. (Exhibit III-4, page 203)

5. Moses as a translated being. (Exhibit III-5, pages 206, 445, 466, 727-8)

6. Origin of Individuality. (Exhibit III-6, page 404)

7. Defiling the priesthood. (Exhibit III-7, page 437)

8. Manner in which Jesus was Begotten. (Exhibit III-8, page 494)

9. Written sermons. (Exhibit III-9, pages 634-5, 716)

10. Resurrection of stillborn children. (Exhibit III-10, page 694)

C. Miscellaneous Interpretations. (Exhibit IV)

Frequency of Administrations, page 22

Baptism in the "molten sea," page 98

II Peter 1;19, page 102

Paul married, page 112

Status of those "with Christ in His Resurrection," page 128

Consecration of oil, page 147

Councils and schools among the Gods, page 151

Limitations on Deity, page 154

Sunday not a proper day for family reunions, page 254

Geological changes at the time of the deluge, page 268

The Holy Ghost a spirit man, page 329

Facing east in temples when giving the Hosanna Shout, page 337

Details on family prayer and asking the blessing on food, page 526

Women to be gods, page 551

Interpretation of Doctrine and Covenants 93:1, page 581

Interpretation of "Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning," page

606

Status of little children in the celestial kingdom, page 607

Resumption of schools of the prophets, page 613

Time of beginning of seasons, page 616

Interpretation of III Nephi 21:20, page 618

D. Repeated use of the word "apostate" and related terms in a way which to

many seems discourteous and to others gives offense. (Exhibit V, pages 123,

125, 160, 169, 212, 223, 383, 528, 538, 548, 596)

- --------------------

Jan 8, 1960. The First Presidency held a meeting. We decided that Bruce R.

McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine" recently published by Bookcraft Company

must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it

is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation. It is

reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections in his book, and

is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not

want him to publish another edition. We decided, also, to have no more

books published by General Authorities without their first having the

consent of the First Presidency.

- --------------------

Jan. 14, 1960: Was engaged in the meeting of the First Presidency. Among

matters discussed at this meeting were the following: Elder Mark E.

Petersen's proposed editorial on books by General Authorities. A draft of a

proposed editorial for the Improvement Era, prepared by Elder Mark E.

Petersen, on the subject of selecting good books, and upon the approval of

the publication of books by the First Presidency, was read. After

consideration it was decided that the general statement, without the

reference to "Mormon Doctrine" and "Ancient America and the Book of Mormon,"

which should be handled separately, would be a suitable editorial on the

subject of selecting good books. Further action on the matter of publishing

a statement relating to the approval of books by the First Presidency was

deferred awaiting consideration of the subject by me with President Joseph

Fielding Smith.

- --------------------

Jan. 27, 1960: Conference with Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith re: Bruce R.

McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine." At the request of the First Presidency,

I called President Joseph Fielding Smith, and told him that we are a unit in

disapproving of Brother Bruce R. McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine," as an

authoritative exposition of the principles of the gospel. I then said,

"Now, Brother Smith, he is a General Authority, and we do not want to give

him a public rebuke that would be embarrassing to him and lessen his

influence with the members of the Church, so we shall speak to the Twelve at

our meetingt in the Temple tomorrow, and tell them that Brother McConkie's

book is not approved as an authoritative book, and that it should not be

republished, even if the errors (some 1,067 of them) are corrected."

Brother Smith agreed with this suggestion to report to the Twelve, and said,

"That is the best thing to do." I then said that Brother McConkie is

advocating by letter some of the principles as printed in his book in answer

to letters he receives. Brother Smith said, "I will speak to him about

that." I then mentioned that he is also speaking on these subjects, and

Brother Smith said, "I will speak to him about that also." I also said that

the First Presidency had decided that General Authorities of the Church

should not publish books without submitting them to some member of the

General Authorities, and President Smith agreed to this as being wise.

- --------------------

Jan. 28, 1960: 8:30 to 9 a.m. Bruce R. McConkie's book. Was engaged in the

meeting of the First Presidency. I reported to my counselors that I had

talked with President Joseph Fielding Smith about the decision that the book

"Mormon Doctrine" should not be republished and about handling the matter to

avoid undermining Elder McConkie's influence. President Smith agreed that

the book should not be republished, and said that he would talk with Brother

McConkie. It was decided that the First Presidency should inform Brother

McConkie before he learns of our decision from some other source, so Brother

McConkie was asked to come into our meeting this morning. When he arrived I

informed him of the desire of the First Presidency with reference to his

book not being republished, to which he agreed. The recommendation was also

made that he answer inquiries on the subject with care. Brother McConkie

said, "I am amenable to whatever you Brethren want. I will do exactly what

you want. I will be as discreet and as wise as I can." In answering

letters he said that he would express no views contrary to views which the

First Presidency has expressed. He said that he would conform in every

respect.

10 a.m. to 2:45 p.m. Was engaged in the meeting of the First Presidency and

Council of the Twelve in the Salt Lake Temple. At Council meeting I

reported to the Brethren our decision regarding Elder Bruce R. McConkie's

book "Mormon Doctrine," stating that it had caused considerable comment

throughout the Church, and that it has been a source of concern to the

Brethren ever since it was published. I said that this book had not been

presented to anyone for consideration or approval until after its

publication. I further said that the First Presidency have given it very

careful consideration, as undoubtedly have some of the Brethren of the

Twelve also, and that the First Presidency now recommend that the book not

be republished; that it be not republished even in corrected form, even

though Brother McConkie mentions in the book that he takes all

responsibility for it; and that it be not recognized as an authoritative

book. I said further that the question has arisen as to whether a public

correction should be made and an addendum given emphasizing the parts which

are unwisely presented or misquoted or incorrect; but it is felt that that

would not be wise because Brother McConkie is one of the General

Authorities, and it might lessen his influence. The First Presicdency

recommend that the situation be left as it is, and whenever a question about

it arises, we can answer that it is unauthoritative, that it was issued by

Brother McConkie on his own responsibility, and he must answer for it.

McConkie on his own responsibility, and he must answer for it. I reported

that the First Presidency had talked with Brother McConkie this morning, and

he said he will do whatever the Brethren want him to do. He will not

attempt to republish the book, nor to say anything by letter, and if he

answers letters or inquiries that he will answer them in accordance with the

suggestions made by the Brethren, and not advocate those things concerning

which question has been raised as contained in the book. The Brethren

unanimously approved of this. I then said that the First Presidency further

recommend that when any member of the General Authorities desires to write a

book, that the Brethren of the Twelve or the First Presidency be consulted

regarding it. While the author need not get the approval of these Brethren,

they should know before it is published that a member of the General

Authorities wants to publish a book. I said it may seem all right for the

writer of the book to say, "_I_ _only_ am responsible for it," but I said

"you cannot separate your position from your individuality, and we should

like the authors to present their books to the Twelve or a Committee

appointed." I asked the Brethren of the Twelve to convey this information

to the other General Authorities. On motion this became the consensus of

the Council.

[MorningStar]

Thanks! I don't have a copy of Mormon Doctrine. Is it online somewhere? I am really curious about the many erroneous statements he made. I should see if my mom still has her copy.

[MorningStar]

I'm especially interested in what he said about these:

4. Communists and Catholics. (Exhibit II-4, pages 26-7, 131)

B. Declaration as to "Mormon Doctrine" on controversial issues.

2. Status of Animals and Plants in the Garden of Eden. (Exhibit III-2, pages

36, 234-35)

3. Meaning of the various accounts of Creation. (Exhibit III-3, pages 157-8,

167-8)

5. Moses as a translated being. (Exhibit III-5, pages 206, 445, 466, 727-8)

6. Origin of Individuality. (Exhibit III-6, page 404)

7. Defiling the priesthood. (Exhibit III-7, page 437)

8. Manner in which Jesus was Begotten. (Exhibit III-8, page 494)

9. Written sermons. (Exhibit III-9, pages 634-5, 716)

10. Resurrection of stillborn children. (Exhibit III-10, page 694)

C. Miscellaneous Interpretations. (Exhibit IV)

Frequency of Administrations, page 22

Status of those "with Christ in His Resurrection," page 128

Consecration of oil, page 147

Limitations on Deity, page 154

Sunday not a proper day for family reunions, page 254

The Holy Ghost a spirit man, page 329

Details on family prayer and asking the blessing on food, page 526

Women to be gods, page 551

Interpretation of Doctrine and Covenants 93:1, page 581

Interpretation of "Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning," page

606

Status of little children in the celestial kingdom, page 607

Time of beginning of seasons, page 616

Interpretation of III Nephi 21:20, page 618

I think my seminary teacher taught a lot of things from this book. He taught us that married couples shouldn't have sex if they are done having babies. He was a nice man, but he got a lot of funny looks from us. Is there anything like that in Mormon Doctrine?

[jwhitlock]

When I was at BYU in the 70's, I found that the general "feeling" among religion professors on campus seemed to be to stay away from the book.

I've read these items before; there was also some discussion about why permission was given in 1966 to republish the book, with corrections. Do you have those references? I can't put my finger on them.

[NeuroTypical]

Some of my favorite quotes:

It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teaching of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear.

You cannot accept the books written by the authorities of the Church as standards in doctrine, only in so far as they accord with the revealed word in the standard works.

Every man who writes is responsible, not the Church, for what he writes. If Joseph Fielding Smith writes something which is out of harmony with the revelations, then every member of the Church is duty bound to reject it. If he writes that which is in perfect harmony with the revealed word of the Lord, then it should be accepted.

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1956, 3:203-4

If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church, were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth.

- President Harold B. Lee, The First Area General Conference for Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, and Spain of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, held in Munich Germany, August 24-26, 1973

What a pity it would be, if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken the influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually. (JD 9:150)

[HiJolly]

I think my seminary teacher taught a lot of things from this book. He taught us that married couples shouldn't have sex if they are done having babies. He was a nice man, but he got a lot of funny looks from us. Is there anything like that in Mormon Doctrine?

I don't know - My mom has a first edition, I've already asked her to leave it to me in her will. I know, that's bad, but... I did it anyway...

And I hope all LDS know that the Church's current position (no pun intended) is that sex is both for procreation and to improve marital relations.

HiJolly

[MorningStar]

Some of my favorite quotes:

Great quotes!

[HiJolly]

When I was at BYU in the 70's, I found that the general "feeling" among religion professors on campus seemed to be to stay away from the book.

I've read these items before; there was also some discussion about why permission was given in 1966 to republish the book, with corrections. Do you have those references? I can't put my finger on them.

No, unfortunately... When I read David O. McKay and the rise of Modern Mormonism earlier this year, I found that it has quite a bit to say about the whole situation. I seem to recall in that book that by the late 60's President McKay was in such poor health that he was easy to get around - this is why his councelors were running most of the operations of the Church. Also, Elder McConkie's father-in-law, Joseph Fielding Smith, was the next prophet of the Church, and during most of the 50's and all of the 60's was the President of the Quorum of the 12.

HiJolly

[The Nehor]

When referring to the book the Gospel Teacher I respect the most used this intro, "In Mormon Doctrine, which is not doctrine......"

[Pa Pa]

This book has sometimes been call the "Stick of Bruce", that says a lot. I love the book and use it sometimes in Sunday school. A book can contain error and still have correct doctrine within it. Example if Darwin in his writings made the statement the "Jesus is the Christ" this would be true even if all else false. There have been some extremely harsh comments in the book that have been removed...such as Blacks holding the priesthood. But all in all it a "good book". So no it is not doctrine (officially)

[Notquitewetyet]

"Baptism in the molten sea" I guess that's referring to the earth celestialized, as a great Urim and Thummim? Is a copy of the original version online? I know I've always seen anti-Mormon works quote it.

[HiJolly]

"Baptism in the molten sea" I guess that's referring to the earth celestialized, as a great Urim and Thummim? Is a copy of the original version online? I know I've always seen anti-Mormon works quote it.

I don't know, I don't know (I'd be surprized), and yes, it seems to make their work a bit easier

HiJolly

[imported_Stargazer]

This book has sometimes been call the "Stick of Bruce", that says a lot. I love the book and use it sometimes in Sunday school. A book can contain error and still have correct doctrine within it. Example if Darwin in his writings made the statement the "Jesus is the Christ" this would be true even if all else false. There have been some extremely harsh comments in the book that have been removed...such as Blacks holding the priesthood. But all in all it a "good book". So no it is not doctrine (officially)

I like the alternate title: "McConkie's Doctrine".

[Jaime]

Most everything that was controversial has been taken out, and so I would say it's a good resource, one which I use for its clarity and depth. However, it isn't official doctrine(in and of itself; it contains things in it which are undoubtedly doctrine), and I believe that's probably what most of the higher ups were upset about when the book was released: its authoritarian tone. McConkie wasn't an apostle when he wrote the book, he was just a seventy, and it was a little bit strange for a seventy to be telling people what was and wasn't doctrine. Spencer Kimball oversaw the changes personally, and after the priesthood declaration in 78, the last remaining controversial bits about race were removed. An example of an opinion of his that's in the book is his belief that you shouldn't use notes when giving a talk, that you should simply let the spirit guide you. Obviously nearly all of us have not followed this rule.

[tefor]

My home teacher's wife told us that when she was 16, she gave a talk in sacrament meeting in which she quoted from MD. Afterwards, her bishop really called her on the carpet and told her that she was not to be quoting from that book. The focus seems to be on using the scriptures and RECENT general conference talks (as opposed to those from the 1960s and 1970s).

On a related note, when my mother-in-law was teaching seminary, she came across the statement in the Miracle of Forgiveness that "your virtue is worth more than your life." She was troubled by that and asked her stake president about it. He told her that it was not doctrine, and that she was not to teach it under any circumstances. (Makes you wonder why Distribution continues to carry MOF...seems like "Believing Christ" is much more in line with current LDS thought.)

[LdsNana]

"Baptism in the molten sea" I guess that's referring to the earth celestialized, as a great Urim and Thummim? Is a copy of the original version online? I know I've always seen anti-Mormon works quote it.

<div align="center">First Kings</div>

<div align="center">Chapter 7</div>

Solomon built himself a house also—For the temple, Hiram of Tyre made the two pillars, the molten sea, the ten bases, the ten lavers, and all the vessels—The molten sea (baptismal font) rests on the backs of twelve oxen.

<div align="center">(NOTE: THIS Chapter Heading ABOVE - is what is written currently in the OT and I did NOT add what you SEE in the parenthesis... I guess Bruce got it right afterall?)</div>

23 ¶ And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

24 And under the brim of it round about there were knops compassing it, ten in a cubit, compassing the sea round about: the knops were cast in two rows, when it was cast.

25 It stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: and the sea was set above upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward.

26 And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two athousand baths.

27 ¶ And he made ten abases of brass; four cubits was the length of one base, and four cubits the breadth thereof, and three cubits the height of it.

28 And the work of the bases was on this manner: they had borders, and the borders were between the ledges:

29 And on the borders that were between the ledges were lions, oxen, and cherubims: and upon the ledges there was a base above: and beneath the lions and oxen were certain additions made of thin work.

These are the directions for the building of Solomon's Temple and certainly bear witness of temple ordinances in general in the Old Testament. Not only baptism can we find in the Old Testament. Many of the teachings of BRM just had not yet been taught by the First Presidency as yet. In other words, he stepped ahead, which is a NO NO.

IT DOES NOT mean that he taught false doctrine. Much of what he taught was correct, thus they did not ever remove his book from the very beginning or censure him. They did edit the book however. Actually I would say most of what he taught was correct doctrine but it was not given a stamp, but left for members to come to for themselves and not given an official status as "truth doctrine"... ie, a stamp of approval.

And yet, even though this younger generation maybe does not feel the weight of this book, certainly those who grew up through the 70, 80 and 90's considered it a very stellar resource. Contrary to what others may think. As well we might enter Joseph Fielding Smith's works, which are bountiful, but most written NOT as

"the" prophet either or highest authority... So he is considered a great authority of doctrine as well. The more you publish... the more credible you become?

Although this is extremely frustrating to members and non-members alike. So they did NOT want BRM stating that these things were THE DOCTRINE, as he can only state them as his opinion, although for the most part, many of them even know darn well that they are TRUTH. But.... a few may not have agreed.

And that is the point... when salvational truths are NOT hanging in the balance, it is BEST to allow individuals to come to truths on their own.

BRM's book can be good for some, but for others and in many cases it causes divisiveness within and without the church, which the church does it's best to avoid.

So, don't toss off that great work that this inspired man offered, and his brethren in Christ also recognized and treated it accordingly. Remember, I believe he was advanced in his priesthood office following publishing this book.

Does this not say something as to how this man was regarded by the Lord Himself?

tdmg,

gVr

ps. Great quotes were posted here on quiding what is DOCTRINE and how to be guided:-) I would read them often.