Have You Been Saved?

[LdsNana]

Receiving the promises of Eternal life. I could refer you to read the ODES OF SOLOMON this is the record of a person who was Quickened [Translated/transfigured] This quickening can last for days...or for thousands of years. This quickening is only partially receiving the power of the resurrection. This is necessary if a person is to meet God in His Glory face to face. Moses was quickened and for the fourty days He was with the Lord....He did not sleep nor eat nor grew tired. So long was his exposure to the glory of God...that Moses continued to glow for 3 days after he left the Lord. He had to wear a vail...because the Israelites were afraid of the Light.

Paul wrote on becoming the Spiritual man....because some the early Christians experienced it and wondered what had happened.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

When we are become the Spiritual man....Christ Himself will come and say..."Ask whatsoever you want and I will do it." This in the past has only been said to the prophets of old because only they moved unto the gospel of perfection in Christ.

So you know...that When Jesus says this to an individual....He knows that this individual will ask according to the will of the Father. When the promises of Eternal life is given to you....for LDS this is exaltation......No one can take your life away from you. You alone are master of your life. And you like the early Christians in order to obtain a better resurrection can opt to die for the glory of God.

Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

You are probably asking yourself why did ABraham and others go to their grave. Well one of the laws of heaven is that is shall be done to you according to your faith.

And so....Ti die in faith.

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

1...These all died in the faith why?

Because they did not receive the promises.

2...What promises?

The promises of Eternal life.

3...Why did they not receive the promises of Eternal life? ..[because they were aware of them].

But having seen them afar off [in a future time]

The great prophets and many patriarchs of old knew about the promises and of Christ and some of them thought that it only applied when Jesus would come. So they saw them afar off.

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When you have read the ODES TO SOLOMON [wisdom]...We can discuss this .....Which in it the author says...that He received a body free from pain and afflictions....that His family and friends no longer recognized him. Etc.

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Do not worry God will awaken more people and they too shall begin to teach the gospel of perfection. I will tell you this no person can receive these promises until he learns to live the Celestial laws while still on the earth. It would be easier if there were a literal Zion where most of the oppositions to our living the higher laws were removed.

For them who do manages to live in this gospel...God will make them Living Fountains....

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

They shall teach this gospel unto others and this gospel is an overcoming gospel which will literally dry the tears of the people of God. It is the power to overcome the world.

And Again no person can do this ...unless He believeth on Jesus as the Scriptures has said [according to the true teachings of Jesus and the Apostles]

John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Also become very familiar with Chapter 11 of Hebrews.

PEace be unto you

bert10

Thank you. These are beautiful passages of scripture, of which I intend to ponder greatly upon today. I will add these truths to that which the spirit has thus far taught... Also, I am most anxious to read the text of ODES TO SOLOMON... would this perhaps be the same Solomon of The Book of Solomon?

Okay, of course we are speaking of one, who while here upon the earth, as did Enoch and his entire city, prior their being taken up, were changed from their mortal state-- to this state between mortality and resurrection, which is most often referred to as being, translated, if it is of length and not just for the moment. Now this entire city did walk and talk with Jesus Christ, while here upon the earth for many years, as did many of the Nephites, after His visit to the Americas...

In teaching my seminary students last year, I wanted them to know that the temple was not the end-all here in their journey on earth, but that it was HOW they would obtain the KEYS, that would allow them to WALK with God, while in the flesh, just as did those in the days of Enoch, and WAS the goal of the early Saints today, but IS their call to DO today, in preparation for His coming, for He will have a people prepared to meet Him!

Now, when an individual receives that promise of Eternal Life, while in the flesh, it is only necessary for them to be changed momentarily, while they are in the Presence of Deity....? This is where I am feeling I may have, perhaps a misunderstanding? Are you saying that when a mortal being of the flesh receives this promise of Eternal Life... they are changed while still in mortality and upon the Earth, to the translated state for the remainder of their time on earth?

If so, this actually makes more sense, when applying to many other verses of scripture off the top of my head... For some reason, I think that I had only put that state to those who were in a sense "gathered"... as in a Zion community, like the City of Enoch... not really thinking you could just be amongst others around you, but in this translated state?

I am off to study for a few hours... and I will check back with you later today. This is a subject of deep import to me, as I have pondered upon it deeply for a time now... I am always touched how the Lord opens the next door and brings to me another teacher. Thank you. I look forward to learning more...

[jax]

other churches dont apset lds are christians and they dont beleve they are saved and if your not saved then you must be going to hell

[HiJolly]

Thank you. These are beautiful passages of scripture, of which I intend to ponder greatly upon today. I will add these truths to that which the spirit has thus far taught... Also, I am most anxious to read the text of ODES TO SOLOMON... would this perhaps be the same Solomon of The Book of Solomon?

I am off to study for a few hours... and I will check back with you later today. This is a subject of deep import to me, as I have pondered upon it deeply for a time now... I am always touched how the Lord opens the next door and brings to me another teacher. Thank you. I look forward to learning more...

Yes, bert10's posts are very good. As for opening doors, as the Hindus say, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

HiJolly

[bert10]

Thank you. These are beautiful passages of scripture, of which I intend to ponder greatly upon today. I will add these truths to that which the spirit has thus far taught... Also, I am most anxious to read the text of ODES TO SOLOMON... would this perhaps be the same Solomon of The Book of Solomon?

Okay, of course we are speaking of one, who while here upon the earth, as did Enoch and his entire city, prior their being taken up, were changed from their mortal state-- to this state between mortality and resurrection, which is most often referred to as being, translated, if it is of length and not just for the moment. Now this entire city did walk and talk with Jesus Christ, while here upon the earth for many years, as did many of the Nephites, after His visit to the Americas...

In teaching my seminary students last year, I wanted them to know that the temple was not the end-all here in their journey on earth, but that it was HOW they would obtain the KEYS, that would allow them to WALK with God, while in the flesh, just as did those in the days of Enoch, and WAS the goal of the early Saints today, but IS their call to DO today, in preparation for His coming, for He will have a people prepared to meet Him!

Now, when an individual receives that promise of Eternal Life, while in the flesh, it is only necessary for them to be changed momentarily, while they are in the Presence of Deity....? This is where I am feeling I may have, perhaps a misunderstanding? Are you saying that when a mortal being of the flesh receives this promise of Eternal Life... they are changed while still in mortality and upon the Earth, to the translated state for the remainder of their time on earth?

If so, this actually makes more sense, when applying to many other verses of scripture off the top of my head... For some reason, I think that I had only put that state to those who were in a sense "gathered"... as in a Zion community, like the City of Enoch... not really thinking you could just be amongst others around you, but in this translated state?

I am off to study for a few hours... and I will check back with you later today. This is a subject of deep import to me, as I have pondered upon it deeply for a time now... I am always touched how the Lord opens the next door and brings to me another teacher. Thank you. I look forward to learning more...

Visitation from God.

There is no need for this change if we are visited in a vision or in a dream. Neither, is there a need for this change to come over us...if God visit us without His Glory. This change to become spiritual is necessary if we are to go into the glory of God or be near the glory of God. For nothing corruptible nor sinful can come into His presence. For example when Jesus rose into the heavens only those who had become the Spiritual man saw Him do it. And at His Baptism the natural men...only heard thunder while others heard the voice of the Father.

In the last days to keep His people safe I do not think that God is going to allow them to come together until the very last minute. For if He were to do so...it would end up like what happened in Zion where God fought fire with fire. And destroyed all the invading armies that the wicked sent against it. His people are all united by the Still Small Voice and are being taught by Him. Not our neighbors not even Satan knows who is being taught of God.

John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

All those who obey God in their heart belongs to the Church of the First Born. In this church there is no need for teachers and pastors for the Father is our teacher and Pastor. In this church there is no need for a prophet to lead us...for all are prophets because all who have the testimony of Jesus have the Spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Numbers 11:29 - And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

You must realize that you cannot teach this in church. When this church is ready to receive these things the Lord will let it come down from its leaders.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[Traveler]

It is not so much that I disagree with anyone – except that I think there is too much emphasis on the wrong thing – or should I say emphasis on things that matter less instead of that which matters more. It is my impression that Christians should be looking forward with hope into eternity and not into the past thinking there is not much else to do.

It appears to me that many asking questions about being saved are looking into the past; much like the rich young man that asked Jesus what was necessary for eternal life. Jesus gave him a forward looking answer when he said to keep the commandments but the man – still looking in the past, said he had all ready done that. Then Jesus gave him another opportunity to look forward when Jesus said to sell all that he had and come follow him. But the man just did not get it – he could not and would not look forward.

The same problem exists when thinking of worthiness because such thoughts and questions are always looking backwards. Let us instead, look to the future and eternity and instead of asking if we are saved asked if we are prepared to be saved and live with G-d and what more can we do – not have to do so we can stop looking to the future thinking we are done. There is a big difference. How can anyone say they are prepared to be saved when they cannot forgive someone (including enemies)? How can we say we are prepared to be saved when we are so in love with one particular sin we keep it, pretending we will never really have to give it up?

I think it is very unwise for anyone to brag about how much better situation they are in when we all are tarnished and need more divine preparation. Let us not give up before we really get started.

The Traveler

[LdsNana]

Visitation from God.

There is no need for this change if we are visited in a vision or in a dream. Neither, is there a need for this change to come over us...if God visit us without His Glory. This change to become spiritual is necessary if we are to go into the glory of God or be near the glory of God. For nothing corruptible nor sinful can come into His presence. For example when Jesus rose into the heavens only those who had become the Spiritual man saw Him do it. And at His Baptism the natural men...only heard thunder while others heard the voice of the Father.

In the last days to keep His people safe I do not think that God is going to allow them to come together until the very last minute. For if He were to do so...it would end up like what happened in Zion where God fought fire with fire. And destroyed all the invading armies that the wicked sent against it. His people are all united by the Still Small Voice and are being taught by Him. Not our neighbors not even Satan knows who is being taught of God.

John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

All those who obey God in their heart belongs to the Church of the First Born. In this church there is no need for teachers and pastors for the Father is our teacher and Pastor. In this church there is no need for a prophet to lead us...for all are prophets because all who have the testimony of Jesus have the Spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Numbers 11:29 - And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

You must realize that you cannot teach this in church. When this church is ready to receive these things the Lord will let it come down from its leaders.

Peace be unto you

bert10

I LOVE this advice that you give... LOL

I only laugh because I KNOW you speak the truth my friend... and I DO take seriously your counsel, believe you me!

Now, I have had a bit of time to read some of the ODES TO SOLOMON today.... beautiful """"" thanks for pointing me to them. I feel I need to read this daily. And have been studying Hebrews...

Will post in the morning... later:-) as I may not make too much sense right now... heavy eyes. long day... perhaps a bit giddy?

[Abraham]

Misty Ann you bring good points which are errors in the knowledge of the gospel and of God. And on these points hang many errors of the Christians. IF you have left LDS teachings for the Christians teachings...then you have left the better part of the gospel.

Jesus Himself stated that if a man is not born of water and of the Spirit he shall not enter into the kingdom of God. Now whether anyone believes baptism is necessary or not....does not matter....by doing the ordinances as specified by the Lord...one keeps His commandments.

Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.

So whether you believe or not in baptism of the water does not matter. If one does as Christ said...then He shall be saved.

Now So far..... I have not found a single Christian that even knows what Born again means. Every single one of them were born again in their imaginations....for many had the forms of Godliness but they had none of the powers that goes with it.

Many Born again claimed to be sinners which is totally in opposition to the Scriptures which state that He who is born of God sinneth not. These do not hear God in their hearts and neither are they taught of God.

Because they are not taught of God they are not given to Christ. For only they who have Heard and learned of the FAther are given to Christ.

John 6:45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Again, you have fallen from the truth into deception you need not remain there. Of a truth.....There is not a Christian alive who will enter into heaven without first going into the gospel of repentance and also have learned to walk in the light as Christ is in the light. The blood of Christ shall cleanse those who walk in the light as Christ is in the light. And who but the LDS teach on this light?

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Peace be unto you

bert10

A good synopsis of Salvation is found in the booklet, "True to the Faith". It helps explain the 2nd spiritual death found in Helaman 14:18. Spiritual death is not just being separated from God. In the Tell & Terr kingdom there is some degree of God's presence (glory), so they do not suffer the second spirutual death. There are very few who will be cursed with that second death (see booklet), which probably means those in outter darkness.

Abraham

[bert10]

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions.

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

[bert10]

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions.

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

Yes, the only persons that are not saved in any kingdoms of God [mansions] are they who become the Sons of perdition...for these the Lord said they were going to the outer darkness. Jude also wrote on this.

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2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

What did Jesus Himself say?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

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3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

See the above words of Jesus......

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4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

This is of the gospel of repentance and these things are required in order to break our hearts of pride and to learn to hear God in our heart.

No person can be saved without the gospel of repentance...for remissions of sin is for them who repent. Satan and his angels took an oath to never repent so they can now never be forgiven of the Lord.

To move on unto perfection this is must do and after wards leave behind

Hebrews 6:1 - THEREFORE leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2 - Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

In this gospel [of repentance] we can fail and return into repentance.

But the Gospel of perfection...if we fail in the things below which is having tasted them...then we cannot be renewed unto repentance because after tasting of the Holy Ghost and reject it...or fallen from it what is there stronger than the Holy Ghost? The Lord said what can season salt after it looses its saltness?

Hebrews 6:4 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 - And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 - If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

I hope this helps.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[a-train]

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

This is difficult to answer because we must first determine the non-LDS defintion for being 'saved'. The LDS position is that Christ, the Saviour of all mankind, has come to save the world from the fall of Adam and its' effects. This includes both temporal death and seperation from the Presence of God, also known as spiritual death.

Although we have an assurance of a universal resurrection and complete salvation of all mankind from temporal death, we are still subject to pass through it. Those yet to be resurrected are therefore, in that sense, yet to be saved from the physical dissolution of the body. However, because the Saviour has been so raised and our resurrection secured, we claim, in that sense, to be saved from death.

With reference to seperation from God, we believe in being born again spiritually while in this life. This re-birth is to an awareness of God and our standing with Him, His kingdom on the earth, and our responsibility of faith and repentance. Once a man has been so born again, He can see the kingdom of God. Upon obtaining such a witness, a man must be born of water and of the spirit, which is baptism of water and of the Holy Ghost, to enter into the kingdom of God on earth. Upon receiving these sacred ordinances, a man obtains the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost and thereby has received the Atonement and in that sense he is saved. However, he must endure to the end and take upon himself the further ordinances of salvation to enter into the Presence of the Father and to partake of exaltation.

The position of the LDS is not one of once saved always saved, nor is it once damned always damned. But rather, a man must be born again and endure to the end. For the LORD said: 'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.' (Matt 7:21)

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

Yes.

3. Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

Yes

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptism for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

The ordinances of salvation are required for salvation, thus the appellation: 'ordinances of salvation'. These precious gifts cannot be bestowed to those without faith in the LORD Jesus Christ or repentance due to the covenants associated with them. A person must have the faith in Christ and the penitent heart necessary to take on those covenants in order to avail themselves of the benefits of the these ordinances, otherwise they are worthless.

It should be here noted, that the responsibility and burden of the administration of these ordinances is vested in Christ and the proclamation and performance thereof is therefore done by those called by him and set apart by Himself or those whom He has placed in authority. We therefore can rest assured that the availability of these ordinances will come to all by His power and we need not fear that any individual will go neglected whether in this life or deceased.

Hope that is at least a start.

-a-train

[Dale]

Salvation from what Evangelicals call hell is a part of LDS salvation. LDS prefer to call it outer darkness though. The idea that salvation by grace means mere resurrection only is not true in my estimation. Mere resurrection without salvation from the bad place is no salvation at all.

LDS express doubts about any type of salvation but it's about a specialized type of salvation. I have heard doubts about getting to the Celestial kingdom, or exaltation. But i never have heard many LDS think they are going to outerdarkness.

With Evangelical people it's important to affirm you are saved from before expressing doubts about any salvation you don't think you might achieve.

[MormonGirl02]

I am interested in the responses to these basic questions.

1. Is the LDS definition of being "saved" different from non LDS?

2. Does one need to be baptized by one with authority to recieve salvation?

3. Is baptizm a requirement for salvation?

4. The first principles of the Gospel are Faith in Christ, Repentence for sins, Baptizm for remission of sins, and reception of the Holy Ghost. Is this needed for salvation or just for exaltation?

1. I'm not sure what you mean by this.

2. Yes, one must be baptized by one with authority to receive salvation.

3. Yes, baptism is a requirement for salvation.

4. I'm not sure.

P.S. I may have gotten one or more of the answers wrong. If I did, I'm sure someone will correct me.