Sin Questions

[amantheycalljayne]

Okay I've been off my mission for a while and have slipped in my activity a little. I have been going to college and met a girl that is okay with doing certain things. We have called it off but before we stopped it we got into trouble. Now I go to a church school where I am afraid to tell my bishop because I could get kicked out of school. Now I know I should tell him right away but PLEASE just help me get the courage. I just would like to know FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD THIS PROBLEM BEFORE what you had to go through for repentance? I know all bishops are different. But I would like to in this ANONYMOUS forum to hear what those who overcame this went through.

Thanks for your Time

Stupid Guy

Okay, Hero of Canton-

This is a family friendly board, so please try to keep the graphical-type details to a minimum. This ain't the time or place for it.

Dong Ma?

Honos

[ztodd]

You know what you gotta do. Don't wait. My opinion is that this is probably not a proper discussion to have on an internet forum...

[the_jason]

Repentance should not be procrastinated, even if it means being kicked out of school. Ztodd is right, this is a private matter between you and the Lord. Address the issue with Him and let the Spirit guide you. Be humble and willing to do whatever is necessary to be forgiven. Good luck.

[amantheycalljayne]

Wow you all responded exactly how I thought you would. Thanks for nothing.

[NeuroTypical]

Sorry you're not getting what you want here. Repentence can be a very personal thing - especially when it's over certain kinds of sins. Please don't feel personally offended if few people are willing to speak openly about their similar situations from their past.

You could check out the other current thread on confession guidelines.

For my part, I've sat in the 'hot seat' in front of the Bishop before. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done. By the end of the process, it was also one of the most freeing, cleansing, healing things I've ever done.

Good luck.

LM

[amantheycalljayne]

So anyways.... Does anybody other than me find it a little wrong that something that is supposed to be between me, the other party, the bishop, possibly the stake president, and the Lord, is within the purview of the Deans of Students? That a real punishment is being affixed to sin? It used to be that way but thats all done away with now. I know several students here that have done way worse than I have and feel really bad about it but will not go talk to their bishop because they are afraid of being kicked out of school.

Whats so bad about being kicked out of school? Well back home you have to lie to everyone about why you left the school or else you will be a pariah. You have to lie especially to your non member friends because it can and in most cases will do harm to the image of the church in their mind. To them these things are like breathing nothing is wrong with it them. You have to move home, moving is a horrific punishment on its own. Get a new job, a place to live if you parents are letting you come back home. Then if you want to continue school somewhere else you have to explain to them why you got kicked out of the last school you went to, worry about whether your credits will transfer, if you are taking your major specific classes they will not transfer, and have to come up with an excuse to tell your new student ward for leaving your old school right in the middle. So I see social, financial, and school specific punishments affixed to these sins (and remember this is specific to this school).

I can totally see why some people just don't confess here. They say like me, "Can't I just get stoned to near death and get on with my life?"

[amantheycalljayne]

Sorry you're not getting what you want here. Repentence can be a very personal thing - especially when it's over certain kinds of sins. Please don't feel personally offended if few people are willing to speak openly about their similar situations from their past.

You could check out the other current thread on confession guidelines.

For my part, I've sat in the 'hot seat' in front of the Bishop before. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done. By the end of the process, it was also one of the most freeing, cleansing, healing things I've ever done.

Good luck.

LM

And thank you for at least humoring me a little. Yeah I've been in the hot seat too, you're totally right about how it feels. I really would like to but I'm having a problem with the whole possibly being kicked out of school thing. Its a completely temporal thing thats lodged itself in the middle of my spiritual conflict. I mean it would be an extremely big pain to have to move home, find a new job, and start school again losing about a year or so of credits in the process. I know this should not be a problem but it is. I have this thought along with others of why not just wait until you are graduated to confess all of this?

[amantheycalljayne]

Repentance should not be procrastinated, even if it means being kicked out of school. Ztodd is right, this is a private matter between you and the Lord. Address the issue with Him and let the Spirit guide you. Be humble and willing to do whatever is necessary to be forgiven. Good luck.

Correction its between me, the Lord and the Dean of Students.

[ztodd]

So anyways.... Does anybody other than me find it a little wrong that something that is supposed to be between me, the other party, the bishop, possibly the stake president, and the Lord, is within the purview of the Deans of Students? That a real punishment is being affixed to sin? It used to be that way but thats all done away with now. I know several students here that have done way worse than I have and feel really bad about it but will not go talk to their bishop because they are afraid of being kicked out of school.

Whats so bad about being kicked out of school? Well back home you have to lie to everyone about why you left the school or else you will be a pariah. You have to lie especially to your non member friends because it can and in most cases will do harm to the image of the church in their mind. To them these things are like breathing nothing is wrong with it them. You have to move home, moving is a horrific punishment on its own. Get a new job, a place to live if you parents are letting you come back home. Then if you want to continue school somewhere else you have to explain to them why you got kicked out of the last school you went to, worry about whether your credits will transfer, if you are taking your major specific classes they will not transfer, and have to come up with an excuse to tell your new student ward for leaving your old school right in the middle. So I see social, financial, and school specific punishments affixed to these sins (and remember this is specific to this school).

I can totally see why some people just don't confess here. They say like me, "Can't I just get stoned to near death and get on with my life?"

I can understand your feelings. That would be a really hard thing to go through. But I hope I can make a point here, and pray that you can take it the right way...

There are certain sins that require church discipline, such as being released from callings, dis-fellowshipped, and sometimes if the sin is serious enough, revoking of priesthood and baptism. Now I don't know if your sins fit under any of those things, and we don't need to discuss that at all. But if I had to be subjected to that kind of church discipline, it would be even more publicly embarrassing to me than being kicked out of school. Again, maybe church discipline of these kinds won't apply to you, I don't know... it's left up to you, your bishop, and the Lord how serious the sin is... I guess my point is that repenting of sin sometimes requires things that make it publicly known that something is wrong, and that the person is going through repentance for something of a serious nature. The public does not need to know the details of the indiscretion however. The dean of students doesn't need to know the details. Even the bishop doesn't need to know every single detail - he only serves as a judge in Israel to help determine the seriousness of it.

It's true people outside the church don't consider certain commandments to be as serious as we do. They haven't had the same teachings that we have had. You probably know the scripture; where much is given, much is required.

[the_jason]

So anyways.... Does anybody other than me find it a little wrong that something that is supposed to be between me, the other party, the bishop, possibly the stake president, and the Lord, is within the purview of the Deans of Students?

The school has standards, and you knew the standards before you enrolled and chose to ignore them. Don't blame the school for any potential discipline. It doesn't sound like you are taking responsibility for your actions but rather blaming

others for being too strict. You messed up. It happens to a lot of people. If you are truly penitent you will do whatever is necessary to be forgiven.

[amantheycalljayne]

I can understand your feelings. That would be a really hard thing to go through. But I hope I can make a point here, and pray that you can take it the right way...

There are certain sins that require church discipline, such as being released from callings, dis-fellowshipped, and sometimes if the sin is serious enough, revoking of priesthood and baptism. Now I don't know if your sins fit under any of those things, and we don't need to discuss that at all. But if I had to be subjected to that kind of church discipline, it would be even more publicly embarrassing to me than being kicked out of school. Again, maybe church discipline of these kinds won't apply to you, I don't know... it's left up to you, your bishop, and the Lord how serious the sin is... I guess my point is that repenting of sin sometimes requires things that make it publicly known that something is wrong, and that the person is going through repentance for something of a serious nature. The public does not need to know the details of the indiscretion however. The dean of students doesn't need to know the details. Even the bishop doesn't need to know every single detail - he only serves as a judge in Israel to help determine the seriousness of it.

It's true people outside the church don't consider certain commandments to be as serious as we do. They haven't had the same teachings that we have had. You probably know the scripture; where much is given, much is required.

Yes that is very true. I cant remember where but its talks about how public sins are publicly punished and so on. This was not public but it would be very public in my circle of friends if I got publicly punished AND here they don't play by the same rules....

[DrewM]

Okay I've been off my mission for a while and have slipped in my activity a little. I have been going to college and met a girl that is okay with doing certain things. We have called it off but before we stopped it we got into trouble. Now I go to a church school where I am afraid to tell my bishop because I could get kicked out of school. Now I know I should tell him right away but PLEASE just help me get the courage. I just would like to know FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD THIS PROBLEM BEFORE what you had to go through for repentance? I know all bishops are different. But I would like to in this ANONYMOUS forum to hear what those who overcame this went through.

Thanks for your Time

Stupid Guy

Okay, Hero of Canton-

This is a family friendly board, so please try to keep the graphical-type details to a minimum. This ain't the time or place for it.

Dong Ma?

Honos

Having been in a student ward bishopric, I doubt you'll get kicked out of school. Bishops cannot, because of confidentiality, tell on you. On the other hand, some bishops may ask that you bring it out in the open and report yourself. I think that's unusual, however.

PS I might add, I've sat in the "hot seat" before. The guy on the other end, well, it was my dad. It was tough but well worth it.

[MorningStar]

I don't think you will get kicked out of school either. My husband's roommate had major problems and he didn't get kicked out of BYU until he was excommunicated. Actually, his other roommate had problems too and he stayed too. That kind of sucked though because both of them kept leaving porn laying around the apartment, so I can see why they would kick some people out if they're affecting people who came to BYU for a nice LDS atmosphere.

[NeuroTypical]

So anyways.... Does anybody other than me find it a little wrong that something that is supposed to be between me, the other party, the bishop, possibly the stake president, and the Lord, is within the purview of the Deans of Students?

Maybe I can shed a little light.

The burden of sin on your soul is between you and the Lord (and His representatives).

Repentance may or may not remove consequences. Facing consequences is usually part of repenting.

Whats so bad about being kicked out of school? Well back home you have to lie to everyone about why you left the school or else you will be a pariah. You have to lie especially to your non member friends because it can and in most cases will do harm to the image of the church in their mind.

If the choice is lie (sin again) or pariah, you're supposed to choose pariah. But I'm not sure you'd be faced with such a choice. What's wrong with figuring out plan B, and saying "It wasn't working out, so I decided on plan B instead"? For that matter, what's wrong with "Mind your own business"? You're not responsible for other's gossip.

I can totally see why some people just don't confess here. They say like me, "Can't I just get stoned to near death and get on with my life?"

Yep. Consequences can stink. And they can be permanent. All I'm saying, is don't underestimate the value of a life lived free of the burden of sin. You may only see the downside of repenting, but God will not leave you hanging.

And, as other people have mentioned, you may or may not get kicked out of school. Again, sin=soul's concern. Consequences over breaking your solemn word/student code = world's concern. And the world loves contrite sorrow.

In order for me to sit down in the 'hotseat', I had to face the possibility of all sorts of awful consequences. It makes no sense to tell you which ones I had to face and which ones I was spared, since my situation is different than yours.

Again, good luck.

LM

[Tamrajh]

I've been lurking on the forum for the past 2 weeks but absolutely had to respond to this. I've become somewhat of an expert at having to repent for serious sins (unfortunately). Not everyone learns their lesson the first or second time around.

What I've learned is this. The longer you wait, the worse you will feel and the more animosity you will feel towards those around you whether they're involved in your situation or not. The more anger you will build up towards yourself for having made such a mistake to begin with. One that you knew better than to do anyway. When you meet with the Bishop and possibly Stake President you may not feel like accepting their recommendations because of the anger that you have built up. Instead of going through the process of humility and learning, it will be a process to just get through and dance the dance they say you need to do. There will be no real learning and growing involved.

I wish you all the luck in the world, no matter what you decide to do. Be careful though, anger is a powerful weapon of the devil and will do you more damage than you can imagine. I would get rid of it as soon as possible if I were you, no matter what the consequences were.

[amantheycalljayne]

I don't think you will get kicked out of school either. My husband's roommate had major problems and he didn't get kicked out of BYU until he was excommunicated. Actually, his other roommate had problems too and he stayed too. That kind of sucked though because both of them kept leaving porn laying around the apartment, so I can see why they would kick some people out if they're affecting people who came to BYU for a nice LDS atmosphere.

Well I am at BYU-Idaho, where every molehill is a mountain. But thanks for sharing your experiences! Thats more what I needed to hear about. :-)

[amantheycalljayne]

You know I would love to just go right in a tell the bishop BUT like I've been saying you never know. If I were to get kicked out of school it would mean probably 1 to 3 years just to get back to where I am today. BUT if I wait a little while, delay my repentance, I will not have to worry about losing THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MY SINS AND HAVE WORKED SO VERY HARD FOR. Thats it. I think my original question was a little muddled up by the admin. I mean the only reason I am asking around is because I want some assurances that I will not get improper punishment. Getting kicked out of school would be the equivalent of being stoned to death financially for me. It would probably take at least a year to get enough saved to buy a DECENT car so I could drive to college at home, then I would have to see what credits transfer and start over as roughly a Sophomore-Junior. I mean as a punishment for going to 3rd base I think the above is not only inappropriate for the sin but waaaaaay overkill.

And remember, I really didn't want to bring the name of the school into this, I go to BYU-Idaho: Where every molehill is a mountain. I mean one time I almost got kicked out for going camping with girls in a separate tent. We really had no idea that was wrong, in fact we were told by many that as long as the girls are in a separate tent its fine. Not to mention we heard all the time and still hear all the time of people going camping and thinking its okay as long as the girls are in a different tent. But we were treated as if we had committed mass murder! And there are others that have similar stories. I guess the gnats here are worse than the rest of the world...

[DrewM]

You know I would love to just go right in a tell the bishop BUT like I've been saying you never know. If I were to get kicked out of school it would mean probably 1 to 3 years just to get back to where I am today. BUT if I wait a little while, delay my repentance, I will not have to worry about losing THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MY SINS AND HAVE WORKED SO VERY HARD FOR. Thats it. I think my original question was a little muddled up by the admin. I mean the only reason I am asking around is because I want some assurances that I will not get improper punishment. Getting kicked out of school would be the equivalent of being stoned to death financially for me. It would probably take at least a year to get enough saved to buy a DECENT car so I could drive to college at home, then I would have to see what credits transfer and start over as roughly a Sophomore-Junior. I mean as a punishment for going to 3rd base I think the above is not only inappropriate for the sin but waaaaaay overkill.

And remember, I really didn't want to bring the name of the school into this, I go to BYU-Idaho: Where every molehill is a mountain. I mean one time I almost got kicked out for going camping with girls in a separate tent. We really had no idea that was wrong, in fact we were told by many that as long as the girls are in a separate tent its fine. Not to mention we heard all the time and still hear all the time of people going camping and thinking its okay as long as the girls are in a different tent. But we were treated as if we had committed mass murder! And there are others that have similar stories. I guess the gnats here are worse than the rest of the world...

Like I said, I don't think you'll get kicked out of school. I think you'd be surprised how many students make that kind of mistake. However, you must be willing to face consequences. If not, you're not repentant. If you're not repentant, you might face greater consequences than getting kicked out of school. I suggest you seek the strength to say "Dear Lord, I have made a big mistake. I'm scared of the consequences, but I'm scared more of my sins and their consequences. Give me strength to do what is right. I only want to make Thee happy." I think you'll be surprised how merciful the Lord is with those who repent, and how terrible and just He is with those who fear man more than God.

[DrewM]

Some things your bishop may consider:

1. Was this a repeated offense?

2. Have you had this problem with more than one girl?

3. Did you initiate such activities, did she, or was it mutual?

4. How are you doing in other areas like tithing, church attendance, scripture study, prayer, magnify your callings, etc?

5. How long did you wait to confess this problem?

6. Have you sought forgiveness from those you have offended (when appropriate)?

For a transgression of the sort you named (if I understood correctly), you probably will not have a formal church court if you're truly repentant.

EDIT: Remember, there is no dishonor in making a mistake, even a serious one, and seeking forgiveness. However, people who sin and cover their sins are cowards.

[MorningStar]

Hi again,

I just wanted to share a thought I just had. Hopefully this will come out right. :)

It is very scary for you to confess and face the possibility of getting kicked out of school, but this will be a good growing experience for you no matter what happens and you will probably be much more likely to avoid these things in the first place, I think. If you make a habit of hiding your sins to avoid painful consequences, how likely are you to be honest with your wife in the future if you do something that would upset her terribly? It would be even scarier to face losing your family. I know getting kicked out of school seems like such a horrible thing, but it pales in comparison to shattering trust in your marriage. Also, you will respect yourself much more if you come clean immediately. Consider couples who don't repent until they want to go through the temple. They must wonder if they had the "sin now, repent later" attitude.

A very close relative of mine had the date set for her wedding. The invitations were sent and so many arrangements were already made. When she and her fiance messed up during their engagement, they immediately went to the bishop and confessed, then they told everyone in the family. I was proud of her. I said, "At least you didn't go to the temple unworthily to avoid embarrassment. I have way more respect for you than people who go anyway." She was a little surprised - still ashamed of what she had done, but she had our support 100% In this case, she found it necessary to share this information because of how it affected the family monetarily and travel wise.

Be strong. I know you can do it. You will be blessed for it even if you don't like the outcome.

:)

[~Sarah~]

Here's an idea. Tell your Bishop you have something you need to repent, and that you will only talk to him if he can assure you it will be confidential and not go to the dean of students. I bet you he will be willing to help you out with that.