So, you remember that week I had that struggle with Free Will? Good news...

[CommanderSouth]

That title isn't meant to be too flippant.  The last week has been utter torment, and I may struggle with it all the rest of my life.  I legit thought about going back to the mental health facility I visited a few months ago.  As you may remember, to make all seem too simple, I got caught up in the chicken and egg question. For all the trouble I had, I was just trying to solve this question, and being able to be a bit more removed from the hyper focus I had on it (I was looking beyond the mark), I have more clarity.  In fact a challenge I am facing, is in light of this truth, I feel like I am hooked up to a firehose of truth, and I need to turn it down, because everything seems to be coming so fast now.  I know I have a lot to catch up on.   There are many ideas that I understand are true now, even as I type this I my mind is racing and making new connections, realizing new truths, which is to say I'm coming to know things I already knew, but in a deeper sense.  So pray for me I don't look beyond the mark in a good thing of seeking and finding truth, and in turn hurt myself by running faster than I am able.  The good thing is I'm learning truth, I just need to stop wearing myself out

I wanted to share my journal entry today.  Today has been a coalescence of all of the struggle, back and forth, truth, misunderstanding, and confusion I have dealt with during this time I have questioned Free Will and existence.  This is me working together the puzzle pieces, and I did that over the course of a drive home from my in laws, with my wife in the car.  I talked and she listened, though she was happy, she also had agreed with me, and had felt this way for years, so a bit of the excitement was surprising to her.  When I did this entry,I honestly wrote it with the ability to share it in mind, so the super sacred bits (AKA, the bits that are only meant for me ) are left out.  I also wrote so I could remember, remember, that I know I have felt to sing the song of redeeming love.  That is to say, I know I'll get pushback from Satan later, it honestly happened DURING the day today, while I was going through all of this.  So my wife said I should journal it, and thus I did.

If you don't have a few minutes, come back later.  This is a stupid long wall of text, with a swath of quotes.  But it is also long enough to be self sufficient, and not a fragment I have to fix later.

===

 

Ok, so I HAVE a testimony.

This is going to be difficult, incomplete, and not fully worded well enough.  I have received pure revelation.  I have received a testimony of the Gospel.  The words I use will be my own, but they will never truly express what I know.  Before I begin, I am going to argue from a rejection of creation “ex nihilo” (out of nothing).  Because nothing being turned into something is a contradiction.  It’s a married bachelor, nothing is nothing because it does not exist.  God can’t make a married bachelor, because those things are not possible.  If you believe that, you could also say “God can Lie” and if he could, he wouldn’t be God, because we know God can’t lie.  Something can’t be itself and it’s opposite, or it would negate itself, and not exist.  So that was too many words, but anyway, beyond that, let’s go!

 

To quote the prophet Joseph Smith.

 

Doctrine and Covenants 128: 18

I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands.

 

And that is a sufficiently plain to suit my purpose.  And that is how I intend to render this testimony.

 

I have come to discover truth, diamond truth as McConkie would say, eternal truth as I would say.

 

And he DID in fact say just that in the devotional Seven Deadly Heresies.

 

Now let me list some axioms (I guess in academic circles we call these caveats):

 

—There is no salvation in believing a false doctrine.

 

—Truth, diamond truth, truth unmixed with error, truth alone leads to salvation.

 

—What we believe determines what we do.

 

—No man can be saved in ignorance of God and his laws.

 

—Man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge of Jesus Christ and the saving truths of his everlasting gospel.

 

—Gospel doctrines belong to the Lord, not to men. They are his. He ordained them, he reveals them, and he expects us to believe them.

 

—The doctrines of salvation are not discovered in a laboratory or on a geological field trip or by accompanying Darwin around the world. They come by revelation and in no other way.

 

—Our sole concern in seeking truth should be to learn and believe what the Lord knows and believes. Providentially he has set forth some of his views in the holy scriptures.

 

—Our goal as mortals is to gain the mind of Christ, to believe what he believes, to think what he thinks, to say what he says, to do what he does, and to be as he is.

 

—We are called upon to reject all heresies and cleave unto all truth. Only then can we progress according to the divine plan. As the Lord has said,

 

Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

 

And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come. [D&C 130:18–19]

 

Which, reading these now, I believe every single point.  I think there is some flourish that is McConkie, but that’s here nor there

 

So Eternal Truth 1:

It must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things.

From 2 Nephi:

 

11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

 

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

 

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

 

From Abraham 3: (This skips 18 and 20)

17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it.

...

19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

...

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

 

From one of Joseph Smith’s last sermons, the “King Follet Sermon/Discourse”

I have another subject to dwell upon, which is calculated to exalt man; but it is impossible for me to say much on this subject. I shall therefore just touch upon it, for time will not permit me to say all. It is associated with the subject of the resurrection of the dead—namely, the soul—the mind of man —the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation. I do not believe the doctrine; I know better. Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so; and if you don’t believe me, it will not make the truth without effect. I will make a man appear a fool before I get through; if he does not believe it. I am going to tell of things more noble.

 

We say that God Himself is a self-existing being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. (Refers to the Bible.) How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says, “God made man out of the earth and put into him Adam’s spirit, and so became a living body.”

 

The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal [co-eternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their relatives and friends are only separated from their bodies for a short season: their spirits which existed with God have left the tabernacle of clay only for a little moment, as it were; and they now exist in a place where they converse together the same as we do on the earth.

 

I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it has a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven.

 

I want to reason more on the spirit of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the housetops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.

 

Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

 

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.

 

This is good doctrine. It tastes good. I can taste the principles of eternal life, and so can you. They are given to me by the revelations of Jesus Christ; and I know that when I tell you these words of eternal life as they are given to me, you taste them, and I know that you believe them. You say honey is sweet, and so do I. I can also taste the spirit of eternal life. I know that it is good; and when I tell you of these things which were given me by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, you are bound to receive them as sweet, and rejoice more and more.

 

With this as a basis, I will say that a plain enough understanding of “opposition in all things” can be that “all things are not one”.    I know I exist.  I also know my wife exists.  We are separate beings, or as I am beginning to call it, “wills” (I am fond of the idea of a Phylote in Xenocide, from the Ender Saga, the chapter on Free Will gives a plain enough rendering of what I think, so read it if you like).  Since we are separate wills, we are both eternal, and if these two spirits exists, one is above another (probably her ) And another above us, and God is greater than all.

And I repeat from Joseph (this is spliced from above)

God himself could not create himself.

 

The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal [co-eternal] with God himself.

 

Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

 

And from Doctrine and Covenants 93:

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

 

30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

 

31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

 

32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

 

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

 

34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

 

35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

 

36 The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth.

 

37 Light and truth forsake that evil one.

 

So what exists and is eternal is the mind or intelligence of man, that is susceptible of enlargement.  I can render a plainer version, but I’m taking so long, I need to stop myself.  Suffice it to say that when you combine these all together it paints a picture. (Like a Buffalo Drawing, you need to take it  as a drawing and the intention, that is, a buffalo.  Do not focus on the literal graphite flakes on wood pulp.  They may be true, but you miss the point.  You do what the Book of Mormon calls in Jacob 4, looking beyond the mark.  In a way, they rejected the Buffalo in favor of the graphite flakes on wood pulp.  They wanted more than plainness, they wanted to keep going, which while you CAN do, you can become blind to the bigger picture.

 

14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

 

So all of this is to say, all existence is based on intelligence doing what intelligence wants to do everything in existence is to a degree, intelligent, it has a will.   So if you go all the way to bedrock, the eternal basis of existence is again, uncaused “wills” or Phylotes, or Intelligences, doing what they want. That will may manifest in apparently deterministic behavior, but it’s doing it because it wills it.  It IS the cause, and it IS eternal.  And since we know that existence manifests as an infinite variety of things, trees, cars, people, plants, animals, we know that “opposition in all things” or a “differentiation” in all things, exists. 

 

It is often said that the only thing we have to give God is our will, at least in the protestant circles I grew up in.  The believe was, the only thing you can give your God, is yourself, because he doesn’t have you.  I believed that then, and I believe it now.  But the problem is, I didn’t take the time to realize what that actually means (and I doubt many that say it do, but I could be wrong).  Anyway.  If God doesn’t “have” my will, it means he didn’t CREATE my will.  It means that my will (whatever that word fully entails, because I can only describe it in a broad sense) HAS to be uncaused.  And since I am uncaused, I am :

 

• Like God in nature (Not better than, or even equal to, just LIKE)

• Not the only thing in existence

 

And since those two fact are evident, there is...

 

An opposition in all things.

 

During that fun trip, we also learn/infer some other eternal truths, including aspects of the nature of God (though not expounded super well) and eternity and eternal things (also not spelled out as well I would like right now) but I’m tired, and this simple idea (and I argue, eternal truth) has taken almost an hour and a half to type up.  But this being true tells me that Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, the Doctrine and Covenants is the Pearl of Great Price is true, and since the only group in general (churches aside) that believes all of those things is the LDS church, I am willing to take the step of faith to say the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the church for me to be in. I could say that in a more pointed manner, but I’m not in the mood to say things to invite discussion.  I’m just saying that given the information I have found, I am accepting it on faith as true.  Because while I feel like I learned a LOT, I’m not omniscient yet, but I also fully believe it.  I have had a trial of my faith, and I have received this witness (also a Book of Mormon idea, which furthers the feedback loop of it’s truth in my mind, but again, I’m tired )

know several layers of this logic are self reliant.  This entire blob could be reduced to, It’s true because it’s true.  And I see that.  As much as I’d love to continue (and I will), I’m done for now.  I’ll discuss my hot takes on eternal things soon.  I’m shutting off my brain, I’m not taking input, I’m not looking for refinement.  I’m just basking where I am.  If I need to change or revise it, I’m open to that, and will.  But not now, I need this moment.  I’ve fought HARD for this moment.  I almost started considering going to the mental health facility because of this mental work I’ve been doing.  Which makes this moment a blessing, and honestly one of the most supernal and incomparable

In my life.  I know if I did my due diligence there could be others, but for right now, I’m celebrating this win. One last fun little quip.  I wish I had the faith and belief before, because they would have helped me during this struggle.  But as is the case in life, while it would have helped, to be sure, that just isn’t how life works.  Enos wrestled and THEN got the awesome rewards. (See Book of Mormon feedback loop, lol). There are more good examples of this, but if I keep going, I’ll keep going, so I won’t, so I won’t

[CommanderSouth]

I will also say though, my mental state is a bit chaotic right now.  I realized I have been off some of my meds for 2 days accidentally, they aren't hard anti anxiety pills, so I don't think it's some type of withdrawal.  Just that realizing it, I figure it's contributing to me not being as calm as I need to be, and being a bit more racing.  So I feel there is a great degree of truth in here, but I am also realizing elements of the rambling nature of some of this is a result of my overall mental health, which I need to continue to improve, and I am doing.

Edited November 20, 2023 by CommanderSouth
More Context.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Bro.  Sounds like you're working your way through some things - hope things work out. I remember being so stuck on this or that idea or doubt, that I wasn't moving forward.  25 years ago was quite a hard time for me.  Hope you can find your way through stuff.

Not sure what your meds are, but if they're prescribed by a physician, I'd say make sure you stop forgetting to take them. 

 

[mikbone]

Lots of good scriptures that you quoted above.  Some of my favorites.  

Many truths and layered information.

Esoteric doctrine is fun to study and can be enlightening.

But only simple core doctrines provide salvation.

God - both the Father and the Son love you and all their children.

Jesus Christ is our Savior, the atonement was performed on an individual basis as opposed to a humanity as a whole. 

Keep the commandments.  Which entails repentance as necessary.

Experience joy as God intended.

Keep sharing eternal truths with others.

 

D&C 130: 

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

 

Notice that intelligence does not come from study and uncovering mysteries.  It comes from diligence and obedience.

Knowledge or information in and of itself can be dangerous if not applied correctly. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by mikbone

[CommanderSouth]

14 hours ago, mikbone said:

Lots of good scriptures that you quoted above.  Some of my favorites.  

Many truths and layered information.

Esoteric doctrine is fun to study and can be enlightening.

But only simple core doctrines provide salvation.

God - both the Father and the Son love you and all their children.

Jesus Christ is our Savior, the atonement was performed on an individual basis as opposed to a humanity as a whole. 

Keep the commandments.  Which entails repentance as necessary.

Experience joy as God intended.

Keep sharing eternal truths with others.

 

D&C 130: 

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

 

Notice that intelligence does not come from study and uncovering mysteries.  It comes from diligence and obedience.

Knowledge or information in and of itself can be dangerous if not applied correctly. 

Like hooking your mouth up to a firehose

My mind feels like I went from nothing being true, to there being so much truth I can't contain it all! (And I know I actually can't in this life, so it's... overwhelming)

But in all seriousness, the simple part is true.  I am still overwhelmed with how much truth there is.  It's like walking with your head down for your entire life and finally looking up and noticing every few feet there is another path you could take and explore, and those branch even more, like an infinite tree.  Sharing it with others, in my mind, even brings MORE paths, and it's a fight to not go down every rabbit hole.  Not flesh out every idea.  At this moment I feel like Charlie Day in Always Sunny, I see the meme where he looks crazy and has all the yarn pinned to the wall.  I'm fighting that urge now, because I have realized I am impossibly inundated with beautiful choices, and I can't do them all at once. Which is itself another true and beautiful choice/truth of "Do not run faster than you are able".  That's a core one I'm working into myself so I don't go crazy  So, is it chemicals in my head influencing my thought patterns, is it God revealing truth?  I am accepting it as God initiated, subprime mental state pushing too far... My plan is to just keep it simple and as you said, enjoy life as God intended.

Edited November 20, 2023 by CommanderSouth
Clarity