Intelligences

[broadway]

Intelligences

I was pondering what intelligences were as spoken of in LDS scripture.

Abraham 3:21-22 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

I think that another way of thinking of intelligence might be “an existence of awareness” or “non-spirit entity”

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It seems to me that everything has these intelligences in it.

Matthew 17: 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

How else could the mountain recognize the command, then follow it? It must be that it has intelligence in it.

Sounds much like the Eastern Religions to me. And why not? Our prophet has said that every faith has an element of truth in it.

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Also, with this in mind, I was thinking about poor saps such as Judas Iscariot who was created for a particular purpose and then was punished for it…Now, the question is this.

Why would Heavenly Father create a spirit with a personality, weakness etc. that was bent towards doing this terrible thing, then set him up in the proper circumstances to do this thing, then punish him for it as severely as any son of perdition will be punished?

We all know that intelligences cannot be created.

D&C 93 : 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

So, could intelligences refer to something somewhat close to our personalities, or at least what makes us who we are? Could it be that God didn’t create a being’s personality that would surely make this person fall?

Another view of this particular thing is that God doesn’t give us any temptation that we cannot overcome. So Lucifer had what it took to resist the temptation, he used his free will not to. God gave us weaknesses to help us progress. God puts us in hard situations to help us grow. Perhaps, He knew that Judas had a problem with greed and chose to put him in charge of the treasury in order to help him grow out of that weakness (same way an impatient person is inevitably called to be the Nursery Teacher). Judas could have withstood this temptation, but used his freewill not to. So he was punished for it. This particular theory could involve ‘intelligences’ or not. Either would work here.

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Also, along the lines of everything having these intelligences, what seperates our 'intelligence' from the mountains or a bug or a fence? Are 'bug intelligences' different than the intelligences that will evetually become a human? If not, then is it possible that the intelligences that are around us right now will eventually become spirits and then embodied? This is also somewhat close to Eastern Religions.

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That was a lot to think about at once, I know. But I hope you found it as interesting to think about as I did. I hope that you will post your thoughts about it.

broadway

-I added color and seperation lines to make it easier to read and more interesting.

[Guest Starsky]

D&C 130:

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.

I believe that 'intelligence' is pure love. And I believe pure love is charity. I believe charity is power ...the more you have the greater your power over this earth and it's elements. The more you have when you die, the greater advantage you will have in the world to come.

I believe we were intelligences before this world was because we were off spring of a God who is love (Acts 17:28,

1 Jn. 4: 8 )

[Traveler]

Intelligence spoken of in Abraham is spirit and is eternal and cannot die. Only that which is physical can be corrupted in death.

A thought - the word salvation comes from the same root as salvage. Could it be that - that which is spiritual is salvaged and that which is physical must be cleansed by various processes - such as burning? Thus the symbol of the mediator that comes with a sword and/of fire - that keeps the way to the tree of life with a flaiming sword.

Once made clean that which was corruptable will be come incorreptable.

The Traveler

[Guest Buddy]

I dont know if this is the kind of reply you are loking for but I would like to relate an experience my mom had in relation to this subject. She was pondering what intelligence looked like and why some intelligences become spiders or bugs while others become sons and daughters of god. She was suddenly traveling through space at great speed and then came to a stop. Before her was what she described as a huge cloud which she knew was intelligence. Then she was traveling again and came to a stop very close to this cloud. Here she saw that this cloud was made up of an innumerable host of small individual entities. She heard the voice of God ask "Who desires to be added upon?" Some of these intelligences motioned somehow that this was their desire. These went through what Mom described as a series of schools each dropping out as they would choose whereupon they would recieve a body according to the amount of intelligence obtained. Some becoming spiders, some beasts of the field and others continued until they became spirit sons and daughters of God. One of the greatest things she learned from this was that OUR AGENCY IS NEVER TAMPERED WITH. What we are or become is completely a product of our choice. Even the Sons of Perdition have chosen to become such.

Buddy

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Buddy@May 18 2004, 01:35 PM

These went through what Mom described as a series of schools each dropping out as they would choose whereupon they would recieve a body according to the amount of intelligence obtained.

At this point, do you mean they received a body of spirit or a physical body?

[broadway]

Originally posted by Buddy@May 18 2004, 02:35 PM

I dont know if this is the kind of reply you are loking for but I would like to relate an experience my mom had in relation to this subject.  She was pondering what intelligence looked like and why some intelligences become spiders or bugs while others become sons and daughters of god.  She was suddenly traveling through space at great speed and then came to a stop.  Before her was what she described as a huge cloud which she knew was intelligence.  Then she was traveling again and came to a stop very close to this cloud.  Here she saw that this cloud was made up of an innumerable host of small individual entities.  She heard the voice of God ask "Who desires to be added upon?"  Some of these intelligences motioned somehow that this was their desire.  These went through what Mom described as a series of schools each dropping out as they would choose whereupon they would recieve a body according to the amount of intelligence obtained.  Some becoming spiders,  some beasts of the field and others continued until they became spirit sons and daughters of God.  One of the greatest things she learned from this was that OUR AGENCY IS NEVER TAMPERED WITH.  What we are or become is completely a product of our choice.  Even the Sons of Perdition have chosen to become such.

Buddy

I found your post extremely interesting. You never said how she was traveling in space. Did she have a dream, a vision, a revelation? How did she describe gaining this knowledge?

Honestly, I am apt to believe this. I felt something as I read it. Has she told anyone about this? This is an amazing account of something potentially spectacular.

Even if this isn't a true account of our 'intelligence existance', it is certainly a great way of thinking about it in order to try to understand it more. I appreciate your sharing this with me. I would like to hear more about it. I will be praying about this to see if there is something to this.

broadway

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Buddy@May 18 2004, 01:35 PM

I dont know if this is the kind of reply you are loking for but I would like to relate an experience my mom had in relation to this subject. She was pondering what intelligence looked like and why some intelligences become spiders or bugs while others become sons and daughters of god. She was suddenly traveling through space at great speed and then came to a stop. Before her was what she described as a huge cloud which she knew was intelligence. Then she was traveling again and came to a stop very close to this cloud. Here she saw that this cloud was made up of an innumerable host of small individual entities. She heard the voice of God ask "Who desires to be added upon?" Some of these intelligences motioned somehow that this was their desire. These went through what Mom described as a series of schools each dropping out as they would choose whereupon they would recieve a body according to the amount of intelligence obtained. Some becoming spiders, some beasts of the field and others continued until they became spirit sons and daughters of God. One of the greatest things she learned from this was that OUR AGENCY IS NEVER TAMPERED WITH. What we are or become is completely a product of our choice. Even the Sons of Perdition have chosen to become such.

Buddy

This is very interesting. Do you know of Betty Eddy? She had a NDE and told of how, while she was dead and on the other side, she watched the 'atoms' of a creature that died go into a flower...with each atom's 'intelligence' keeping it's memory of where and what it had been before.

Think about that in terms of eternal progression...increasing intelligence through experience etc.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Starsky@May 19 2004, 04:59 PM

Buddy

This is very interesting. Do you know of Betty Eddy? She had a NDE and told of how, while she was dead and on the other side, she watched the 'atoms' of a creature that died go into a flower...with each atom's 'intelligence' keeping it's memory of where and what it had been before.

Think about that in terms of eternal progression...increasing intelligence through experience etc.

Now that is interesting. Each ATOM has it's own intelligence. It actually makes more sense to me because we know we have spirits and before that we were intelligences. But this would mean that our spirits are made up of Billions (or Trillions) of tiny intelligences which could account for the incredible diversity and nuances of our personalities.

[Jenda]

I think that it is really midichlorions. And once we learn to listen to them, we will be able to harness the force to work to our advantage.

May the force be with you! B)

[Guest Chell]

What is midichlorions?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Chell@May 20 2004, 11:24 AM

What is midichlorions?

Ahem. I guess you are not a Star Wars afficionado. B)

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Jenda+May 20 2004, 05:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ May 20 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Chell@May 20 2004, 11:24 AM

What is midichlorions?

Ahem. I guess you are not a Star Wars afficionado. B)

LOL....I didn't know either....

[broadway]

Originally posted by Jenda@May 20 2004, 11:41 AM

I think that it is really midichlorions. And once we learn to listen to them, we will be able to harness the force to work to our advantage.

May the force be with you! B)

HA!

Amazing what parallels one can draw from that movie.

broadway

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Midichlorians were described in Star Wars Episode 1.

Here is someone's definition, based on that movie...

Midi-chlorian - this species of microscopic organism is known to the Jedi Knights as a symbiotic creature that exists within the cells of every living creature. Life in the galaxy is dependent upon the midi-chlorians, although the exact genesis of the microscopic midi-chlorians is unknown. There is no pattern which dictates the concentration of midi-chlorians in a being's make-up, but a higher count of midi-chlorians in a being's cells allows them to touch the Force. As the count increases, so does the being's ability to contact and control the Force, but true mastery of the Force comes only from intense concentration and study. Thus, the Jedi Knights devoted themselves to the study and control of the Force, and developed techniques that could detect high concentrations of midi-chlorians in young infants.

And, from "The Boston Globe":

Midiclorians, as Jinn explains, are microscopic creatures that long ago took up residence in the bodies of humans and all other creatures. They're symbiotic organisms that live in all our cells.

As it happens, all human cells really do contain symbiotic organisms that took up residence in the dim evolutionary past. This is a story that biologist Lynn Margulis has been explaining for many years. These symbiotic organisms are the size of bacteria, quite a bit smaller than regular cells, and they contain their own DNA. They even reproduce inside our cells, dividing just as bacteria do. Cell biologists know them as mitochondria. The singular is mitochondrion - apparently a recent corruption of the term midiclorian used long, long ago.

That is long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away...

[Guest Starsky]

Wow cool...thanks Tao...

So the more you have the more spiritually connected we are? .....lolll

[Setheus]

The Immortal Intelligence

" I have another subject to dwell upon, which is calculated to exalt man; but it is impossible for me to say much on this subject, I shall therefore just touch upon it, for time will not permit me to say all. It is associated with the subject of the resurrection of the dead,—namely, the soul—the mind of man—the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation. I do not believe the doctrine; I know better. Hear it, all ye ends of the world; for God has told me so; and if you don't believe me, it will not make the truth without effect. I will make a man appear a fool before I get through; if he does not believe it. I am going to tell of things more noble.

We say that God Himself is a self-existing being. Who told you so? It is correct enough; but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner upon the same principles? Man does exist upon the same principles. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit into it, and it became a living soul. (Refers to the Bible.) How does it read in the Hebrew? It does not say in the Hebrew that God created the spirit of man. It says, "God made man out of the earth and put into him Adam's spirit, and so became a living body."

The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal [co-eternal] with God himself. I know that my testimony is true; hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? Their relatives and friends are only separated from their bodies for a short season: their spirits which existed with God have left the tabernacle of clay only for a little moment, as it were; and they now exist in a place where they converse together the same as we do on the earth,

I am dwelling on the immortality of the spirit of man. Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it has a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven.

I want to reason more on the spirit of man; for I am dwelling on the body and spirit of man—on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it had no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.

Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.

This is good doctrine. It tastes good. I can taste the principles of eternal life, and so can you. They are given to me by the revelations of Jesus Christ; and I know that when I tell you these words of eternal life as they are given to me, you taste them, and I know that you believe them. You say honey is sweet, and so do I. I can also taste the spirit of eternal life. I know that it is good; and when I tell you of these things which were given me by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, you are bound to receive them as sweet, and rejoice more and more."

[Guest Starsky]

Where did this come from? Did you write it Setheus?

[Ray]

The language appears to be that of Joseph Smith, I think, but the heart of the message comes from Christ.

[Setheus]

It is a quote from JS jr. I found it "Surfing" the net

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

So does that mean God just has more midi-chlorians in his body than we do?

[Guest Starsky]

Cool quote Setheus...thanks for sharing that with us.

Tao...LOL yes...I believe He does...

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Ray@May 24 2004, 05:00 PM

The language appears to be that of Joseph Smith, I think, but the heart of the message comes from Christ.

You are very perceptive Ray!