Holy Ghost question

[Sheelah]

What does it mean in John 7 where it says:

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

because clearly Nephi tells us that the Holy Ghost was operating well before this time?

Nephi 1:

17 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a vision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God—and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come—I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men.

I remember something being said about the Holy Ghost not operating while Christ was on the earth, if so, would that have been just during the 3 years of his ministry?

[WANDERER]

Don't know, but it's an interesting question.

[Stampede]

I do believe they are talkign about the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which is different than the promptings of the Holy Ghost, or his mission.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost is what cleases us from Sin. That could not have an effect untill Christ was glorified. Because it is through the atonement that the Gift of the Holy Ghost basically transfers responsibility of our Sins to Jesus Christ.

but the Hoyl ghost had been working miracles and confirming truth in people since the time of Adam.

But in reality, Sins could not be forgiven until Christ had performed the atonement.

[a-train]

For some reason unkown, during the dispensation of our LORD, the gift of the Holy Ghost was not given until the day of Pentecost. Speculation has been offered that while the Saviour conducted His earthly mission the gift was not given because of His Presence on earth. However, we have no scriptural explanation for the withholding of this gift until Pentecost.

-a-train

[CrimsonKairos]

While Jesus was on the earth, his good works and charitable life formed the witness of his divinity and Sonship.

When Christ was gone, the gift of the Holy Ghost was given to witness to those who had not seen Christ in the flesh.

[Iggy]

While Jesus was on the earth, his good works and charitable life formed the witness of his divinity and Sonship.

When Christ was gone, the gift of the Holy Ghost was given to witness to those who had not seen Christ in the flesh.

Crimson, is this explained in the scriptures? I am not saying you are not right - but I too have wondered about this. It makes sense to me that the Gift of the Holy Ghost would come after Christ's death, but where can I read more about it.

[CrimsonKairos]

That was more my personal opinion than anything else.

I base it on things Jesus said such as Matt. 11:21-24, among others.

Officially, it is speculation on my part, but I also feel a spiritual certainty when I contemplate it.

[Iggy]

In Acts 2 - it tells of the day of Pentacost. That is the first time I can find in the scriptures where it tells about the gift of the Holy Ghost.

38 Then Peter asaid unto them, bRepent, and be cbaptized every one of you in the dname of Jesus Christ for the eremission of sins, and ye shall receive the fgift of the gHoly Ghost.

So that follows what you said- and felt.

[KingDavid]

Sheelah,

We know that the Holy Ghost did come upon Jesus' disciples while he was among them. Two examples. One, when Jesus asked his apostles, whom do men say that I am? And then, after their responses, he said, And whom do you say that I am? And Peter responded, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

Jesus then replied, "Flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father in Heaven". By this he means that the Spirit of God, which is the Holy Ghost, had manifested this truth to him, and to the others.

Also, Jesus essentially said that Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him, had committed the 'unpardonable sin', which is to deny the Holy Ghost. He could not have committed that sin unless the Holy Ghost had given him witness (Judas Iscariot, that is) that Jesus was indeed the Christ.

But from what Jesus said, as you quoted, that the Spirit could not come upon them or be with them while he (Christ) yet tarried with them is evidence that for some reason, apparently the Spirit of God was not bestowed upon Jesus' disciples to the fullest extent that it would be from the day of Pentecost onward.

So, as has been pointed out by others, the gift of the Holy Ghost was apparently not given to Jesus' disciples until the day of Pentecost and thereafter.

Perhaps God the Father had some rule about that which is not explained, but is definitely implied by what Jesus said on the subject.

This does NOT mean that the Spirit of God, which IS he Holy Ghost, had not come and wrought in power upon prophets and saints prior to the Savior's mortal ministry. It just means that there was some rule that God the Father, in his wisdom, had about the influence of two members of the Godhead could have more full time during the Savior's mortal ministry.

Certainly many, including Adam and Eve, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, and many other saints and prophets had the gift of the Holy Ghost prior to the Savior's mortal ministry.

[CrimsonKairos]

What Peter felt that convinced him of Christ's divinity was the power of the Holy Ghost, not the gift thereof. Apparently the power of the Holy Ghost was still active while Christ lived, but the gift was withheld until Christ conferred the gift of the Holy Ghost upon his apostles (which actually took place before Pentecost).

[KingDavid]

What Peter felt that convinced him of Christ's divinity was the power of the Holy Ghost, not the gift thereof. Apparently the power of the Holy Ghost was still active while Christ lived, but the gift was withheld until Christ conferred the gift of the Holy Ghost upon his apostles (which actually took place before Pentecost).

I do not disagree with you at all. But, certainly, the Spirit of God did work on them at some time during the Savior's ministry, as Christ's attribution of Peter's testimony affirms.

Still, though, there was sufficient testimony by the Holy Ghost to condemn Judas Iscariot as a Son of Perdition, as Cain also was.

[CrimsonKairos]

But, certainly, the Spirit of God did work on them at some time during the Savior's ministry, as Christ's attribution of Peter's testimony affirms.

Yep, that's what I said. Spirit of God = Holy Ghost.

[Mahonri]

I have always been taught that when the 2nd Comforter (Christ) is present, there is no need for the Holy Ghost.

We also don't know but that Peter had become a witness of God the Father. To speculate otherwise is just that, speculation.

[Sheelah]

Thanks for the responses. As I reflected on it more and read your responses I realized that to think the Holy Ghost didn't operate before Christ came to earth "makes reason stare" (Eliza Snow, O My Father). And while I'm not real clear on what was going with the HG while Christ was on the earth, he surely would of been available to those such as the Nephi of 3 Nephi to help him prepare for the Savior's visit there.

[Guest AutumnBreez]

Always had three seperate beings: Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, Holy Ghost were always present. Commandments were put in place before Christ came to die for us, Christ came and additional (new) commandments were presented, to repent, be baptised were the first steps. Once Christ was there to lay his hands physically was when it was initiated as a ordinance to be fullfilled by the M. Priesthood.

(you can have a new dictionary with new words and meanings, but the old words will not disappear simply because there are new ones :) )

Isn't God the Same Yesterday, Today, and Forever?

Confirmation