What is a true church?

[WANDERER]

***

[Mountaingirl]

I'm grappling with some concepts that I genuinely don't understand.

I just wanted to find out the perspective on this question:

What is a true church and what makes a church 'true'?

I have the same question. :)

Logically I know that when people say, "I know the church is true" they are speaking of the emotions they feel when they are bearing witness to the truthfulness. However, there is no proof one way or the other for any church, and that is fact. Emotions can't prove something true or false.

A few weeks ago a family member asked me to share my failing testimony with him. I told him I couldn't tell him I "knew" the church was true, I told him that I once "felt" the church was true, but my questions are not being answered. He couldn't answer them either and told me I needed more faith. How can I have faith in something that has lied to me (in my eyes)?

In this sense, what is true for one person isn't true for another. If it works for you and makes you happy it's probably true. If it causes confusion and hard feelings like my case it probably isn't.

It's a matter of perception.

[Iggy]

I'm grappling with some concepts that I genuinely don't understand.

I just wanted to find out the perspective on this question:

What is a true church and what makes a church 'true'?

I wondered that myself too. I know that the description of the Church as in Christs time will be in the New Testament- but I don't know where.

The true church as it was when Christ started it, had Teachers, Deacons, Priests, etc. The Priesthood.

Where oh where are a Scripturian when we need one??

[cgrantreed]

You are asking the same question that millions of people world wide are asking right at this very second. What is it...or Why is it... that people of the LDS faith call this the "true church"? I can't answer from every other members position but I can answer from mine.

Its boils down to an understanding of the whole reason why we are here on this earth. Do you know why YOU are here? What is your place in this world of ours? The Bible itself, the Old and New Testaments, give accounts of records that were commissioned by God through Christ in His prophets of old. These records have been handed down, lost, found, lost again, nearly destroyed, interpreted from one language to another and modified by people of power. Its like assembling a 1000 piece puzzle without the box cover and with 250 of them missing. You can kind of get the picture but its difficult to decipher at times. Take Isaiah for example. Sheesk. Anywho...

God wants us to have the entire picture in life. This was not supposed to be a wild goose chase, we were supposed to have all the information we needed to make the right choices. He said as much in the Bible when he said that there would be more information given in the future. I know that when the earth was created that God gave Adam and Eve the rules of the road. He explained them pretty clearly. They did what they had to do to follow the plan and somewhere along the line Satan muddied the waters and confused the truths. Moses had to be given the 10 commandments to try and straighten it back out. So much time has passed under the bridge since Gods laws and truths were established for the first time in this world and with that, so many "truths" have been manufactured by man. They are built on Gods laws but to suit mans desires, not Gods will in all things.

There are literally hundreds of churches in the world today. Some are based very closely on Gods "true" plan. Some are so far off that God is not even in the process. The "True" church of God is the one that follows the plan that HE himself laid down for the world. You mention faith in the posts here and that is the most important part of the process here. We are required to have faith in God before He will show the importance of His gospel. No faith, you won't ask, He won't answer. It will never be rammed down your throat by Him. You have to use your free will to ask. With that, you also have to be WILLING to receive the answers, however they may come. That is the true part of faith, want the answers and be willing to accept them once proven.

When you ask for them, the answers of confirmation usually come as a feeling. This is the only "proof" that its true and its only good for yourself and no one else. To answer that question of whether the LDS faith is the true church or not it takes first of all faith in knowing that God wants you to know the real truth behind the religious clutter, Second, faith that HE has provided the additional information necessary to fill in the gaps left by the Bible (through additional divinely commissioned documents like the Book of Mormon), third, that His plan is still in effect in the world (prophets still in the world today teaching the whole gospel truth as it was intended). It actually takes a TON of faith to find the whole truth in the world. Satan does not want you to hear it and he will do anything that he can to stop it from happening.

Its starts with baby steps here.Do you want to know the truth? Then you ask for the proof, which takes some reading, praying and asking God to show it to you, and He will if you ask. Then once that confirmation comes, your faith will be built to a point where you will truly know for YOURSELF that what you believe is the truth and that becomes a testimony of "I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true restored gospel of the Lord and I KNOW for myself that I am in the right place, with the right church, that has all the keys and authority of God in its entirety.

There can only be one truth in all things. Joseph Smith had the same question and he asked it of God with deeply humbled intent of his 14 year old heart. God gave him the answer that he requested and he said " Choose none of them". This is the beginning of the restoration of the WHOLE church of God in the latter days that the scriptures foretold. Only you can get the confirmation of that truth for yourself.

I have a testimony of its reality. I could NEVER deny it and will never do so unto death if that is what is required of me. I received this testimony through my faith in God and a firm desire to know what the real truths were, filtering out all the false hopes and dreams of other religions. I know bull when I smell it and I desired for clear the fog in my life. He granted this to me because I asked for it. I am truly blessed in my life to have this sacred witness. If this is what you desire, I ask of you that you pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ for those answers. I testify to you that He will grant that request. Understand though that once you receive this confirmation, you will never be the same. Truth is very powerful... as is Gods love.

Your humble Brother in God

Grant

[Mountaingirl]

You are asking the same question that millions of people world wide are asking right at this very second. What is it...or Why is it... that people of the LDS faith call this the "true church"? I can't answer from every other members position but I can answer from mine.

Its boils down to an understanding of the whole reason why we are here on this earth. Do you know why YOU are here? What is your place in this world of ours? The Bible itself, the Old and New Testaments, give accounts of records that were commissioned by God through Christ in His prophets of old. These records have been handed down, lost, found, lost again, nearly destroyed, interpreted from one language to another and modified by people of power. Its like assembling a 1000 piece puzzle without the box cover and with 250 of them missing. You can kind of get the picture but its difficult to decipher at times. Take Isaiah for example. Sheesk. Anywho...

God wants us to have the entire picture in life. This was not supposed to be a wild goose chase, we were supposed to have all the information we needed to make the right choices. He said as much in the Bible when he said that there would be more information given in the future. I know that when the earth was created that God gave Adam and Eve the rules of the road. He explained them pretty clearly. They did what they had to do to follow the plan and somewhere along the line Satan muddied the waters and confused the truths. Moses had to be given the 10 commandments to try and straighten it back out. So much time has passed under the bridge since Gods laws and truths were established for the first time in this world and with that, so many "truths" have been manufactured by man. They are built on Gods laws but to suit mans desires, not Gods will in all things.

There are literally hundreds of churches in the world today. Some are based very closely on Gods "true" plan. Some are so far off that God is not even in the process. The "True" church of God is the one that follows the plan that HE himself laid down for the world. You mention faith in the posts here and that is the most important part of the process here. We are required to have faith in God before He will show the importance of His gospel. No faith, you won't ask, He won't answer. It will never be rammed down your throat by Him. You have to use your free will to ask. With that, you also have to be WILLING to receive the answers, however they may come. That is the true part of faith, want the answers and be willing to accept them once proven.

When you ask for them, the answers of confirmation usually come as a feeling. This is the only "proof" that its true and its only good for yourself and no one else. To answer that question of whether the LDS faith is the true church or not it takes first of all faith in knowing that God wants you to know the real truth behind the religious clutter, Second, faith that HE has provided the additional information necessary to fill in the gaps left by the Bible (through additional divinely commissioned documents like the Book of Mormon), third, that His plan is still in effect in the world (prophets still in the world today teaching the whole gospel truth as it was intended). It actually takes a TON of faith to find the whole truth in the world. Satan does not want you to hear it and he will do anything that he can to stop it from happening.

Its starts with baby steps here.Do you want to know the truth? Then you ask for the proof, which takes some reading, praying and asking God to show it to you, and He will if you ask. Then once that confirmation comes, your faith will be built to a point where you will truly know for YOURSELF that what you believe is the truth and that becomes a testimony of "I know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true restored gospel of the Lord and I KNOW for myself that I am in the right place, with the right church, that has all the keys and authority of God in its entirety.

There can only be one truth in all things. Joseph Smith had the same question and he asked it of God with deeply humbled intent of his 14 year old heart. God gave him the answer that he requested and he said " Choose none of them". This is the beginning of the restoration of the WHOLE church of God in the latter days that the scriptures foretold. Only you can get the confirmation of that truth for yourself.

I have a testimony of its reality. I could NEVER deny it and will never do so unto death if that is what is required of me. I received this testimony through my faith in God and a firm desire to know what the real truths were, filtering out all the false hopes and dreams of other religions. I know bull when I smell it and I desired for clear the fog in my life. He granted this to me because I asked for it. I am truly blessed in my life to have this sacred witness. If this is what you desire, I ask of you that you pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ for those answers. I testify to you that He will grant that request. Understand though that once you receive this confirmation, you will never be the same. Truth is very powerful... as is Gods love.

Your humble Brother in God

Grant

Wow, a year ago and that very letter could have come out of my head and keyboard. It's amazing how my outlook has changed.

[ztodd]

I'm grappling with some concepts that I genuinely don't understand.

I just wanted to find out the perspective on this question:

What is a true church and what makes a church 'true'?

I think speaking generally of whether a church is true or not is very subjective. If a latter day saint tells you that this church is the only true church, he/she is using a very specific definition of "true church". The Lord says it this way in Doc & Cov 1:30 -

"those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually— "

"The only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" with which the Lord is well pleased - to me this means that it is the one church with true authority and continuing revelation. It's amazing to me that somehow, for whatever reason, I was born into a family under covenant in the restored kingdom of God on earth.. if I hadn't been born in this circumstance, I can't say for sure how I would feel about the church's claim, or what I would do.. but I can't help but feel that I would have done the same thing that I actually did in reality-

That is, that I would have searched the scriptures and the words of the supposed prophets, searched my soul through prayer and meditation, and asked God humbly if he would confirm the church's claim to me. And if God would answer me affirmatively, I would have softened my heart, dropped my defenses, and figured.. If I can't beat 'em, join 'em.

It's not the church of man, but the church of God. That's the ultimate and most important definition of true church.

[Elgama]

i am having similar struggles to Mountaingirl right now my faith is a little flat.

I think you know you have the true church when it helps you to know God better, understand eternity more and feel like you are moving forwards to eternity. If where you are at can't help you reach your full potential its isn't the right place for you to be. I am only holding on because the Lord has blessed me with so many miracles and help in my life that I know this church is where he wants me to be - as a result I need to go.

-Charley

[prisonchaplain]

The most common Christian teachings on this question:

1. The Roman Catholic Church/or Orthodox Churches carry the unbroken Christian tradition and authority.

2. The LDS/Jehovah's Witnesses/Various other groups claim to have restored lost authority and/or truth.

3. There is a universal church made up of true believers in various Christian church communities, and the authority rests in Christ, in his Scriptures, and in the hearts of his followers (and therefore not in church hierarchy).

[ztodd]

The most common Christian teachings on this question:

1. The Roman Catholic Church/or Orthodox Churches carry the unbroken Christian tradition and authority.

2. The LDS/Jehovah's Witnesses/Various other groups claim to have restored lost authority and/or truth.

3. There is a universal church made up of true believers in various Christian church communities, and the authority rests in Christ, in his Scriptures, and in the hearts of his followers (and therefore not in church hierarchy).

I didn't know the JWs believe that. Do you know of a place online where they, or where any other church, make that claim? I only know of the Church of JC of LDS and the Catholics.

[Mountaingirl]

i am having similar struggles to Mountaingirl right now my faith is a little flat.

I think you know you have the true church when it helps you to know God better, understand eternity more and feel like you are moving forwards to eternity. If where you are at can't help you reach your full potential its isn't the right place for you to be. I am only holding on because the Lord has blessed me with so many miracles and help in my life that I know this church is where he wants me to be - as a result I need to go.

-Charley

You know, I am coming to that same conclusion right now. I came here to try to help my testimony, but it did the opposite. Maybe God doesn't want me in this church.

[prisonchaplain]

I didn't know the JWs believe that. Do you know of a place online where they, or where any other church, make that claim? I only know of the Church of JC of LDS and the Catholics.

Such groups will frame the response differently. They will generally emphasize the truth(s) they have restored, and then ask whether God can be pleased with those who reject or oppose those truths.

1. Jehovah's Witnesses: Watchtower Society Official Web Site Opposes Trinity and deity of Christ, engages all active members in gospel 'publishing,' refusal to serve in military or salute the symbols of earthly kingdoms, etc.

2. Embassy of Heaven Church Promotes absolute separation from earthly governments, even refusal to accept social security numbers, drivers licenses, etc.

Some hardline Seventh Day Adventists question how anyone could claim to be a Christian and fail to even keep one of the basic ten commandments.

Some hardliners in the United Pentecostal Church teach that unless you have been baptized in Jesus' name (not by the trinitarian or Godhead formula), and have spoken in tongues (pentecostal-style), then you are not truly saved.

If I had time, I'm sure I could find more sects that are so strong on their particular special doctrines, that they imply that they have the sole truth.

[ztodd]

Of course he wants you in the church Mountaingirl. Don't let anything I or anyone else has said drive you away. We haven't meant to offend you. But are you willing to accept responsibility for your own testimony, and not base it on how you've been offended by others in the church? I know it's hard to do.. but do you know that it is the right thing to do, however hard it is? We're here to support you.

[WANDERER]

I was going to ask that PC...that perhaps group 3 was a little more of a spectrum. The hardline pentecostal stance is what I was taught and where I am from.

SDA give off a strong vibe that unless you have church on Saturday you're doomed, but that may be only to hardline petencostals.

[prisonchaplain]

I was going to ask that PC...that perhaps group 3 was a little more of a spectrum. The hardline pentecostal stance is what I was taught and where I am from.

SDA give off a strong vibe that unless you have church on Saturday you're doomed, but that may be only to hardline petencostals.

As FYI, I have Adventist volunteers coming into our jail who treat me as a brother in Christ. And, I've worked with Oneness Pentecostals who do likewise. So, yes, you experienced the minority. In fact, our major "skeleton" in my Pentecostal fellowship is that only about 30% of our adherents have experienced pentecostal baptism in the Holy Spirit. Trust me, we do not insist that the others are unsaved--or even 2nd class.

BTW, even on this board you'll find soft & hardline. Some folk here are convinced they'll be in the choir with me, up in the Celestial Kingdom.

[WANDERER]

I think there's a spectrum in any church. PC which pentecostal church are you from?

[prisonchaplain]

I think there's a spectrum in any church. PC which pentecostal church are you from?

Assemblies of God. However, you should note that our churches vary quite widely, when it comes to tone and style. Churches in the Pacific Northwest tend to be very moderate in both tone and atmosphere. Our Bible-belt churches in small towns are likely to be louder and 'harder.'

[WANDERER]

I was going to guess AOG. I have been involved in a visiting sense; my sister and her family went in that direction.

On spectrums within churches: there are pentecostal Catholics.

[cgrantreed]

I guess its as it was stated " A matter of perception".

"1. The act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding."

Do you want God or do you want to flounder around lost and confused? I am guessing that confusion is easier though as it seems to be a popular direction. I once chose that path too such as people do from time to time. Volunteered for it actually. Why fight the battle? It seems silly to fight a battle on a front that you can't even see...or can you?

Its also a matter of choice, the whole basis for our being on this earth in the first place. I personally chose to search for the truth so that I could have an anchor in the storms of life; the battles of faceless fronts I guess. I came to realize that my eternal future was in the balance and there is only one power in existence that would always be fighting on my side and that was God. Nobody can make my decisions for me. Only I chose my path. The decision for "true" or not was in the completeness of the gospel. I have never met a "conventional" Christian that had enough answers to suit me. They always seem to just say" throw all caution to the wind and let God take care of it. He is the guide and none of the rest of it makes any sense so don't worry about it". I don't believe in ignorance being bliss so I decided to find out for myself. I don't let anyone elses opinions sway the outcome. Lack of information is as good as none at all in my mind so I did the work on my knees.

The other thing to realize is that "church" is not what this whole mortal probation is about. My eternal salvation has very little to do with the big box. It has everything to do with whether or not i will follow the law and tow the line voluntarily or not. Obedience. I could be a C+ student and go to meet God...however I know that a C+ student only gets to meet Him, I want to dwell with Him forever. None of this mortal world means much to me short of doing it right so that i can go back home with honor.

So its also a matter of perspective. Its completely between you and God in the long run and only you know what you truly believe and truly want in your life. That is the beauty of Gods plan. Its completely up to you. If none of this is helping you to focus on your needs, its because only you can fulfill them.

Its between you and your maker...

Your humble Brother in God

Grant

[WANDERER]

Grant that is another answer.

How do you know it's the true church?: faith and faithfulness.

[inthearmsofsleep]

How do you know if something is of God? Its teachings lead to happiness and doing good to others. Something can be 99% right and 1% false, thus making the whole thing false and incomplete. So far, the basic doctrinal teachings of the LDS church have been 100% for me, and errors have only been the fault of misguided members. The Holy spirit is the only thing that can tell you what is truly right and what isn't without the errors of man, and the LDS church would have gone nowhere if it weren't for the witness that it bears to its faithful members. To feel its witness you have to be in the right frame of mind, right environment, with the right intentions. Some things that are good can distract from things that are better. How do I know that it's true? I haven't researched all the churches of the world. I haven't studied the histories of each nation to find out what is fact and what is not... I haven't looked into what most people stumble on in their search for God's truth... but an UNDENIABLE witness of the holy spirit has told me that it's right. It spoke to my soul without any of the barriers of what being human is all about, with pure feeling and knowledge. It sounds silly, but the reason it's "true"...is because it's true.

[WANDERER]

It's true because it is true....the circle is complete. Thanks Sleep.

[hacksider]

I have the same feeling before I go to mission, I just believe because I grow in this church and I happen to have a borrowed testimony. I think the best thing to do is what my bishop have asked to do. He said that I must gain testimony by reading the scripture especially the book of mormon, and ask God himself if this church is true. I prayed hard for a couple of days. Then I just felt that IT IS THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH. The holy ghost let me feel it. The warmth, sudden gush of joy and something more that really will touch your heart. I can't argue that this is the true church unless you have prayed with sincerest heart and humbly to God and ask for the truth. I know God will answer you, just wait. You will just get confused if you rely on the knowledge given by man.

[inthearmsofsleep]

I have the same feeling before I go to mission, I just believe because I grow in this church and I happen to have a borrowed testimony. I think the best thing to do is what my bishop have asked to do. He said that I must gain testimony by reading the scripture especially the book of mormon, and ask God himself if this church is true. I prayed hard for a couple of days. Then I just felt that IT IS THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH. The holy ghost let me feel it. The warmth, sudden gush of joy and something more that really will touch your heart. I can't argue that this is the true church unless you have prayed with sincerest heart and humbly to God and ask for the truth. I know God will answer you, just wait. You will just get confused if you rely on the knowledge given by man.

Yes. Exactly. Debating over how you know it's true is a complicated thing..because it's not something you can really explain. It's something you can only understand once you've received that witness for yourself.

[rameumptom]

A Church or belief is "true" insofar as it teaches God's truth. That, however, is a very subjective idea, as we do not have a completely objective view from God's eyes. Every church is "true" insofar as it is correct on teachings. And every church is false insofar as it is wrong. This includes the LDS Church, which does not have all the answers.

Roman Catholics see themselves as having the truth passed down from generation to generation. Protestants view that the truth was tainted and needed reformation. The LDS stance is that many gospel truths were lost and needed restoring. While all of them have truth (such as we all use the Bible - IF it is in case the truth - a subjective thing), the question arises as to which holds a higher level of truth, and does that really matter?

Some would say we just need to believe in Jesus and we're saved (except in EVs case, where they add the restriction: except for Mormons and other cults). Others require certain rites or obedience to commandments. Only God knows for certain which of these is most correct, and whether it matters or not.

LDS Restoration teachings tell us that exaltation is primarily based upon Christ's atonement, but also requires priesthood ordinances and obedience. Families can be forever, but only if sealed in a temple by those with the proper authority. Other Christian religions marry "until death do you part." Which one is God's way, or is there another alternative?

We do not pretend to have all the truth. We teach that other religions generally have enough truth to save individuals in a kingdom of heaven/glory. However, to achieve God's highest glories and blessings - a fullness - one must be valiant in seeking and embracing God's truths and priesthood power.

The interesting thing about God is that he does not convert us wholesale. We each have to find our own testimony, and what we are ready, able and willing to receive as truth. Some of the teachings of Joseph Smith are difficult for people to accept or abide by. I have a Bible, why do I need the Book of Mormon? Why must I pay 10% tithing? Why can't I have a drink or a smoke? Why can't my marriage outside the temple be for eternity? In all of this, we must prayerfully seek God's will and mind, and not our own. And we must prepare ourselves to accept whatever His Spirit witnesses to us, as there is no other way in which we can obtain a personal witness of truth - regardless of which church we belong to now (if any).

[prisonchaplain]

I just notice the question title: what is A true church? If we look at the true churches of the New Testament--they all had problems! Some of them struggled with false doctrine, others with false teachers, others with sinful members. Yet, in no case was a church declared outside the realm of God's kingdom. So, there may be more true churches than we all imagine.