The Great And Abominable Church

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Unorthodox+Jun 9 2004, 02:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Unorthodox @ Jun 9 2004, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jun 9 2004, 12:34 PM

The WCC, which is the growing ecumenism of this age has bowed to embrace the corrupt Liberation Theology which came out of the Jesuit order

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is "Liberation Theology"?

Do a google search using "jesuit + liberation theology".

It is a marxist theology (that is really not a theology) that the Jesuits devised based on Christ's teachings in Matthew 25, healing the sick, throwing the money-changers out of the temple, etc. The "theology" states that Jesus came exclusively for the poor and underprivileged and outcast. It states that whoever does not help liberate the poor, underprivileged, those in bondage, are part of the problem, and thus, not Christian, and they target Capitalist America.

And capitalist America falls for it. LOL. The pope has come out against it, calling it heretical. But that didn't stop the Jesuits from continuing preaching and embracing it. It bacame extremely popular in South and Central America, and several of the priests there were caught up in it to the extent of participating in the revolutions in those countries. Nicaragua, etc. And the WCC/NCC contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to that cause, thus aligning themselves with those guerillas regimes and a marxist theology.

And the fact that orders were created to bring governments under control of the Catholic church only emphasizes that concept in my mind. Once governments and world orders are brought under it's control, it is but a half-step away from having enough power and influence to be a pawn of Satan, which it has shown itself to be in the past.

To be honest, it does seems to be the way of the past, but things are not always what they seem.

I understand how the Catholics were trying to gain power in the past...as Ray said, that was the Dark Ages. But today I just don't see this happening. Do you think they are hiding something? What about all the changes made by Pope John Paul II and Vatican II? To me, this seems to be a step in the right direction.

Like I said in an earlier post, the Pope, IMO, is a holy man, and tries to, as much as possible, do things to contain the problems that arise, but it was Vatican II that gave rise to the acceptance of Liberation Theology. It was the present Pope who recognized the dangers and called it heretical.

But the machinery was set in motion hundreds of years ago when the Jesuit order was organized and given it's mission. It was sanctioned by the pope of that time.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Those wacky commies!

[Guest Unorthodox]

Was Jesus a capitalist?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Unorthodox@Jun 9 2004, 03:11 PM

And, yes, of course the Catholic church is going to claim it is a fraud, similar to (and I hate to point it out) how the LDS have covered up the Avenging Angels and have apologized for the doctrine of polygamy.  If it is an embarassment, sweep it under the rug.

Why is it ok for the LDS to do this, but not the Catholics?

It isn't OK for either to do it. But we all have our skeletons. Who knows why they choose to hide embarassments instead of openly admitting them and admitting the mistakes of them?

It might be an embarassment for a while, but it sure beats the heck out of having to explain something that was swept under the carpet 100 years ago, or 500 years ago, because then it just looks like you are trying to hide something.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Unorthodox+Jun 9 2004, 02:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Unorthodox @ Jun 9 2004, 02:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Jun 9 2004, 01:05 PM

The RLDS church, which has been interested in joining these organizations for quite a while have, indeed, dropped the unique beliefs of the church to conform to that requirement. 

They no longer embrace the BoM as foundational scripture to the church, it has been demoted to supportive.

They no longer profess belief in having a prophet for a leader (we are to be a prophetic people instead of a people with a prophet.)

They no longer profess to be the true church, instead, all churches are equal, and our priesthood is not the only priesthood authorized by God.

It is not hard to see where an organization like that is bound.

I thought you were RLDS? Do you disagree with those changes?

Maybe you mentioned this already, but what church do you believe is God's true church?

The WCC (together with the NCC) force all those who join with them to abandon any beliefs or concepts that make them "unique". 

I can see why the LDS church might consider that a bad thing. Their unique doctrines are supposed to be what makes them the one true church. From that point of view, I guess the WCC could be considered a great and abomindable church.

But I thought the current LDS belief is that the other Christian churches were just incomplete, not evil. In that case, wouldn't the WCC just be a loosely organized confederation of incomplete churches? That doesn't sound "great and abominable" to me.

I am RLDS and I do not agree with the changes. That is why I have chosen to align myself with those who left the church who still believe in the restored gospel.

I believe that the RLDS is God's true church, but as the scripture I quoted from the D&C points out, the Lord's true church will become corrupt and He will visit His own house first with His vengeance, and from there it will spread to other churches.

And the reason the LDS church would think that it is bad is the reason those of us who are more fundamental in the RLDS church believe it is bad.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Maybe its all symbolic?

[Guest Unorthodox]

...and there is no G&A Church?

[Faerie]

Originally posted by Unorthodox@Jun 9 2004, 05:41 PM

However, if one wants to point out those mistakes to prove that a church is "great and abominable", then...I hate to say this...but...the LDS Church would be one of the top candidates to be the Great and Abominable Church. And so would the RLDS if they were bigger, because they share some of that controversial history.

I have the luxury of not believing in the Great and Abominable Church, so I don't worry about it. As I said above, I think it is more likely a symbol of corruption in general.

Hence why we were taught in Seminary that there is NO "real" G&AC...it's SYMBOLIC....there is no certain creed or denomination...it's a symbolic teaching pitting the followers of Christ against the followers of Satan...it's really that simple! We must remember that a good majority of our beliefs come from symbolic origins...one reason why so many had a hard time following Christ because he didn't just come out and say it, he taught in allegory and symbols...

[Ray]

Well, since there is a “real” church of Christ on this Earth, with all the truth and priesthood power that Jesus will give us, why can’t there be a “real” church of Satan on this Earth, to distort all the truth and oppose it with the power that Satan can give them?

It still wouldn’t minimize the influence of churches that taught some or much of the truth, or those that taught some or many distortions of the truth, they just wouldn’t be as good as the best or as bad as the worst of them.

Btw, which approach do you think would work best for Satan… to teach something about some gods other than Jesus Christ and our heavenly Father, or to teach about them but distort the truth?

[Jenda]

To teach them but distort the truth.

[Ray]

Heh, yeah, and Satan’s strategy isn’t limited to one approach, is it. His goal is simply to keep people from discovering the truth, so as long as you fall for anything he leads you to believe, he’s got you.

Still, though, there would be some advantages to having one or several large institutions under his influence, because many people are drawn to particular institutions simply by the number of how many other people belong to it. And hey, if a person’s family and friends belong to a particular institution, why would they even bother to shop around?

[Guest Unorthodox]

Maybe Satan wrote the Book of Revelations?

[Guest Ruthie-chan]

Originally posted by Unorthodox@Jun 10 2004, 12:42 PM

No! It's the Mormons!

Wait, didn't you know?

Mormon's aren't Christian.

Duh.

Nevermind the fact that they believe that Christ is their Savior.

Geez, they're like the devil in the New Testament who knew Christ but worked against him.

Duh.

/sarcasm

(Yes, I've encountered people who believe this.)

[Guest Starsky]

I think you have a good point there TAo...or Unortho.....lol

I don't know what to call you anymore....

Anyway...I believe the final thing will be the condition of our hearts and how much we are living according to what we 'know'....

[Guest Unorthodox]

If he exists...

[Ray]

Originally posted by Unorthodox@Jun 10 2004, 11:42 AM

I still think my theory makes the most sense. 

The best strategy for Satan was to write a passage in The Book of Revelations (revising what John really wrote) to include something about a "Great and Abominable Church".  This caused religious warfare and persecution during the last millenium, and today it leaves us with hundreds of Christian sects looking at each other with suspicion. 

It's the Catholics! 

No!  It's the Mormons! 

No!  It's the WCC!

This is exactly what Satan would want.  Christians fearing each other.

Well, I can almost agree with that, except that instead of thinking that we fear each other, I think we fear what we do not know. And the thought that some people may know something that we don’t know scares us too… unless we know the truth, that is. Then we only want to reach out with love, by trying to help other people know what we know too, and doing whatever else we can while showing kindness and patience.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger… anger leads to hate… hate leads to suffering. A [saint] must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. – Yoda (revised a little) :)

[Guest Unorthodox]

Satan would want to divide Christians in this way.

[Guest Unorthodox]

...if he exists...

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Unorthodox+Jun 10 2004, 11:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Unorthodox @ Jun 10 2004, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Jun 10 2004, 11:53 AM

I think you have a good point there TAo...or Unortho.....lol

Oh, just feel free to keep calling me "Tao"

Done. :)

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Unorthodox@Jun 10 2004, 03:19 PM

Edited by Unorthodox

Since we are using Star Wars analogies, I think the Great and Abominable priesthood will be like this:

There can be only two. A master and an apprentice.

I guess that is not really big enough to be called "great" but it could still be abominable.

Maybe they are just really big guys?

Yeah....or maybe you look under their robes and you find millions of little people and the guy is on stilts...LOL:D

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Unorthodox+Jun 10 2004, 04:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Unorthodox @ Jun 10 2004, 04:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ruthie-chan@Jun 10 2004, 12:46 PM

Wait, didn't you know?

Mormon's aren't Christian.

Duh.

Nevermind the fact that they believe that Christ is their Savior.

Ed Decker (author of The God Makers) believes that Mormons are part of a Satanic conspiracy.

According to him, the Mormons pretend to be Christian in order to recruit Christians.

Meanwhile, the Masons are supposedly recruiting politicians, businessmen, etc.

I'm serious...if the Book of Revelations had never mentioned a Great and Abominable Church, people would be alot less paranoid.

Those are interesting, but totally stupid theories....

But I think you have something when you say that people would be less paranoid (or more introspective) if they didn't have a wicked entity to blame all wickedness on.

However, I believe that there is no entity at all...I believe the G&A is people....individual people who have made the wrong choices.

[Guest Unorthodox]

Or midichlorians? A church of evil midichlorians?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Unorthodox+Jun 10 2004, 06:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Unorthodox @ Jun 10 2004, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Starsky@Jun 10 2004, 06:56 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Unorthodox@Jun 10 2004, 03:19 PM

Edited by Unorthodox

Since we are using Star Wars analogies, I think the Great and Abominable priesthood will be like this:

There can be only two.  A master and an apprentice. 

I guess that is not really big enough to be called "great" but it could still be abominable. 

Maybe they are just really big guys?

Yeah....or maybe you look under their robes and you find millions of little people and the guy is on stilts...LOL:D

Or midichlorians? A church of evil midichlorians living in two human bodies?

ROFL!

[Jason]

"The Catholic Church was almost successful, at one point, in bringing world dominion under their control, and it is close again."

I suppose I'll jump in again (sigh).

At no time in the history of the world has the Catholic Church ever been even CLOSE to controling the world. They've not even been close to controling EUROPE! Heck, they never even controled Italy!

That said, Im no longer seriously considering the Catholic position. Not that it's a bad church, but for now I have too many doubts.

Now, will everyone please take a little time and do some historical RESEARCH! Please!

And Travler...I'd go with Cal...What plain and precious truths were removed? What the heck are you talking about?

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Cal@Jun 7 2004, 08:54 PM

Name one?  - I will gladly name a few. 

1.  The full Book of Enoch - a part of which is quoted in the Book of Jude verses 14-16

2. The Dead Sea Scroll (4Q246) titled “The Son of God”

3. 49 Hebrew words missing between the last verse of Chapter 10 and the first verse of chapter 11 of 1 Samuel.

4. Text Changes in Isaiah 38:11

5. The Gentile prophet of the Last Days as described in the Testaments of the Patriarchs.

Trav--I asked for "plain and precious TRUTHS", not books....again, what are these "plain and precious truths" that we can't do without?

Since you did not want any references but only the missing doctrine:

1. From the Book of Enoch - One of the prime reasons for the destruction of Antediluvian Society is that societies acceptance and support of same sex marriage.

2. DSS "The Son of God" scroll - That the Son of G-d is a separate G-d from G-d the Father of Heaven.

3. Missing words in Samuel. Spiritual blindness is the result of disobedience to covenants.

4. Text changes in Isaiah - indicates man cannot see G-d the Father but can see the Son.

5. Testaments of the Patriarchs. The great Gentile prophet of the Last Days will be a High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek.

This is by no means all from the plane and precious truths in missing Bible Scriptures I have provided more than the one you asked for. Sorry you are not more versed in the recent discovery of ancient manuscripts and that you stumble over the possibility that something important is missing. How else can you explain such large scale disagreement on the entire spectrum of Christian Doctrine. Let me ask one question in return. Can you name a doctrine or ordinance agreed by all claiming to be Christian that has no disputes on how it should be interpreted and understood?

The Traveler