The Passion Of The Christ

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Anyone heard an LDS reaction to Mel Gibson's new movie "The Passion of the Christ"?

I can imagine The Church will be conflicted over it. On the one hand it shows the sacrifice Christ made for us in great detail. On the other hand, it is so violent, it earned an "R" rating.

What are your predictions for The Chuch's reaction to this movie?

[AFDaw]

Would the church really come out with a statement about it?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by AFDaw@Jan 23 2004, 10:56 AM

Would the church really come out with a statement about it?

Maybe not...the Pope originally made a comment saying "it is as it was" or something like that...seeming to endorse it. But then the Vatican denied it yesterday.

That is what made me think about it.

Maybe GBH would be just as cautious as the Pope is being.

But...I did hear that yesterday the film was shown to many Christian and Jewish groups (or leaders?) to find out the reaction. The Christians generally loved it. The Jews generally were concerned about anti-semitism. I wonder if the film was shown to any LDS leaders?

[Guest Starsky]

hmmm I never thought about the racial implications. Bummer. Personally I liked it. It was a bit more violent than I can stand...but it was reality based...

As for the church...I think we will be hearing something about it in stake conferences and general conferences....

Our stake is having conference Feb 15th.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Peace@Jan 23 2004, 11:53 AM

hmmm I never thought about the racial implications.

Bummer. Personally I liked it. It was a bit more violent than I can stand...but it was reality based...

You already saw it? I thought it wasn't being released anywhere until February?

I saw the previews. I liked the use of Aramaic and Latin. Made it feel realistic.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Peace@Jan 23 2004, 11:53 AM

hmmm I never thought about the racial implications. Bummer. Personally I liked it. It was a bit more violent than I can stand...but it was reality based...

As for the church...I think we will be hearing something about it in stake conferences and general conferences....

Our stake is having conference Feb 15th.

You've already seen it Peace. It's not coming to the big screen until Feb. 25th, how did you see it so soon?

M.

[Guest Starsky]

Sorry...I saw extended previews on a trailor (sp) ...I also have heard and seen two morning reviews which had even more scenes shown. What I saw in the previews were extended takes of the entire event of Christ's arrest, interogation, and crucifixsion.. It was grusome.

They also showed parts where Christ was tempted and struggled with temptation....and not just while he was fasting, but all during his ministry...

They said that these parts were going to be very contraversial. Sorry...I saw so much of this movie on preview...

I liked the fact that it seemed presented in a strictly factual way...not really biased like others put out by churches.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Ok, that explains it. I saw an extended trailer too.

From what I heard it is supposed to be the most accurate version, according to what it says in the Bible, with the violent parts extended to emphasize the suffering.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Jan 23 2004, 02:55 PM

From what I heard it is supposed to be the most accurate version, according to what it says in the Bible, with the violent parts extended to emphasize the suffering.

It was really hard for me to watch...but I would think it has to be the most accurate...

[Guest estump]

I am not sure the church will say anything one way or the other. If they did an accurate movie on the BoM, it would be rated R as well. I am sure it will be done well. Mel Gibson doesn't do anything half-way. James Caviezel is one of my three favorite male actors and I didn't even realize or recognize him as I watched the trailer. I admittedly cried just watching that!!!!!!!! We no longer have T.V. in the house because I am not stupid enough to pay for nothing to be on when I actually want to watch T.V. I seriously need to now invest in a newspaper....I had no idea this movie was even coming out until TS posted it.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by estump@Jan 23 2004, 05:01 PM

We no longer have T.V. in the house because I am not stupid enough to pay for nothing to be on when I actually want to watch T.V....

Erin - Are you saying that there is absolutely nothing on TV nowadays that you enjoy watching? Not even the sitcoms? Or a really good movie?

M.

[Guest estump]

Not when I have the time to watch ! I have two toddler's running around. I do like Comedy Central, Discovery Channel.History Channel and AMC....but they go on an extended package which we simply can't afford right now. I love to watch movies and I can afford a new DVD every few weeks....I love older movies as well. So I am missing AMC and the stations that play older movies. Our basic cable rate is retarded! I was expecting like 20 bucks a month and it's 40. We're still trying to pay off Carolina's hospital bills and buy a new car and save to buy a home at some point in our lives. Cable is a luxury right now. WE have the stupid atennae and we can't even get the WB to come in where we are located. It's not worth trying to make the picture clear. We were spoiled for a few years getting free satellite from DH's work, but now it's someone else's turn. We always knew this day would come! I've been w/out T.V. before in my life and I actually find it less stressful in my home w/out it. DH and I were commenting on that the other day. The kids aren't fighting over what to watch and we are doing more as a family.

Anyhow, most anything nowadays comes out on DVD at some point. If I really want to watch a series, I can wait for it. The only thing that has been difficult is keeping up on the 2004 campaign...but maybe that's a blessing in disguise. LOL!

[Lindy]

Subject: Paul Harvey's comments on the movie "The Passion" by Mel Gibson

Paul Harvey Comments on "The Passion" by Mel Gibson

The majority of the media are complaining about this movie. Now Paul Harvey tells "The rest of the story" and David Limbaugh praises Gibson.

Most people would wait and see a movie before giving the reviews that have been issued by the reporters trying to tell all of us what to believe.

Paul Harvey's words: I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled to have been invited to a private viewing of Mel Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had also read all the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a Jewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to the influence. I have a life long, deeply held aversion to anything that might even indirectly encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language or actions.

I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion", held in Washington DC and greeted some familiar faces. The environment was typically Washingtonian, with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words. The film was very briefly introduced, without fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, to the very human and tender portrayal of the earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the Cross, until the final scene in the empty tomb, this was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike anything I have ever experienced.

In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making and an artistic triumph, "The Passion" evoked more deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction within me than anything since my wedding, my ordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I will never be the same. When the film concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of "movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were shaking indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure there was a dry eye in the place. The crowd that had been glad-handing before the film was now eerily silent. No one could speak because words were woefully inadequate. We had experienced a kind of art that is a rarity in life, the kind that makes heaven touch earth.

One scene in the film has now been forever etched in my mind. A brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to fall again under the weight of the cross. His mother had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she ran to him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as a child, falling in the dirt road outside of their home. Just as she reached to protect him from the fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded adult face. Jesus looked at her with intensely probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all things new." These are words taken from the last Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelations. Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and the wounds, that earlier in the film had been so difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all over His body, became intensely beautiful. They had been borne voluntarily for love.

At the end of the film, after we had all had a chance to recover, a question and answer period ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the compliments were effusive. The questions included the one question that seems to follow this film, even though it has not yet even been released. "Why is this film considered by some to be "anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a question that is impossible to answer. A law professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He raised his hand and responded "After watching this film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realize that my sins killed Jesus" I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If there were, I would be among the first to decry it. It faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way.

Those who are alleging otherwise have either not seen the film or have another agenda behind their protestations. This is not a "Christian" film, in the sense that it will appeal only to those who identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It is a deeply human, beautiful story that will

deeply touch all men and women. It is a profound work of art. Yes, its producer is a Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longer acceptable behavior than we are all in trouble. History demands that we remain faithful to the story and

Christians have a right to tell it. After all, we believe that it is the greatest story ever told and that its message is for all men and women. The greatest right is the right to hear the truth.

We would all be well advised to remember that the Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever changed the history of the world. The problem is not the message but those who have distorted it and used it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to censor the message, but rather to promote the kind of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's filmmaking masterpiece, "The Passion."

It should be seen by as many people as possible. I intend to do everything I can to make sure that is the case. I am passionate about "The Passion." You will be as well. Don't miss it! "

[Lindy]

This is a commentary by DAVID LIMBAUGH about Mel Gibson's very controversial movie regarding Christ's crucifixion. It, too, is well worth reading.

MEL GIBSON'S passion for "THE PASSION"

How ironic that when a movie producer takes artistic license with historical events, he is lionized as artistic, creative and brilliant, but when another takes special care to be true to the real-life story, he is vilified. Actor-producer Mel Gibson is discovering these truths the hard way as he is having difficulty finding a United States studio or distributor for his upcoming film, "The Passion," which depicts the last 12 hours of the life of Jesus Christ.

Gibson co-wrote the script and financed, directed and produced the movie. For the script, he and his co-author relied on the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as well as the diaries of St. Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) and Mary of Agreda's "The City of God."

Gibson doesn't want this to be like other sterilized religious epics. "I'm trying to access the story on a very personal level and trying to be very real about it." So committed to realistically portraying what many would consider the most important half-day in the history of the universe, Gibson even shot the film in the Aramaic language of the period. In response to objections that viewers will not be able to understand that language, Gibson said, "Hopefully, I'll be able to transcend the language barriers with my visual storytelling; if I fail, I fail, but at least it'll be a monumental failure."

To further insure the accuracy of the work, Gibson has enlisted the counsel of pastors and theologians, and has received rave reviews. Don Hodel, president of Focus on the Family, said, "I was very impressed. The movie is historically and theologically accurate." Ted Haggard, pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., and president of the National Evangelical Association, glowed: "It conveys, more accurately than any other film, who Jesus was."

During the filming, Gibson, a devout Catholic, attended Mass every morning because "we had to be squeaky clean just working on this." From Gibson's perspective, this movie is not about Mel Gibson. It's bigger than he is. I'm not a preacher, and I'm not a pastor," he said. "But I really feel my career was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost was working through me on

this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to evangelize."

Even before the release of the movie, scheduled for March 2004, Gibson is getting his wish. "Everyone who worked on this movie was changed. There were agnostics and Muslims on set converting to Christianity...[and] people being healed of diseases." Gibson wants people to understand through the movie, if they don't already, the incalculable influence Christ has had on the world. And he grasps that Christ is controversial precisely because of WHO HE IS - GOD incarnate. "And that's the point of my film really, to show all that turmoil around him politically and with religious leaders and the people, all because He is Who He is."

Gibson is beginning to experience first hand just how controversial Christ is. Critics have not only speciously challenged the movie's authenticity, but have charged that it is disparaging to Jews, which Gibson vehemently denies. "This is not a Christian vs. Jewish thing. '[Jesus] came into the world, and it knew him not.' Looking at Christ's crucifixion, I look first at my own culpability in that." Jesuit Father William J. Fulco, who translated the script into Aramaic and Latin, said he saw no hint of anti-Semitism in the movie. Fulco added, "I would be aghast at any suggestion that Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic." Nevertheless, certain groups and some in the mainstream press have been very critical of Gibson's "Passion." The New York Post's Andrea Peyser chided him: "There is still time, Mel, to tell the truth." Boston Globe columnist James Carroll denounced Gibson's literal reading of the biblical accounts. "Even a faithful repetition of the Gospel stories of the death of Jesus can do damage exactly because those sacred texts themselves carry the virus of Jew hatred," wrote Carroll. A group of Jewish and Christian academics has issued an 18-page report slamming all aspects of the film, including its undue emphasis on Christ's passion rather than "a broader vision." The report disapproves of the movie's treatment of Christ's passion as historical fact. The moral is that if you want the popular culture to laud your work on Christ, make sure it either depicts Him as a homosexual or as an everyday sinner with no particular redeeming value (literally). In our anti-Christian culture, the blasphemous "The Last Temptation of Christ" is celebrated and "The Passion" is condemned. But if this movie continues to affect people the way it is now, no amount of cultural opposition will suppress its force and its positive impact on lives everywhere. Mel Gibson is a model of faith and courage."

--------------------------------------------

I received this from a friend, and just wanted to share the above commentaries with you....

[Guest Starsky]

Wow...thank you for posting these reviews! :) Isn't it amazing how differently this was seen?

[Guest curvette]

If it is true to the reviews, how could the brethren object to it? Simply the R rating though will make it unviewable for all strict LDS. The church has leaned increasingly towards pretty, fluffy art and away from realistic unpleasantries. So has our entire culture though. I admit that I'm not sure I have the stomach for it.

[Guest estump]

I won't be missing it.

R rating or not...some movies need to be attended and this is one of them. If I lived anywhere else outside the USA, I'd actually get to pick and choose for myself what I saw. The USA is the only place w/ such rating systems.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by curvette@Jan 24 2004, 09:51 AM

If it is true to the reviews, how could the brethren object to it? Simply the R rating though will make it unviewable for all strict LDS. The church has leaned increasingly towards pretty, fluffy art and away from realistic unpleasantries. So has our entire culture though. I admit that I'm not sure I have the stomach for it.

realistic unpleasantries

.

curvette,

I like that term ....I call it Life As We Know It

Sometimes we can't get to know others at all if we don't open our minds to the realities of what they see, do or live. It doesn't mean that we have to adapt to that situation of their reality....it just gives us a better understanding of what is real for them.

My two cents worth.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Jan 24 2004, 01:29 PM

curvette,

I like that term ....I call it Life As We Know It

Sometimes we can't get to know others at all if we don't open our minds to the realities of what they see, do or live. It doesn't mean that we have to adapt to that situation of their reality....it just gives us a better understanding of what is real for them.

My two cents worth.

I agree. It's like the holocaust footage. It's very hard to watch, but it's important to know what human beings can be capable of if evil ambition goes unchecked.

[Behunin]

Does anyone know if Gibson was accurate in the way Christ was nailed to the cross? This is something that the Catholics might not know or refuse to accept.

[Tr2]

2 things:

1) Many LDS will not like this movie because it depicts the Jesus of the bible, not the Jesus of Mormonism. It depends of which Jesus you go to the theatre expecting to see the story of. Remember that it's ok to think differently from your church leaders.

2) If this film displays violence, good. Does anybody think that crucifixion is a pleasant thing? Finally somebody wants to make an accurate film. Will they show Jesus gasping for air on the cross like he would have been? Or will it show when they broke his legs, which was standard for all crucifixions? People do not appreciate things until they experience the realism of the event. Many people had no appreciation for WWII until Saving Private Ryan came out. Most didn't care about Somalia in 1993 until Black Hawk Down came out. People do not appreciate reality until they can see it. Considering that we don't crucify anyone these days maybe a movie will help communicate how horrible it actually was. I've read, in great detail, about what happened at those crucifixions and it was horrible. Some of the best films ever made have had R ratings. I'd rather have an R rated movie that portrays a real even rather than one of those nice Jesus films that did everything but have Him sing and dance while on his way to death.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jan 25 2004, 01:15 AM

1) Many LDS will not like this movie because it depicts the Jesus of the bible, not the Jesus of Mormonism. It depends of which Jesus you go to the theatre expecting to see the story of. Remember that it's ok to think differently from your church leaders.

If this comment was aimed at me, I take acception. I am not the sterotypical "mormon" who blindly follows whatever a churchleader says just because they say so. So if you are taking a shot at me and my question, back off. I think, read, breath, live, etc.... for myself, as I am sure many (not all) LDS people do.

The Jesus of the Bible is the same Jesus in the BoM. There is only one Christ. This is probably contrary to what some other religions or people believe about the LDS church. But that is of their own doing and thinking, not based in reality.

So now, does anyone who has seen or read reviews about Gibson's movie that would indicate that he was accurate in the way Christ was nailed to the cross?

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Behunin+Jan 25 2004, 08:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Jan 25 2004, 08:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Jan 25 2004, 01:15 AM

1) Many LDS will not like this movie because it depicts the Jesus of the bible, not the Jesus of Mormonism. It depends of which Jesus you go to the theatre expecting to see the story of. Remember that it's ok to think differently from your church leaders.

If this comment was aimed at me, I take acception. I am not the sterotypical "mormon" who blindly follows whatever a churchleader says just because they say so. So if you are taking a shot at me and my question, back off. I think, read, breath, live, etc.... for myself, as I am sure many (not all) LDS people do.

The Jesus of the Bible is the same Jesus in the BoM. There is only one Christ. This is probably contrary to what some other religions or people believe about the LDS church. But that is of their own doing and thinking, not based in reality.

Thank you Behunin!

I am not the sterotypical "mormon"  who blindly follows whatever a churchleader says just because they say so.  So if you are taking a shot at me and my question, back off.  I think, read, breath, live, etc.... for myself, as I am sure many (not all) LDS people do.

Me either....I think for myself, and I won't back down on what I believe...to those who have a problem with how we look at things...it just makes me sad that they can't comprehend that There is only one Christ.

My Jesus...Your (their) Jesus = OUR Jesus

I only wish people could open their hearts and their minds to accept that fact.

[Behunin]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Jan 25 2004, 11:44 AM

I am not the sterotypical "mormon"  who blindly follows whatever a churchleader says just because they say so.  So if you are taking a shot at me and my question, back off.  I think, read, breath, live, etc.... for myself, as I am sure many (not all) LDS people do.

Me either....I think for myself, and I won't back down on what I believe...to those who have a problem with how we look at things...it just makes me sad that they can't comprehend that There is only one Christ.

My Jesus...Your (their) Jesus = OUR Jesus

I only wish people could open their hearts and their minds to accept that fact.

I could tell from your posts that you think for yourself. You are an intelligent woman. You GO!! :)

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

"My Jesus" is just a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of the True Jesus.