"Mark of Cain"

[Francine]

The problem with racism is that if you really get down to it, the Bible is full of it. Jesus told his disciples to not preach to the Gentiles, only to the house of Israel.

That's not racism, that's ethnocentrism. The Jews and Palestinians are almost totally identical by race, especially in the 1st Century before the post-Roman Diaspora. Perhaps Christ wanted to maintain control of his message while he lived by keeping all his apostles nearby. Because after the resurrection Christ did tell his disciples to teach all nations.

[Aelswyth]

Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "According to the doctrine of the church, the negro because of some condition of unfaithfulness in the spirit — or pre-existence, was not valiant and hence was not denied the mortal probation, but was denied the blessing of the priesthood."

He must have been using the term very loosely, because as I stated it is NOT part of our doctrine.

There r many racist sections of the book of mormon.

For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.

How is this racist? It's simply stating that God turned their skin a different color so that they would be set apart from the others and not intermingle with them. It would work the other way, too. Imagine the whole world is only black African tribal people. No one has ever seen a white man before. Then, someone does something wrong and to keep them separated, God turns them white and gives them Caucasian features and habits. (Actually, this does happen in the book of Exodus in the Bible, where God turns Miriam's skin pure white as a punishment for her speaking badly about Moses' Ethiopian wife). Naturally, the rest of the "normal" people would view this person as strange and ugly (since every ethnicity has its own beauty standards) and would treat him as an outcast. In fact, we have numerous historical records of how one kind of human perceived another kind they'd never seen before. First contact between people of different ethnicities has almost always resulted in opinions like "they're ugly", "they're not really people", "they're weird", etc. Nothing new there.

And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.

Same thing, how is this racist? It's simply describing the way things were for most of human history. Very few cultures in the world have been "multi-cultural" until modern times. The ones that were multi-cultural were only that way because they were empires that used foreigners as slaves (Greece, Rome, Egypt, imperial Britain, early America). Even among the Norsemen, one of the most democratic and freedom-loving societies in the ancient world, "dark" people were considered slaves, because the only dark people there were the slaves (and that meant not only people with dark skin, but people with dark hair and brown eyes, too!). Very rarely in those great empires a few of those slaves might become free men and live among the citizens. But mostly, even though people of different ethnicities may have visited, in terms of marriage and family, they kept to themselves.

If thats not racist i dont kno wat is.

Plus god burning the betrayers skin black in the big battle between god and the devil is in the book of mormon.

Sorry, no, it's not. Where did you get that information?

[rameumptom]

That's not racism, that's ethnocentrism. The Jews and Palestinians are almost totally identical by race, especially in the 1st Century before the post-Roman Diaspora. Perhaps Christ wanted to maintain control of his message while he lived by keeping all his apostles nearby. Because after the resurrection Christ did tell his disciples to teach all nations.

Okay, but the term 'racism' today is often used for ethnocentrism, as well. The Jews did not see themselves as related to the Canaanites. In fact, they sneered at the Samaritans, who were part Jewish and part other. Clearly, the Israelites viewed themselves as farther apart than just ethnicity, but more a race apart from all others, even though they were of the same race.

[Ray A]

In regard to this subject I quote an excerpt from Eugene England's book Dialogues With Myself, in which he records a meeting with Joseph Fielding Smith discussing his (JFS) stand on the "black policy":

It came to my attention that Joseph Fielding Smith (then President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) had published an article in the Church News about this matter and in the process had essentially contradicted one of his assumptions in his earlier discussion of the matter in The Way to Perfection, then calling blacks an "inferior" race and now specifically saying they were not. Two of my friends who were concerned about the same matter and, as I did, looked at President Smith as the nearly official scriptorian of the Church, made an appointment for us to see him. President Smith was not very anxious to see us since he was being baited from many sources at that time, but after some assurances of our intentions he gave us some time and was particularly gracious when one of my friends, moved I think by the prayer we offered together before going, began the interview by confessing in tears that his original motives for coming had been somewhat contentious.

I told President Smith about my experiences with the issue of blacks and the priesthood and asked him whether I must believe in the pre-existence doctrine to have good standing in the Church. His answer was, "Yes, because that is the teaching of the scriptures." I asked President Smith if he would show me the teaching in the scriptures (with some trepidation, because I was convinced that if anyone in the [p.132] world could show me he would). He read over with me the modern scriptural sources and then, after some reflection, said something to me that fully revealed the formidable integrity which characterized his whole life: "No, you do not have to believe that Negroes are denied the priesthood because of the pre-existence. I have always assumed that, because it was what I was taught, and it made sense, but you don't have to believe it to be in good standing, because it is not definitely stated in the scriptures. And I have received no revelation on the matter." Then it was, as we continued our discussion, that he said, with what seems to be irrefutable logic, that if, as he believed, the reason for the denial was the pre-existence then there could be no expectation that blacks would receive the priesthood in his life, because that would not be fair to those who had been denied it up to that point. [The logic of this also clearly means, of course, that if blacks were ever given the priesthood in this life, that fact alone would prove the "pre-existent choice" notions false. But, in fact, even since the 1978 revelation, some Mormons continue to believe and teach those disproved and dangerous ideas about race, etc., being conditioned upon previous righteousness. Note added, 1983]

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/dialogues/chapter12.htm#cross

[Moksha]

Even among the Norsemen, one of the most democratic and freedom-loving societies in the ancient world, "dark" people were considered slaves, because the only dark people there were the slaves

The word slave comes from Slavs, which were a group of white Europeans who had the unfortunate tendency to be captured in battle.

[Aelswyth]

The word slave comes from Slavs, which were a group of white Europeans who had the unfortunate tendency to be captured in battle.

Exactly. I'd forgotten that little tidbit, thanks Moksha. :)

[Hemidakota]

I would think with the Church anxious to share their message with the entire world, that it would be wise to lose all traces of the skin curse nonsense. It smacks of racism through and through and would repel many pootential listeners who would otherwise share in our Gospel message.

Well, no one gets their red flags flying over the claim that the native american who's skin is dark is a decendant of the lamanites who's skin was turned dark due to the wickedness of their fathers. Fear of political correctness wont spread the gospel any faster than pure truthful history. If my skin was turned white because my fathers did something good or bad I'd want to know that. I wouldnt want my ego or feelings to be spared just because other's were afraid that I'd call them a racist. I have quite a bit of native blood in my veins and that part of my family tree does not shame me in the least. I am very very proud of them in fact.

thanks for your comments. The othe posters on the thread drove right past me. ha ha

Kudos...my wife has the same blood flowing in her veins [her father's genealogy]. I have great affection for the natives of this land.

I can't understand either why some worry over these issues as to the fear of men or what is 'political correctness'? The Truth remains the Truth, no matter what had transpired over few hundred to a few thousand years ago.

[Hemidakota]

Okay, but the term 'racism' today is often used for ethnocentrism, as well. The Jews did not see themselves as related to the Canaanites. In fact, they sneered at the Samaritans, who were part Jewish and part other. Clearly, the Israelites viewed themselves as farther apart than just ethnicity, but more a race apart from all others, even though they were of the same race.

Wasn't Hitler of the same race?

[Hemidakota]

The word slave comes from Slavs, which were a group of white Europeans who had the unfortunate tendency to be captured in battle.

Slavery exist even today throughout the world...but I concur with Aelswyth, sometimes we need to be reminded.

[Hemidakota]

I thought Cain married his brother's daughter (his niece), not his sister...?

If you are reading it from Moses chapter 5 verse 28, I would say yes:

Moses 5:28 And it came to pass that Cain took one of his brothers’ daughters to wife, and they loved Satan more than God.

Book of Moses 5:41 And Cain was shut out from the presence of the Lord, and with his wife and many of his brethren dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Moses 5:3 (2-3).And from that time forth, the sons and daughters of Adam began to divide two and two in the land, and to till the land, and to tend flocks, and they also begat sons and daughters.

Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Other Non-canonized works:

Book of Jubilees 16:4 And Cain took ’Âwân his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch

Footnote: 51:3 i.e. "iniquity" (Heb. ’āwen). Another daughter, ’Azûrâ (= "well guarded"), was born later. Cain married ’Âwân and Seth ’Azûrâ. There is great divergence as to these names in later writers . According to Pirḳe de R. Eliezer, Cain's wife was his twin-sister (xxi.).

Book of Jasher: 1:34 And Cain knew his wife in those days, and she conceived and bare a son, and he called his name Enoch, saying, In that time the Lord began to give him rest and quiet in the earth.

[lilered]

The actual 1978 Church Declaration allowing black males to hold the Priesthood may be viewed at the following:

LDS Newsroom - 1978 Official Declaration