Church History Questions

[Guest User-Removed]

3. Quinn's apparent unemployability stems, not from the quality of his scholarship, as you falsely and disgustingly claim, but rather because he chose to specialize in Mormon history and all significant academic jobs specializing in Mormon History are primarily funded by Mormon interests and his 'dissident' status and corpus of work turn off those interests.

Your post is dishonest and ugly and uniformed.

__________________

Sadly...when you're capable of making sense...I might discuss it with you....till then...ADIEU

[Guest User-Removed]

Let's see.... how to put this delicate?

1. You are lying about the reasons for Quinn's excommunication - flat out lying.

2. You obviously haven't read New Mormon History. It is a series of articles written by some of the cream of the crop of LDS scholars:

Leonard Arrington, highly respected official Church Historian and past Director of the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute for Church History at BYU. First president of the Mormon History Association

BH Roberts, LDS Apostle and assistant Church Historian

Jan Ships, professor of history and religious studies at Indiana University, Perdue, former President of the Mormon History Association and most respected non-LDS, LDS scholar in the world.

Ronald Walker, professor and senior research historian for the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute for Church History at BYU.

James B. Allen, former assistant Church Historian, Lemuel Redd Professor of Western History at BYU

Thomas G. Alexander, professor of History at BYU, director of the Charles Redd Center for Western Studies, past president of the Mormon History Association.

etc

3. Quinn's apparent unemployability stems, not from the quality of his scholarship, as you falsely and disgustingly claim, but rather because he chose to specialize in Mormon history and all significant academic jobs specializing in Mormon History are primarily funded by Mormon interests and his 'dissident' status and corpus of work turn off those interests.

Your post is dishonest and ugly and uniformed.

Snow...When you stop foaming at the mouth...I might be interested in responding....

[Snow]

Snow...When you stop foaming at the mouth...I might be interested in responding....

I could care less if you respond. I have no respect for people who don't know what they are talking about and zero tolerance for dishonesty.

The book I referred to as codswallop was written by the best LDS scholarship including honored BYU professors, Church Historians (called by the Brethren) and a prophet, seer and. revelator.

The rest of your post is pure bull.

[Maureen]

...Tell me, are you more comfortable siding with the Homosexual agenda...or the Lord's?

Just curious...

Are you MyDogSkip, as a sinner, specifically in the way of "bearing false witness", casting stones?

If I had to choose between the integrity of Mr. Quinn and the dishonesty of yourself, I choose Mr. Quinn.

M.

[Snow]

If I had to choose between the integrity of Mr. Quinn and the dishonesty of yourself, I choose Mr. Quinn.

M.

So I've spent 4 or 5 hours in lectures of Dr. Quinn and talked to him personally for maybe 30 or 40 minutes a couple of times. In all that time Dr. Quinn has never been dishonest or malicious with me.

I barely spent 30 seconds reading the posts of MyDogSkip and, well, the results haven't been so good.

[Guest User-Removed]

So I've spent 4 or 5 hours in lectures of Dr. Quinn and talked to him personally for maybe 30 or 40 minutes a couple of times. In all that time Dr. Quinn has never been dishonest or malicious with me.

I barely spent 30 seconds reading the posts of MyDogSkip and, well, the results haven't been so good.

Good thing you're a "female"...Lest Quinn might havge invited you to visit him during "office hours"...

I love your type...praise the Apostate...condemn the Apostle...bwahahahahaha

I fertilized my entire garden yesterday with your malicious Bandini...

[Guest User-Removed]

Are you MyDogSkip, as a sinner, specifically in the way of "bearing false witness", casting stones?

If I had to choose between the integrity of Mr. Quinn and the dishonesty of yourself, I choose Mr. Quinn.

M.

AH...Maureen...those who side with the Apostates always banter the "sinner" line...it's still as laughable today, coming from you...as it was coming from a Pharisee.

Here's the bottom...I simply posted my views on the subject. You and your buddy snow, are the one's who became unhinged. Not surprising...given you'd rather embrace an Apostate...and scorn an Apostle.

Here are the facts...Quinn is a self acknowledged homosexual. Quinn was ex'd for that homosexuality. Quinn has written "lies" claiming that many in the early Church were homosexuals like he is.

If you don't like my views on your Apostate god...so be it...after all that's what Agency is for...so you can be free to be wrong.

[Dale]

I am not sure he lies. He might have some logic and reasoning problems due to reading one to many sources. I am thinking of calling the disorder the Jerald and Sandra Tanner Syndrome. The last book i read of his was Early Mormonism and the Magic World view. I just thought he over related sources to his subject that early Mormons probably never saw. I can't judge what he wrote recently without reading it.

I got the idea that some of these scholars forced the LDS Church to ex-communicate them. I heard specifically that he refused to listen to anyones advice to tone it down.

[Snow]

Good thing you're a "female"...Lest Quinn might havge invited you to visit him during "office hours"...

I love your type...praise the Apostate...condemn the Apostle...bwahahahahaha

I fertilized my entire garden yesterday with your malicious Bandini...

I certainly hope you are not LDS. Someone so dishonest, bigoted and uniformed is a bad example of what we hope to be. If you are LDS, I can only hope that your parents are doing what they can to make a decent Latter-day Saint out of you.

BTW, fair notice: I don't typically moderate the posts of those I debate with - conflict of interest - even so, I won't tolerate dishonesty and bigotry on this board.

[Dale]

I do not judge Quinn's scholarship or goodness on his homo-sexuality. I enjoyed reading the book of his that i did read.

[Snow]

You can be certain that MyDogSkip has not read any of Dr. Quinn's books.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I do not judge Quinn's scholarship or goodness on his homo-sexuality. I enjoyed reading the book of his that i did read.

I agree with your viewpoint Dale. How does the fact of someone's homosexuality make them less of a historian?

Was David's slaying of Goliath any less real or beneficial because of his desire for Jezebel?

[Guest User-Removed]

I certainly hope you are not LDS. Someone so dishonest, bigoted and uniformed is a bad example of what we hope to be. If you are LDS, I can only hope that your parents are doing what they can to make a decent Latter-day Saint out of you.

BTW, fair notice: I don't typically moderate the posts of those I debate with - conflict of interest - even so, I won't tolerate dishonesty and bigotry on this board.

Your arrogant and petty threats mean nothing to me...your foul and abusive manner, demonstrate the egregious cretin that you are.

I shall take my leave for a while from this thread, so that your filth and lies can dominate it.

Further, I will take this up the ladder. Someone of your ilk, ought not to be allowed to moderate anyone...since by the lies and attacks you've put forth on me...you've demonstrated what a lowlife you yourself can be.

Thank you in advance tho for the entertainment value of your posts...I suspect you are nothing more than an Apostate in training...

[Heather]

I can understand that people have different opinions of writers and historians, but please leave all the name calling and judgments out of it. These personal attacks are uncalled for.

[Guest User-Removed]

I can understand that people have different opinions of writers and historians, but please leave all the name calling and judgments out of it. These personal attacks are uncalled for.

Amen, Heather...thanks for your prompt response...and as always...your voice of reason!!!!

[Moksha]

Sometimes it takes society a while just to understand the merit of great artists, writers and historians. They might not create or write what we are used to and so it takes us a while to adjust our perspective to understand exactly what it is that they have contributed.

[Elphaba]

Sometimes it takes society a while just to understand the merit of great artists, writers and historians. They might not create or write what we are used to and so it takes us a while to adjust our perspective to understand exactly what it is that they have contributed.

Well said, Moksha.

I, myself, have spent many an hour wondering how long it will be, after I have passed on, before the world discovers my genius. It certainly ain't happenin' here.

Elphaba

[Guest User-Removed]

Are you MyDogSkip, as a sinner, specifically in the way of "bearing false witness", casting stones?

If I had to choose between the integrity of Mr. Quinn and the dishonesty of yourself, I choose Mr. Quinn.

M.

Truly sad...when someone claiming to be LDS...chooses the Sodomites over the Saints...

[Aphrodite]

Truly sad

Whats truly sad MyDogSkip is an alleged Christian with a bigoted and judgemental attitude such as yours. No wonder LDS get a bad name with members like that. You can disagree with homesexuality, without spewing venom at an individuals work based on his lifestyle choice. Thats pure immaturity.

[Guest User-Removed]

Well...Coming from the UK, I don't expect you to understand. Lifestyle choices are important. When he was hired by BYU he agreed to abide by the Doctrines of the Church. Last time I checked, homosexuality or the practice there of was not a doctrine of this Church.

I find it amazing the number of "so called Latter Day Saints" on this site willing to die for the likes of a D. Michael Quinn...yet, they're sooo full of venom of an Apostle like Boyd K. Packer.

I merely made an observation concerning books and history...and was met with all manner of filthy comments...As President Lee once said to Elder Packer...Which way are you going to look????

[Aphrodite]

So now you stoop to making comments based on someones culture. Thats not doing much to show you're not immature. What has coming from the UK or any country got to do with ANYTHING? An excuse used for a weak argument. And who said anything about dying for Quinn? I certainly never said that nor would do it. I am not full of venom for Boyd K Packer either. Get your facts straight-Typical coming from an American.

[Guest User-Removed]

Aphrodite...Why don't you read all the posts in this thread, so that you can at least grasp the context of the discussion. Your desire to defend sodomites and attack me...make you look as silly as that PM you folks had, who was George Bush's newest best friend.

My facts are straight. Everything I posted is the factual truth. Amazing how the UK was once the backbone of the Church, to see how you new converts have descended.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Well...Coming from the UK, I don't expect you to understand. Lifestyle choices are important. When he was hired by BYU he agreed to abide by the Doctrines of the Church. Last time I checked, homosexuality or the practice there of was not a doctrine of this Church.

I'm from the UK and we have the same church and the same moral standards. Of course lifestyle choices are important but it doesn't mean that someone isn't an accurate historian just because his person sexuality leaves a lot to be desired. It is possible for one not to affect the other.

[Guest User-Removed]

I'm from the UK and we have the same church and the same moral standards. Of course lifestyle choices are important but it doesn't mean that someone isn't an accurate historian just because his person sexuality leaves a lot to be desired. It is possible for one not to affect the other.

Quinn has ceased to be a "factual historian"...

[Guest User-Removed]

Let me post a couple of excerpts from a wikipedia article on Quinn:

Same-Sex Dynamics among 19th-Century Mormons

Main article: Homosexuality and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints#Michael Quinn

Quinn has publicly argued that homosexual relationships, between both men and women, were quietly accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its leadership up until the 1940s. This theme has arisen in Quinn's The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power and is the central topic of Same-Sex Dynamics Among Nineteenth-Century Americans: A Mormon Example. Several LDS scholars have disputed Quinn's work, calling it a distortion of LDS history and saying he completely misrepresented the facts. They deny any acceptance from previous leaders of homosexuality, suggesting that Quinn conflated an absence of early Church proscriptions of homosexuality with tacit acceptance of same, and state the current leadership of the church “is entirely consistent with the teachings of past leaders and with the scriptures.”[4]

"Mr. Quinn's personal life contributed to his estrangement from the church. The father of four was divorced in 1985 and came out as a homosexual in 1996 when he published a book about same-sex friendships and romances in 19th-century Mormonism. The church condemns homosexual behavior. Mr. Quinn says he still believes in the "fundamentals" of Mormonism but doesn't practice the faith." Daniel Golden, "Scholar of Mormon History, Expelled From Church, Hits a Wall in Job Search Trying to Avoid ‘Minefields,'" Wall Street Journal, April 6, 2006,

I've posted a link to a Maxwell Institute review of Quinn's work.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php?filename=MTIwMjQwMDM1OC05LTIucGRm&type=cmV2aWV3

Now...I already know that a great many of you would prefer the fabrications of an Apostate to the truth of the Church. This link is a clear indictment of the author Quinn.

Further, I've posted a link to a FARMS article about the distortions of Quinn:

A Response to D. Michael Quinn's Homosexual Distortion ofLatter-day Saint History - FARMS Review

Finally...here is the wikipedia link...Plenty pro and con on Quinn there....

D. Michael Quinn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia